Ramblings of an old Detroit copper.

[Lowell]

[Note to Lowell.....noticed I finally used brackets correctly!]

I've alway used [square brackets] anyway because they are easier. I don't have to hold down the shift key to create them as one needs to do with round brackets.

[Ray1936]

During your temporary assignment to the Vice Bureau, I take it you were based downtown at the first precinct? What was the parking situation like there back then? I've heard at times it was problem to the point of becoming a joke. Did you spend time at the old Recorder's Court testifying in cases? Had that building become a dump by this time? I believe it was demolished in 1973.

Ah, questions! -l- Yes, the vice squad was on the 7th floor of old police HQ at 1300 Beaubien. -2- Parking was always a bear. There was a department owned "mud lot" at Gratiot and Beaubien for employee use, but it was usually full and pretty grimey. -3- Yeah, went to Recorder's Court early sessions all the time. All my cases were misdemeanors and quickly disposed of. -4- As best as my memory serves, the building was always in good repair. Of course, it couldn't hold a candle to the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice. But it was decent.

[Ray1936]

I've alway used [square brackets] anyway because they are easier. I don't have to hold down the shift key to create them as one needs to do with round brackets.

Ah, yes. But as one who learned typing at Mackenzie HS in the early fifties, I point to you that an old typewriter had no brackets. It was parenthesis or nothing. Old habits die hard.

[Jimaz]

... I point to you that an old typewriter had no brackets....

And to type a "1" you had to type an "l" instead. There were "2" through "9" keys and a "0" key but the "1" key was AWOL.

I'm not making that up.

And to celebrate today's 123rd anniversary of the Sholes/Glidden/Soule patent, I bring you:

History and QWERTY

• Typewriter Collector

[KnnNike]

However......I didn't like it at all. Vice work deals with the lower portion of humanity.

A lot of people back in the day were considered "the lower portion of humanity" to DPD, especially if your skin was of a certain color [[or rather, not of a certain color).

I apologize in advance for the pooh-pooh parade, but it seems that DPD played such a formidable role in the racism that completely dismantled this city; it's hard for me [[living in Detroit now) to not look at folks from that time period with a great deal of animosity.

I hope one of your future posts will include what role you played during the '67 riots.

[mikefmich]

it's hard for me [[living in Detroit now) to not look at folks from that time period with a great deal of animosity.

I hope one of your future posts will include what role you played during the '67 riots.

With the size of the brush you're using in your post, you could paint the side of a house in 3 swipes. Ya think?

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...it seems that DPD played such a formidable role in the racism that completely dismantled this city; it's hard for me [[living in Detroit now) to not look at folks from that time period with a great deal of animosity.
...snip...

Tis not stylish to say that racism was a small factor. But you also do have to look at broad decline of American manufacturing, the effect of broadly-available air-conditioning in the south and west, white flight [[sure, part racism, mostly escape from real crime as in my strongly liberal family), impact of freeways to the American Dream, low-tax, large yard 'burbs, and a large dash of racism.

Fortunately, racism has been mostly eliminated -- except in the small minds of those who seek power or disruption who are enjoying sowing division. Mostly. Not completely.

[garyalex]

A lot of people back in the day were considered "the lower portion of humanity" to DPD, especially if your skin was of a certain color [[or rather, not of a certain color).

I apologize in advance for the pooh-pooh parade, but it seems that DPD played such a formidable role in the racism that completely dismantled this city; it's hard for me [[living in Detroit now) to not look at folks from that time period with a great deal of animosity.

I hope one of your future posts will include what role you played during the '67 riots.

I'd like to hear about his role in the 1967 riot as well. I believe he was assigned to the 10th Precinct, where I grew up. I had my share of interactions with 10th precinct cops. Many of them treated us like sub humans, unworthy of any respect. I'm not saying I was blameless but some of those guys were just bigots with a uniform, badge and gun. He's got his stories. We have ours.

[Ray1936]

I'd like to hear about his role in the 1967 riot as well. I believe he was assigned to the 10th Precinct, where I grew up. I had my share of interactions with 10th precinct cops. Many of them treated us like sub humans, unworthy of any respect. I'm not saying I was blameless but some of those guys were just bigots with a uniform, badge and gun. He's got his stories. We have ours.

No, I was assigned to the Motorcycle Traffic Bureau in 1967. My assignment for the most part was the area inside the Grand Boulevard for pedestrian enforcement, as in the mid sixties the city experienced a rash of fatal pedestrian accidents.

We did not have any quotas, despite those outsiders who say we did.

In my days there as a supervisor, I once had a young white officer approach me and say, "Hey, Sarge, some of the black officers there only write tickets to white motorists!" To which I responded, "Well, I know there are some white officers who only target black motorists. Hopefully, all we'll end up doing is getting the bad drivers off the streets."

I don't know if that was the right answer or not, but at the time I was satisfied with it.

Fortunately, in the lines of race relations, I truly believe we have come a long way since the 1960s or before. Whatcha' say?????

[Ray1936]

First day of the 'riot'. Pingree just east of old 12th Street. Me in the tear gas vest.

[TIMT]

Ray, this is wonderful! Please do continue to share your memories, no-matter how trivial you may think some of the things are...

1. Being the third man in a patrol car -- was that considered to be a "Cruiser" car -- the three big guys in a car that would be dispatched to a bar fight, etc?

2. Rouge Park Shooting Qualifications -- if I recall correctly, during the late 1950s & maybe into the 1960s, Rouge Park had a Nike missile site! Any memories regarding that?

3. When were you finally equipped with a handheld radio -- a "Prep" [[Personal Radio Equipped Patrolman?)? I assume around 1973/1974, when DPD migrated to what at the time was a very sophisticated multi-site UHF repeater system [[though some special units kept using the older VHF radio system channels).

4. Speaking of DPD in the early 1970s, do you recall the movie from that era called 'Detroit 9000?' It was filmed in Detroit, with a lot of DPD cooperation. From 1997-2002, I lived at 100 Riverfront Drive in a 23rd floor apartment of Riverfront Towers Apartments. One of the major foot-chase/shootout scenes occurred in what was then the old rail station yards at the foot of 3rd street- *EXACTLY* where Riverfront Towers was built around a decade later. It was surreal to watch that scene in the movie & then look out my window & basically see the same background. Anyone interested in Detroit PD and/or Detroit history in the 1970s should watch that movie [[it's available on DVD). The movie claims that '9000' was the radio-code for Office in distress/emergency assistance needed, but I wonder if that was true, as in the mid & late 1980s I had some young officer friends who hadn't heard about it.

5. Did you know/do you remember where the DPD Narcotics Street Enforcement Unit 'Base 22' was? It was their 'unmarked' location, though you couldn't call it under-cover, because of all the DPD Raid vans that would be pulling in & out of it all days & night... I know it existed in the mid-1980s, I was there once around 1998. It was inside an otherwise abandoned-looking [[but sign up indicating it was for lease) 3 or 4 story warehouse East of Woodward, but not too far from downtown. It was in a rather quiet, kind of spooky meat-packing section of Detroit. I know they moved-out of the place long-ago [[or-else I wouldn't publicly ask). It was kind of right out of some movie, and I've been trying to remember the address or at-least major cross streets for a long time.

Thanks,

Tim, in nearby Henderson NV
[[let me know if you want to meet for lunch sometime)

[Jimaz]

...4. Speaking of DPD in the early 1970s, do you recall the movie from that era called 'Detroit 9000?'...

Total duration one hour, 45 minutes:

Detroit 9000

[Henry Whalley]

...do you remember where the DPD Narcotics Street Enforcement Unit 'Base 22' was?

I believe that at one time they operated out of the Garden Court Apartments on E. Jefferson and Joseph Campau St., and they drank in a pub just south of there. They were an unsavory crew -- any one of them was a living, breathing, argument-on-the-hoof for why we shouldn't have a war on drugs.

[Ray1936]

Wow, lot of questions, lot of responses! I'll pick through them.

The old "DPD cruiser crew" was a four man team, all non rank police officers with the driver in uniform. The routine two-man patrol car [[scout car, called back then) actually had three men assigned to it, but one was always on leave, furlough, sick, or some other absence.

I recall very vaguely of Rouge Park having a missle site, though for the life of me I can't recall exactly where it was. Belle Isle also had one up at the Lake St. Claire end.

The portable [['PREP') radios were first issued in 1965. They were pretty bulky compared to today's hand-held. Before that, you relied on the Gamewell call boxes, well scattered throughout the city. As far as the VHF/UHF frequency timing, I have no idea.

I don't remember the "Detroit 9000" movie at all. And "9000" was never a real radio code in the DPD at all. Writers have a lot of latitude, y'know. I do remember watching "Beverly Hills Cop" with Eddie Murphy the year I retired, and chuckling at seeing some of my old colleagues on the screen after I had retired [[July, 1984).

Sorry to say I never worked Narcotics or knew any of the guys who did. Was just a facet of law enforcement that never appealed to me at all. Dirty job, IMHO.

[Ray1936]

And me using a call box in days long gone.

[bust]

Thanks for your recollections, Ray!

[birwood]

Hey Ray...How about a few more stories...especially if you have a few from #14.

[Dan Wesson]

Next chapter in the book: VICE SQUAD TEMPORARY ASSIGNMENT.



Back in the fifties and early sixties, there were still illegal moonshine stills in operation in the City. Raiding a still and knocking it over was a good piece of work. I'm sure there hasn't been a still in Detroit since, oh, 1975 at best. They'd ferment corn mash to make cheap booze, and it tasted more like Prestone anti-freeze than anything else. But it was cheap and it sold. I used to bring home a gallon jug occasionally [after a raid] to clean my paint brushes.

Ha I remember walking to my elementary school [MM Rose] along Baldwin at Medbury and came upon a large pile of liquidy “mashed” corn on the sidewalk that had been dumped out of second floor window.

The other fond memory was dealing with the “ The Big Four”.
there were two detectives, a sergeant and a patrolman for the driver. It was cool when they earned our respect and they came to respect us. A big four door black unmarked Chrysler they would cruise around in.

I hope my recollection is accurate…. Anyone.?

[Meddle]

I remember 4 digit codes, but they were incident type codes. They'd send units to an 8330 rather than saying bomb threat on the open radio.

I don't remember them on VHF, but the UHF channels were all in the 450.xx frequency range. Call sign KQA414 was used system wide though every transmitter site should have had their own and many of the repeater sites did. There was some kind of call sign reallocation and I remember some switching to a four letter, four number format.

The cruisers I remember weren't fully unmarked, they had yellow lettering on the front doors, both sides: Detroit Police with the vehicle ID number XX-XXXX with the first two being the model year of the vehicle.



Went looking for something else and found this old thread:

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...ice-Car-Photos

[Honky Tonk]

Ha I remember walking to my elementary school [MM Rose] along Baldwin at Medbury and came upon a large pile of liquidy “mashed” corn on the sidewalk that had been dumped out of second floor window.

The other fond memory was dealing with the “ The Big Four”.
there were two detectives, a sergeant and a patrolman for the driver. It was cool when they earned our respect and they came to respect us. A big four door black unmarked Chrysler they would cruise around in.

I hope my recollection is accurate…. Anyone.?

The old noggin is still working, Dan. I've had the pleasure of "meeting" the Big Four on several occasions in my younger days. Walking to school, I used to pass a home with a larger yard with a tall wooden fence around it. There were vines, with strange pods on them, unlike my Mom's and Aunt's flowers, poking out between the boards, here and there. One of the neighbors told me they were hops.[I had to look up "hops" in a dictionary, internet wasn't working back then] Walking home from school one day, there were several black DPD cruisers in front of the house, and the signature Big Four sedan. Several officers were pouring, out of barrels, a liquidy, oatmeal-like substance into the sewer, lots of it. It was summertime, hot, and the concoction stunk to high heaven. Turned out the DPD had busted a beer making still. Back then, a lot of people made homemade wine, but this was a large amount. I remember walking over to it and poking it with a stick, [geeky kid] until one of the cops chased me away and told me to go home. My first initiation into the seemy underworld of crime.

[Ray1936]

The other fond memory was dealing with the “ The Big Four”.
there were two detectives, a sergeant and a patrolman for the driver. It was cool when they earned our respect and they came to respect us. A big four door black unmarked Chrysler they would cruise around in.

I hope my recollection is accurate…. Anyone.?

Good, but not accurate. The "big four" did not have rank; they were all patrolmen [[police officers); no detectives or sergeants. Everyone thought there was rank in there, but believe me, there was not. However, as police officers, they were all up there in seniority.

Stories from #14? Well, prior to the 16th precinct opening up [[Grand River and McNichols), #14 had everything in northwest Detroit west of the Grand Trunk Railroad, next to the old Sears store on Grand River [[the tracks were just east of the Beverly Theatre). I can't recall how many square miles it served, but it was pretty big. In 1953, they gave a hunk of it to the Palmer Park [[#12) precinct, and then in 1955 #16 opened up and took all the turf west of Southfield.

I had come on the job as a police cadet on August 1, 1955, so just three months later #16 opened and I was one of the first cadets to work there. Basically ran the switchboard and kept track of the street guys calling in every hour. Fun job. All kinds of shit happens in police stations, believe me.

One summer month, the switchboard operator at the east side Connor Station [[#15) calls and needs to swap a day off. No problem, and the Telephone Bureau bosses never had any problem with it [[we worked in the Telephone Bureau, not the precincts we were sent to). Well, this west sider got so damn lost trying to find Gratiot and Connor I barely made the shift change in time. I saw a big yellow brick building on Connor and thought maybe that was it. But, no, that was the terminal for City Airport.

[Honky Tonk]

I saw a big yellow brick building on Connor and thought maybe that was it. But, no, that was the terminal for City Airport.

DPD Air Force?

[softailrider]

First day of the 'riot'. Pingree just east of old 12th Street. Me in the tear gas vest.

Holy crap, one of those guys has a Thompson with a stick magazine.

[CassTechGrad]

Taken from the book: “Detroit Police Department”
By Lt. Donna Jarvis, Lt. Stephen W. White, Lt. Charles Wilson, and Officer Michael Woody

[bust]

Holy crap, one of those guys has a Thompson with a stick magazine.

Insane, yet nothing compared to what they've had for years and still use today.