Belle Isle Neglect

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I don't see what's wrong with the graffiti. There is a tunnel under Hall Rd./M-59 in Utica that has graffiti sort of like was posted. And obviously the Dequindre Cut. I'm at Belle Isle a lot because I live a few miles away. But as far as the graffiti in Utica is concerned, I'm sure it would be used as a narrative. We have a lot of cool places here in Metro Detroit and Windsor.

I agree. You go to any major city and you will find graffiti everywhere. It's part of the landscape and culture. If you try to have it removed, it's going to re-appear so why bother.

[Gistok]

Some Detroit building owners have the right idea to discourage graffiti...

[Ray1936]

I agree. You go to any major city and you will find graffiti everywhere. It's part of the landscape and culture. If you try to have it removed, it's going to re-appear so why bother.

Fortunately, graffiti is extremely rare here. Whatever, I think it is a juvenile undertaking for the most part. Total lack of maturity.

[JRiordan]

People fail to understand that the DNR does not have an endless amount of funds. They are a state agency with a budget. The amount of disrepair was understated and still being addressed. The priority is spending funds on facilities/attractions that every park visitor can use. Speciality items [[ex old golf course) will have to wait.

[Richard]

Is a golf course considered a specialty item?

From my understanding of the history of it and all that it contained,there was something for everybody to do,at that time it was an oasis away from the hustle and bustle of the big city.

A stroll in the gardens,a leisurely game of golf,a canoe ride etc.

So what is the states core mission or goal for the island?

Outside of the understandable stabilization,do they have short term and long term goals,or just enough until it reverts back to the city?

Things like a golf course or yacht club could be revenue generators that help offset costs.

[Gistok]

^
The 153 year old Detroit Yacht Club is on a separate island about 50ft. from Belle Isle, and I believe is privately owned. It is an amazing complex built on a huge scale... the 93,000 sq. ft. clubhouse is supposedly the largest in the USA.

https://www.dyc.com/about

[sirrealone]

We camp at many state parks throughout the summer. Until the last couple of years, we had a few park managers tell us that even though nightly camping reservation fees had gone up, usage rates had also been going up, and the Recreation passport had increased revenues versus the previous system, that they were receiving little or no budget in the way of capital improvements, because the majority of the budget was going toward Belle Isle. In the last 2-3 years, they seem to have started re-distributing things more evenly. Even so, it's a drop in the bucket.

So people can say that what they're doing at Belle Isle is 'not enough', and they're probably right. But, the truth of the matter is that this holds true for every state park. It's not just a Belle Isle thing. Every park is behind on deferred maintenance.

[JRiordan]

Everyone doesn't play golf, that's why it's considered a special interest. The city shut it down in 2008 so, there’s 13 years of unrestrained overgrowth. If it were in decent condition, like the driving range was, it could be bid out for a firm to operate it. Let's be realistic. It's A 9-hole, par 3 course on an island in Detroit that's playable maybe 6 months a year. It isn't going to draw the crown needed to make spending hundreds of thousands [[million?) to essentially rebuild the course so that it's playable.

During today's BIPAC meeting, it was announced that the land will be opened up and join the rest of the island. Funds were raised; the fence/guard rails around the course will be removed. DTE will remove the lights and poles.

[Vic01]

We camp at many state parks throughout the summer. Until the last couple of years, we had a few park managers tell us that even though nightly camping reservation fees had gone up, usage rates had also been going up, and the Recreation passport had increased revenues versus the previous system, that they were receiving little or no budget in the way of capital improvements, because the majority of the budget was going toward Belle Isle. In the last 2-3 years, they seem to have started re-distributing things more evenly. Even so, it's a drop in the bucket.

So people can say that what they're doing at Belle Isle is 'not enough', and they're probably right. But, the truth of the matter is that this holds true for every state park. It's not just a Belle Isle thing. Every park is behind on deferred maintenance.

Thanks for broader perspective... sometimes we fall into the "5 miles from home syndrome", only seeing or thinking of that stuff.

[Richard]

^
The 153 year old Detroit Yacht Club is on a separate island about 50ft. from Belle Isle, and I believe is privately owned. It is an amazing complex built on a huge scale... the 93,000 sq. ft. clubhouse is supposedly the largest in the USA.

https://www.dyc.com/about

Thanks for that,Lots of really cool history,there is so many different aspects on how Detroit shaped and influenced the entire county and not with just automobiles.

[K-slice]

It's worth asking, had the state not taken over in 2013, what would be the current condition of the park? We can sit here and say that on the surface there have not been the great improvement we had all hoped for, but would we have seen them under city management either? Would the park be worse off now had the state not gotten control?

All we have are hypothetical answers to these questions, however it's plain to see the island had been in decline under the city and that trajectory would have been tough to turn around.

Final thought here. We also need to consider that, just like the state, the city only has so much money they can throw at public parks. Duggan touted several city parks that received substantial improvements recently in his last State of the City Address. Locally, Gordon Park got a total renovation within the last few years. Scripps Park, Lasalle Park, and Redmond Plaza are other than I know of with major investment in the last 3 years.

Would these local parks have received this attention had Belle Isle continued to weigh on the cities annual park budget? I doubt it.

[Richard]

The state is subjective to the same economics as the city,under the current leadership the city before Covid saw its first excess in the city budget in many years.

Back then it was state of mind,the general consensus was to bulldoze Detroit into the river and it was hard to imagine the city in a place where it is today.

What is clear is that no matter who had control of it,years of neglect took there toll on it.

The positive at that time was there was a lot of volunteers and groups that were working towards making it a better place,I am not shur if that is still allowed by the state or if all of that effort was in vain.

Outside side of the infrastructure part,I think it instills more city pride when it is being rebuilt on a volunteer basis,you can look at it and say,we did it.

I am not sure also if it is all now being contracted out which will be subject to the rise and fall of the state economy.

The state could easily have a budget shortfall and funds diverted and it could very well end up being a very slow process no matter who has it.

In theory the state does not have any deeper pockets then the city does,like was posted already,they had to divert funds from other facilities to fix this one,no different then the city would have had to do.

[masterblaster]

Everyone doesn't play golf, that's why it's considered a special interest. The city shut it down in 2008 so, there’s 13 years of unrestrained overgrowth. If it were in decent condition, like the driving range was, it could be bid out for a firm to operate it. Let's be realistic. It's A 9-hole, par 3 course on an island in Detroit that's playable maybe 6 months a year. It isn't going to draw the crown needed to make spending hundreds of thousands [[million?) to essentially rebuild the course so that it's playable.

During today's BIPAC meeting, it was announced that the land will be opened up and join the rest of the island. Funds were raised; the fence/guard rails around the course will be removed. DTE will remove the lights and poles.

Was the unannounced demolition of the Newsboy Shelter also discussed during this meeting? I would have gladly financially contributed to its restoration if I knew it was in danger of demolition and if I knew about the crowdfunding website.

Also, a disc golf course had been briefly operated on the old golf course at some point in the past few years. There still seems to be some interest in that among area residents based on the on-line forum Reddit. I hope that the park leadership re-considers if enough interest and funding for a disc golf course is manifested.

[JRiordan]

Was the unannounced demolition of the Newsboy Shelter also discussed during this meeting? I would have gladly financially contributed to its restoration if I knew it was in danger of demolition and if I knew about the crowdfunding website.

Also, a disc golf course had been briefly operated on the old golf course at some point in the past few years. There still seems to be some interest in that among area residents based on the on-line forum Reddit. I hope that the park leadership re-considers if enough interest and funding for a disc golf course is manifested.

From what I posted on a related thread. A fundraiser was started in 2017 and barely covered the cost for architectural scanning. The most recent estimate was $1M to restore it to the original condition.

As documented in various BIPAC meeting minutes, the shelter was infested by terminates and wood rot for years. The fundraising drive did raise enough to save it. Earlier this year, the decision was made to have it demolished before it collapsed on itself. Architectural significant pieces were removed, the entire shelter was scanned and architectural blue prints were created. Being a permanent structure, the city council approved its demolition.

[DetBill]

It still looks a ton better than it used to. Anyone who denies that hasn't been there in a while.

I agree totally, Belle Isle is certifiably better than it was 10 years ago, overall, its beautiful....Guests from out of town recently , who hadn't been here since 2009, even remarked at belle isle how nice it is now, not the "dump" it was before.

[Gistok]

From what I posted on a related thread. A fundraiser was started in 2017 and barely covered the cost for architectural scanning. The most recent estimate was $1M to restore it to the original condition.

As documented in various BIPAC meeting minutes, the shelter was infested by terminates and wood rot for years. The fundraising drive did raise enough to save it. Earlier this year, the decision was made to have it demolished before it collapsed on itself. Architectural significant pieces were removed, the entire shelter was scanned and architectural blue prints were created. Being a permanent structure, the city council approved its demolition.

Thanks for all the information! One question I have is this... "The fundraising drive did raise enough to save it"... does that mean that with that money and some architectural parts... that it may still [[with additional funds required) be recreated? Or is demolition the end of the story for that structure?

[JRiordan]

Thanks for all the information! One question I have is this... "The fundraising drive did raise enough to save it"... does that mean that with that money and some architectural parts... that it may still [[with additional funds required) be recreated? Or is demolition the end of the story for that structure?

If they can get the money, the plan is to rebuild it.

[bust]

A lot of golf and yacht clubs don't make a profit {supposedly}.
Just ask you-know-who.
A lot of blockbuster movies don't either.

[Honky Tonk]

I was on the Belle Isle race track last night. Absolutely disgusting. Looks like Whitler is hell-bent on creating an amusement park.

[Maof]

I was on the Belle Isle race track last night. Absolutely disgusting. Looks like Whitler is hell-bent on creating an amusement park.

Not sure what you're getting at HT but, what does "Whitmer" have to do with the setting up of the Grand Prix?

[jcole]

We just came out of a year long pandemic; I'm sure things that were supposed to get done, didn't

[Kathleen]

Not sure what you're getting at HT but, what does "Whitmer" have to do with the setting up of the Grand Prix?

Agreed. Penske made his Grand Prix agreement with the city of Detroit 2007. The Michigan DNR took over Belle Isle in 2014 and continues to honor the agreement that Penske had with the city. It's always a messy transition to set up the race course. And it's often compounded by the various construction projects on the island at any given time.

Gov. Whitmer has nothing to do with what Penske does on Belle Isle to prepare and run the Grand Prix.

[Zacha341]

She DOES have enough problems of her own for certain.

Not sure what you're getting at HT but, what does "Whitmer" have to do with the setting up of the Grand Prix?

[wolverine]

Graffiti is easy to remove, but it’s expensive to do so frequently on complicated structures like the bridge shown. It’s easier to schedule it over longer periods of time to save on labor costs. Seems like the bridge actually needs to be painted with all the rust showing through.

[Maof]

They are currently restoring the sawmill.
https://www.manisteenews.com/lifesty...photo-20558308

Also, they are doing ground work near the beach. From the looks of it, I'm guessing sidewalks.