Raining in Detroit - Expressways and Homes Flooded

[MikeM]

The sewerage system you guys have is a travesty.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ne/5619216001/

This is what happens when you decide to design a system to handle a one-hour, ten-year rainfall, and use statistical analysis over 30 years to determine that rainfall to be about 1.8", and then it rains nearly 4". What do you expect to happen?

[Ray1936]

Nice thing about homes in Las Vegas is that they don't have basements. But, then, we don't have rain, either. Go figure.

[Really....nearly all homes here are built on concrete slabs.]

[Jimaz]

Nice thing about homes in Las Vegas is that they don't have basements. But, then, we don't have rain, either. Go figure.

[Really....nearly all homes here are built on concrete slabs.]

I believe you.

Phoenix was similar to Las Vegas in many ways. I was told if you wanted a basement you could have one but you'd have to blast through the natural caliche concrete to build it. Understandably, no one bothered.

So I really envy this guy:

• Colin Furze's Bunker Project Episodes

[Honky Tonk]

This is what happens when you decide to design a system to handle a one-hour, ten-year rainfall, and use statistical analysis over 30 years to determine that rainfall to be about 1.8", and then it rains nearly 4". What do you expect to happen?

So, you can't handle a "100 year rain", you can't handle a "1000 year rain", you can't handle a "one-hour, ten-year rainfall", can't tell there's a leak spraying the breaker box, and you can't tell there's no electrical power going to the pumps. And still, you guys are getting paid to do a "job"? Are you hiring? Because I believe I'm more than qualified to work there. Maybe not, I'd have a hard time coming up with excuses each time my department failed miserably.

[Lowell]

I've been around long enough to witness a few cycles of rain, flooded expressways and basements, and varying lake levels across the decades. Enough to create the quip, "You know you're from Michigan if you've had your basement flooded."

This is the worst of them but if the pattern holds true this will pass, years without issue will follow, memories will fade, and then, pow, it comes back and folks act all surprised and outraged.

I seriously hope our neglected drainage infrastructure will be addressed this time but, short of some Netherlands-level effort, can it even be done?

The major victim areas, Dearborn Heights, the Eastside-Grosse Pointes, and Lake St. Clair shoreline will need that degree of change. Those areas likely face degrees of abandonment as homeowners give up.

From 32 Years ago...


"Sundown" | Acrylic on Canvas MicroPointillist | 60x48 inches | 150 x 120 cm | Collection of Henry Ford Hospital System | Lowell Boileau 1989

[Zacha341]

^ Hah! That was me in that yellow hatchback thing. Not.

I had few hatchy's, but never drove thru water beyond 3 inches on a curb.

Awesome painting!

[Gistok]

The major victim areas, Dearborn Heights, the Eastside-Grosse Pointes, and Lake St. Clair shoreline will need that degree of change. Those areas likely face degrees of abandonment as homeowners give up.

Fortunately for us in the far eastern burbs north of 9 Mile, the Chapaton Pumping Station at 9 Mile & Jefferson is a Godsend. If the rain is too much to pump to Conners Creek in a swift manner, then Chapaton Station goes into backup mode... which is put the water into the 5 million gallon underground storage tank, chlorinate it, and release the storm/sewage into Lake St. Clair, thus saving all the homes any basement backup.

It's terrible for the environment and health, but the swift waters of the lake and Detroit River send the tainted water far downstream [into Lake Erie and eventually over Niagara Falls].

Coming up with a fix to that will cost even more millions. But a bigger issue for Macomb County is the problem with the "12 Towns" of Oakland County sending their sewage overflow into Macomb County's Red Run Drain... and beyond into the Clinton River and eventually Lake St. Clair... closing all the beaches.

[Dumpling]

So, you can't handle a "100 year rain", you can't handle a "1000 year rain", you can't handle a "one-hour, ten-year rainfall", can't tell there's a leak spraying the breaker box, and you can't tell there's no electrical power going to the pumps. And still, you guys are getting paid to do a "job"? Are you hiring? Because I believe I'm more than qualified to work there. Maybe not, I'd have a hard time coming up with excuses each time my department failed miserably.

GDI might be hiring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDI_In...ility_Services

The employment ecosystem at GLWA/DWSD is somewhat as
follows. Formerly it was only DWSD of course. One applied to
the City of Detroit. One filled in all of the paperwork. One
took a civil service exam, if applicable. There was the medical
exam and the drug test. After being hired, there was a glacially
slow ladder of wages and responsibilities.
There was a pension at the end. For the rank and file
tiers, pensions were not impressive except as the aggregate.
They were typically about $20,000. For those who retired
before about 1985 they were pitifully small because inflation
ate into them. GLWA pensions going forward are not well
protected from inflation.

For the executive levels, pensions were better, but not
comparable to private sector executive pensions.

A janitorial worker was a relatively secure civil servant
with union negotiated working conditions and benefits
including a small pension on retirement.

With the advent of GLWA the civil service janitors were
let go. A construction contractor initially took over the
janitorial responsibilities. The ownership of the janitorial
concession has passed of course to an equity privately
owned firm, GDI.

Anyone complaining about that and wanting janitorial
workers to go back to public servant civil service
mode is a COMMUNIST of course. It was all CORRUPT
in there too somehow, yes it was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDI_In...ility_Services

The GLWA staff that deal with wet breaker boxes have
not been privatized as yet however. They tend to be
trained skilled trades workers. If you are a decent auto
mechanic this would be a good base to build on if you
would be interested in working for GLWA. Several persons
who used to do industrial maintenance for U.S. Steel
did get hired in a few months back.
About half of those that work for GLWA are actually
contractors. The ones that installed the breaker boxes
that eventually became drenched were contractors.
The ones that drew up the diagrams for the installation
of the breaker boxes are probably also contractors.
I think MikeM might be one of those.

[Dumpling]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ne/5619216001/

I live on the aforementioned street. During the last Friday
8/27/2021 rainfall, the entire street in front of my house
was curb to curb full of water. There was just enough of
a grade so that the rainfall was gently flowing south on
the street just as if it were a river. Several lawns on the
next block over now have divots where at least one motorist
decided that driving on the sidewalk was what needed to
happen. There is a small valley that cuts across several
north-south streets south of Paul and all the water probably
settled there [including in the houses in the valley as well
no doubt].

Mercury Drive near the Ford Road Walmart and Home Depot
also has divots in the adjacent grass because an SUV
swallowing pond developed there too.

It was depressing to see all the damage happening again.
My basement had seepage coming in several corners though
not sewer backup water. I am unhappy that it happened
to anyone.

[MikeM]

So, you can't handle a "100 year rain", you can't handle a "1000 year rain", you can't handle a "one-hour, ten-year rainfall"

Yes, because your forefathers - back when America was great! - decided a system designed to handle a ten-year, one-hour storm was sufficient. You know, back when grandma had nothing in her basement but a washing machine, a few boxes of Christmas decorations, and a set of storm windows? No drywall, no wall-to-wall carpeting, no antiques, no wedding dresses, no Pelotons, no stereos, no 55" TVs. I mean, who the f@ck would spend billions on a system for a 1,000 year storm that would only be used to it's capacity for a few hours once a millennium? So the ten-year storm design is basically the standard throughout the northern US. Pay up for more capacity or pray climate change turns Detroit into a desert.

[Dumpling]

I went on vacation for the first part of August and read two books
as well as enjoying other typical vacation activities.

I am of the staunch conviction that a basement is not a luxury
item.

The Americans profiled by Bill Bryson, who wrote one of the
two books that I read, would agree. [Those Americans
that he observed in about year 2000 were of the
staunch conviction that ice is not a luxury item.]

https://www.amazon.com/Im-Stranger-H...=books&sr=1-23

Apparently basements were not a thing in the UK but they
definitely are here in the American midwest.

This book was a fascinating read because we are twenty
years past from when it was written. When it was written
he was referencing conditions twenty years prior, which
would have been about 1980, very often. He wrote about
basements as being something we take for granted.

[Henry Whalley]

Americans are increasingly incapable of managing the fundamentals of civilization.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes, because your forefathers - back when America was great! - decided a system designed to handle a ten-year, one-hour storm was sufficient. You know, back when grandma had nothing in her basement but a washing machine, a few boxes of Christmas decorations, and a set of storm windows? No drywall, no wall-to-wall carpeting, no antiques, no wedding dresses, no Pelotons, no stereos, no 55" TVs. I mean, who the f@ck would spend billions on a system for a 1,000 year storm that would only be used to it's capacity for a few hours once a millennium? So the ten-year storm design is basically the standard throughout the northern US. Pay up for more capacity or pray climate change turns Detroit into a desert.

That's right, lay the blame elsewhere. It's called covering your a$$. @ least my "four" fathers had enough sense to make sure the pump was plugged in. Friday's downpour lasted 20 minutes. Again causing a few million in damages. You talk about billions, how much do you figure has been spent over the last 32 years on damage replacement? Everybody gets on the bandwagon about how the insurance companies are sticking it to Detroit. What do you figure homeowners, if you can get it, will run after this past summer? 4 floodings in one season? Don't forget auto insurance.

[Jimaz]

Check out these violent winds in Port Fourchon Louisiana.

Hurricane Ida blasts 150 mph winds as it comes ashore Sunday

From the camp of David Tallo Jr. in Port Fourchon as Hurricane Ida came ashore Sunday.

Ida jumped from a tropical storm to a category-4 storm in just two days.

I think that yellow thing in the water is just a moored buoy.

It's amazing that structure withstood winds that strong.

[Jimaz]

This video starts off with that same Port Fourchon camera. As bad as it was in the above video, it got much, much worse.

Hurricane Ida:
flooding and devastation as historically powerful storm makes landfall

[Dumpling]

So for Detroit drainage planning going forward we
can use 3.5 inches in twenty minutes as the worst case
scenario. This is 10.5 inches in an hour.

[MikeM]

Looks like NJ can't handle an everyday summer rain shower either.

[Dumpling]

Looks like NJ can't handle an everyday summer rain shower either.

https://www.iweathernet.com/total-ra...rs-to-72-hours

There was a wide swath of New Jersey that received about
ten inches of rain. Pennsylvania, Connecticut, parts of Maryland,
and Long Island also received high amounts of rainfall that
would certainly cause flooding.

The greater Boston area received four inches of rain which
would cause flooding, though not as severe as with ten inches
of rain.

[Zacha341]

^ New York floods in varied and diverse places indeed - subways of course:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-Ida-hit.html

[MikeM]

https://www.iweathernet.com/total-ra...rs-to-72-hours

There was a wide swath of New Jersey that received about
ten inches of rain. Pennsylvania, Connecticut, parts of Maryland,
and Long Island also received high amounts of rainfall that
would certainly cause flooding.

The greater Boston area received four inches of rain which
would cause flooding, though not as severe as with ten inches
of rain.

So, what's the problem? Why are they flooding? Surely their sewers were designed to handle 10" of rain!

[Dumpling]

All that flooding is really no joke! The New York area did
have the small dignity of extensive advance notice that a
former hurricane was bearing down on the area.
Condolences to those who lost their loved ones.

A couple of the recent rainfalls here in the Detroit area
were more like the Jack in the Box popping out of nowhere.
The immediate advance notice was minimal other than:
that's what we've been getting recently.
In other words, the forecast might be for two and a half
inches in a nearby region; then wham! seven inches in
your area. [The June 26th rain]
The forecast might be for two inches of rain, probably
Sunday into Monday, but maybe anytime: then
wham! your local business district is submerged in three
feet of water mid-Friday after a three to four inch rainfall.
[The August 27th rain]

Miserable.

[Jimaz]

The Giant Underground Tunnels Protecting Tokyo From Floods

If you believe the hype, then the Metropolitan Area Underground Discharge Channel stops Tokyo flooding. It doesn't. But it is one colossal part of a huge network of flood defences that protect a city that would otherwise be... well, very wet....

[MikeM]

the giant underground tunnels protecting tokyo from floods

Socialism!

[313WX]

So, what's the problem? Why are they flooding? Surely their sewers were designed to handle 10" of rain!

NYC saw a widespread 7-8" and is near sea level.

Meanwhile, it seems all it takes is 2" for freeways to shut down and basements to flood in Detroit, despite being 600+ feet above sea level.

[Zacha341]

At least that's a positive outworking of such!

Socialism!