GM to Invest in Next-Generation Battery Facility That Will Lower EV Costs, Accelerate

[Richard]

I'm not sure how it works as a rental, but the Tesla app has navigation and trip planning that will tell you where to charge and how long it will take if you are driving a long way. The Chevy OnStar app for the Bolt does the same thing.

It would be an up sell,the car rental is extremely competitive,so they rely on up sells.

Internet connection - very expensive
Unlimited toll road package
Airport Pick up fee - $75 even if a friend picks you up at the airport and brings you to the car rental agency.
Insurance

Oooooo you want to help save the planet,rent this EV for an extra $75 per day.

Rental car companies have zero to gain by renting out EVs outside of emotion based marketing.

Simply because they do not spend a dime out of pocket in fuel costs.

[oladub]

For Tesla Model S which has a 263 mile charge-

"Currently, most Tesla Superchargers can now recharge up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes"

"Here’s a breakdown of the charging methods and approximately how long each take to fully charge a Tesla from being completely dead:

• Level 1 AC [[120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours
• AC Level 2 [[Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours
• Level 3 DCFC [[Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes"

One good place to have a large Tesla supercharger station would be in the vicinity of an airport next to a McDonalds and a public bathroom. Get that stuff done and you're ready to go when you roll into the airport.

I have a level 2 charger in my garage which works fine for my needs at night when I'm sleeping. I did use a level 3 charger twice at Walmart's along I-94. No problem. I received a phone call inside of Walmart to let me know that my 80% charge was complete before I was done shopping.

I don't worry about the battery on fire issue. Of 140,000 Bolts on the road, 12 have had that problem. Of 2020 models like mine, I think there has only been one battery that caught fire. Although 46,000 Americans died in car accidents last year, no one has died because of a defective Bolt battery. I'm wondering if the oil industry isn't promoting a measure of fear mongering.
An average of 152,300 vehicles catch fire in the US every year [2014). Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths.

[Richard]

^ I did delve into that whole battery thing a little more,it appears as though LG buys the actual cells from outside sources,the ones made in the states and I believe Taiwan was the other one,has no issues,the ones that were sourced out of China were the ones that spontaneously combusted.

I am sure there is way to determine which batteries contain which cells.

Personal experiences with the whole battery charging right now will be a whole different story in the future,look at how many chargers are currently at Walmart and most charging stations.

Because of the amp draws they have to be placed close to the building,otherwise you have to increase the wire sizes the further away from the source you go,copper wire gets very expensive really fast.

Take your experience today were there are few EVs actually on the road comparatively and add 50-100-500 more vehicles into the picture.

Just on the basis of the copper wire,the world cannot mine enough to supply that demand that fast and the demand would throw the price up through the sky.

Even places like Walmart has 480 volts coming in as a supply,they use that already,add 500 charging stations,no way they could do that.

As it stands now,large parking lots like a Walmart super center would most likely would need to add a sub station in order to supply the needs.

I deal with restaurants and connivence stores ,a majority are already maxed out power supply wise,there is no way they can add the additional demand of even 5 fast chargers.

Not saying it cannot be done,but realistically in order to meet the demand of even 5 fast chargers on a large scale,we would be looking at spending billions just to upgrade the power to millions of businesses.

First off it would require transformers,which are no longer manufactured in this country and the world wide supply has been hurting for many years,with cities waiting months on back orders.

Now kick in charger demand.

In theory Tesla is an IPhone on wheels and they can air charge a iPhone without plugging it in,maybe that is the plan in the future.

We can come up with all the advanced technology we want,but at the end of the day,it still has to be manufactured with none technology materials and those materials can only be supplied at a certain rate.

As we are seeing now with parking lots filled with new automobiles that are totally worthless without that critical little chip,take one piece out of that complicated pile of bits needed to make that technology function and you have a brick.

That is the issue though,they are focused on EVs and how to pump millions of them into society tomorrow,without addressing the fact that they need to be recharged on a grid that everybody knows can barely handle daily needs as it is.

One would think the prudent thing to do would be to prepare the grid first before it gets taxed even more,instead of taking the wait and deal with it later approach,at that time there will be a lot of dead battery EVs sitting around with no alternative modes of transportation in place.

I test drove a 2021 F250 SD yesterday,the difference between the 2019 in technology and gizmos is insane,I still have not figured out how to use 1/2 the stuff on the 2019,why do we really need all of that stuff in the first place,just because we can?

I think by 2050 which is actually a more realistic goal,cars will be floating above the surface powered by another source,but sense trillions are available now,might as well soak that up first.

[Richard]

Copy and paste from WSJ

it turns out there’s also a pot of subsidy gold behind the Hertz decision to buy 100,000 Teslas for its car-rental fleet.Tesla CEO Elon Musk says he isn’t giving Hertz a discount on the reported $4.2 billion order. But he doesn’t need to because the House reconciliation spending bill includes a 30% tax credit for “qualified commercial electric vehicles.”

The text doesn’t clearly define what is a “qualified commercial electric” vehicle, but our sources say Hertz’s Teslas would likely make the cut. The credit could save Hertz $1.26 billion and make a Tesla almost as cheap for Hertz to buy as a Toyota Camry.

More section 8 Tesla’s motoring about,see how much money flows when you go green?

I wonder how much in incentives I could get if I developed a can of “green paint” ?

Thats is the irony of it all from a taxpayers perspective,not only do we have to cover the increased costs that come with the phasing out fossil fuels,on top of that we have to pay another cost for private companies to make the transition into and produce the future products that they will sell to us only at a profit,because we already covered the losses.

[Richard]

This is an interesting twist when it comes to fighting over taxpayer dollars.

The US House of Representatives is currently working on new proposed legislation that would change the federal rebate offered on electric vehicles to entice more people to transition. Under the new plan, credits for electric vehicles up to $12,500 per vehicle would be available with a big caveat. It’s this caveat leading many automakers to oppose the federal rebate plan.
According to the plan, $4500 of the $12,500 rebate would only be available on vehicles built in the US using unionized labor. Another $500 of that credit would only be available on vehicles used batteries built in the US. Under the current proposed legislation, vehicles will have to be built in the US starting in 2027 to qualify.

https://www.slashgear.com/some-autom...ates-31697632/

[Wheels]

For Tesla Model S which has a 263 mile charge-

"Currently, most Tesla Superchargers can now recharge up to 200 miles of range in just 15 minutes"

"Here’s a breakdown of the charging methods and approximately how long each take to fully charge a Tesla from being completely dead:

• Level 1 AC [[120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours
• AC Level 2 [[Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours
• Level 3 DCFC [[Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes"

One good place to have a large Tesla supercharger station would be in the vicinity of an airport next to a McDonalds and a public bathroom. Get that stuff done and you're ready to go when you roll into the airport.

I have a level 2 charger in my garage which works fine for my needs at night when I'm sleeping. I did use a level 3 charger twice at Walmart's along I-94. No problem. I received a phone call inside of Walmart to let me know that my 80% charge was complete before I was done shopping.

I don't worry about the battery on fire issue. Of 140,000 Bolts on the road, 12 have had that problem. Of 2020 models like mine, I think there has only been one battery that caught fire. Although 46,000 Americans died in car accidents last year, no one has died because of a defective Bolt battery. I'm wondering if the oil industry isn't promoting a measure of fear mongering.
An average of 152,300 vehicles catch fire in the US every year [2014). Automobile fires were involved in 10% of reported U.S. fires, 6% of U.S. fire deaths.

This is just one senecio of hundreds you may encounter driving long distance.

[Richard]

The rate was $8 just for plugging in then 50 cents per kWh after that. I was just testing it out so I only stayed for about 10 minutes. That 20 miles of charge cost me over $10, which at over 50 cents per mile is a lot more costly than gas.”


Consequently Tesco are now beginning to introduce faster 22 and 50KW chargers. But these are “priced in line with market rates”, probably similar to the 35p/KWh charged by InstaVolt.
There is simply no way Tesco could give away £10 of electricity free to every customer. Nor could they afford to spend £20K for every charger installed. A typical Tesco supermarket with, say, 10 chargers would cost £200K.

Boris’10-Point Plan pledges £1.3bn for charging infrastructure, but most of this appears to be for the 6000 high-powered chargers promised for motorways and trunk roads. [[I would guess we are looking at at least £100,000 each, plus associated infrastructure. I have seen costs of £250,000 for the really fast chargers)


It is hard to see much money left over for local chargers. A million 50KW chargers, which is probably the minimum we would need, would cost at least £20bn, even before we count the cost of digging up roads and upgrading power cables.
Who will pay for that?

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.word...se-of-reality/

So that is an example of how the UK is dealing with it,a country that you can pick up and set down in under the footprint of the state of Florida.


Anybody really think as they say,7-11 can just add chargers,the $245,000 investment they would have to do for each store which totals billions considering the amount of locations they have.

That does not even include the infrastructure requirements just to supply the power to the chargers.

It is easy to have an argument now when there are free chargers floating about,just remember somebody have to invest millions in order to stick them there and there is no free ride and they will be looking for a some kind of return in the future.

So nothing can be argued or based on as it is today.

[Wheels]

California has mandated all buses be electric by 2040. To bad they can’t keep the one they have on the road.

https://la.streetsblog.org/2021/10/0...-from-service/

https://www.google.com/search?q=cali...&client=safari

[detmsp]

This is just one senecio of hundreds you may encounter driving long distance.

You know that gas pumps use electricity too, right?

[softailrider]

You know that gas pumps use electricity too, right?

Gas stations on every corner and at every highway exit. Not problematic like finding a charging station.

[Wheels]

You know that gas pumps use electricity too, right?

Ever notice gas pumps are on an elevated island and on every corner?

[Ray1936]

Some very long [[and tiring) posts from a lot of you.

On the other hand, I'm 85 and my days are very well numbered. So I don't much give a shit about the situation or what some blabbermouths have to say about it.

So there. Anyone for a game of backgammon?????

[Zacha341]

^ Or maybe a sip of one of those boxed wines you keep on hand? I'll have a glass wid yah!

[Richard]

Some very long [[and tiring) posts from a lot of you.

On the other hand, I'm 85 and my days are very well numbered. So I don't much give a shit about the situation or what some blabbermouths have to say about it.

So there. Anyone for a game of backgammon?????

You do not even have a lawn,in that sense, to be telling others to get off.

I guess you could say - Get off of my rocks!

Hell I am 61 and I will be dead before it all kicks in also,but they are looking for a way to pay for it right now and raise estate taxes etc.,so it does effect you even more so when they implement the perceived capital gains tax based on what you may gain in the future.

Wait until they start calling what is left of your pension an entitlement and subject to a green tax.

If they get creative,they can figure out 1000 ways to impact your bottom line tomorrow.

Kinda hard to argue with the fact that they like to play with peoples hard earned pensions at will.

Really think 6 billionaires are going to cough up trillions of dollars,it’s going to be everybody working or not reaching into their pocket,you cannot hide from em.

[bust]

Do Detroit automakers recklessly innovate?
No. They err too conservative.
They say electric; oladub drives a Bolt.
When they and "lefties" agree...

Opposed there's so much blather, the "flood the zone with shit" variety.
Note the author; skip the shit.
I save my time for something useful.
Don't waste energy.

[Richard]

Lol

Aries K
Ford Pinto
Chevy Vega,I had one and really liked it.
Dodge Omni
Toyota Starlet
The first Hyundai’s
Suzuki Samari - At least they stuck a tag on that which clearly read - Vehicle life expectancy of 50,000 miles.

Lets convert gasoline motors into Diesel and stick them in cars and see what happens.

Meh,one gets the jist of automakers failure to innovate at the purchasers demise.

90% of what Detroit and other manufacturers built from the 70s to the mid 90s was junk.

Most of that junk was a direct result of trying to comply with government emission standards in a short amount of time,we have been down this road before.

Just like all of the consumers that were scammed to the tune of millions of dollars simply by saying -No you cannot mix R12 with 134a and it will cost you $1200 - $2000 in order to convert your car over to ozone safe 134A ,so many people went into debt while giving up perfectly good vehicles because it cost more to convert them.

All the dealers were doing was screwing the new fill fittings onto the old style and filling it up with 134A without converting nothing.

Thank you for doing your part in saving the planet that will be $1200 when you could have had it done for less then $50 at the time.

Code speak for -Bend over we like green.

25% of all of this is actually about doing things to lesson environmental impact,the rest is all about latching onto opportunity and the free flow of money that it brings and really has little to do with saving the planet in that sense.

The first solar collector was actually built in the late 1700s,here we are 300 years later after spending billions of taxpayer dollars and still cannot come up with an economically feasible solar system for the masses.

Now they say screw the billions,that is chump change,let’s make it trillions,that money just does not fall out of the sky,it has to come out of somebody’s pocket - Who’s ?

The billionaires? No they are the ones that became billionaires by going green,they are not giving it up.

The poor ? Yea sure.

Who does that leave left that has funds that they can transfer up to the top?

They already transferred it up from the bottom,who is next?

[Gistok]

Some very long [[and tiring) posts from a lot of you.

Hehehehehe no comment... Zacha341 pass the box please...

[detmsp]

The first solar collector was actually built in the late 1700s,here we are 300 years later after spending billions of taxpayer dollars and still cannot come up with an economically feasible solar system for the masses.

I'm not sure we're actually spending billions of taxpayer dollars on solar... but I do know it is the single cheapest source of electricity we have.

[Wheels]

I'm not sure we're actually spending billions of taxpayer dollars on solar... but I do know it is the single cheapest source of electricity we have.

Its a little more complicated then that.

https://www.lazard.com/media/450784/...120-vfinal.pdf

[Wheels]

I'm not sure we're actually spending billions of taxpayer dollars on solar... but I do know it is the single cheapest source of electricity we have.

This is just a reliable as your bs chart and much more realalistic.

[detmsp]

Its a little more complicated then that.

https://www.lazard.com/media/450784/...120-vfinal.pdf

Well sure, this is complicated stuff! But that seems to show that solar [[as long as we are talking about utility power plants not home installations) is generally cheapest, with wind and gas combined cycle [[TBH I'm not sure what that is!) giving it a good run for the money.

Also note that the data you posted is significantly older. The graph I showed indicates that solar overtaking wind as the cheapest source was a new development in 2020. Your report is from 2018 [[and is likely based on data from previous years).

[detmsp]

This is just a reliable as your bs chart and much more realalistic.

Seriously? We're posting memes now? I mean if you've got an end to end environmental impact analysis of different energy sources, that would be fascinating to see. But that ain't it.

Also, the conversation was whether solar is economically feasible. What does this have to do with that?

[Wheels]

Seriously? We're posting memes now? I mean if you've got an end to end environmental impact analysis of different energy sources, that would be fascinating to see. But that ain't it.

Also, the conversation was whether solar is economically feasible. What does this have to do with that?

Did you read my post? What you posted was MEME! no facts just trash.
The comparison was the point.

Also it does relate to the cost of energy and nobody wants to include but just keep them blinders on.

[detmsp]

Did you read my post? What you posted was MEME! no facts just trash.
The comparison was the point.

Also it does relate to the cost of energy and nobody wants to include but just keep them blinders on.

I posted a graph from wikipedia that is backed up by data. And the data you posted pretty much mirrored that data. I really don't understand how you posted something showing that solar is pretty much the cheapest energy we have, but contest me saying that. It seems like you just want to argue and not listen to the data... not even the data you posted yourself.

[Richard]

It is irrelevant that the cost of solar is the cheapest,what is relevant,is it economical to supply the masses of home owners of 100% sustainable reliable electricity,even after 200 years of being in existence.

I live in Florida and it would supply my needs 45% of the time.
In this state it is illegal to have your house 100% off grid and to keep it as occupied you must remain connected to the grid.

They quoted me $28,000 which would only supply 45% of my current usage,they do not like it when you run the A/C.

My current electric bill is $145 peak summer months,and now when it is freezing cold at 60 degrees my bill will drop less then $100.

It would take me 28 years before the system paid for it self the panels die at 10 years?

So before it has even showed me a return in the 28 years it will cost another $8000 to replace the panels.

That is paying $37,000 just so I can say,I got solar that does not even meet my needs,nice.

You could say ,that’s saving $5000 by going solar,but it is not because it is only covering 45% of my needs and you could take that same money and put it into a money market account or Tesla stock and walk away with a heck of a lot more in 28 years.

Besides I would not feel comfortable with the taxpayers having to support my electrical bill,next I will be looking at food stamps and a new EV at the taxpayers expense,not the way I was raised anyways.

It is easy to say you are saving money when everybody else is covering the loss.