Critical Race theory and other threadjacked posts

[Richard]

If the GPP racist hang the KKK, UKA, Proud Boys, or even a Nazi Swastika flag in their window next to my home. I just hang my Black Lives Matter Flag in my window, too.

heck yea,there you go,and I bet everybody would be living in harmony while allowing everybody to live their own life weather we agree with it or not.

[bust]

Great, now the [[im)poster who admits to having never stepped foot in Michigan, who may not even be from the US, and if not trolls us claiming to live just outside of Tampa -- St. Petersburg anyone?

The topic is intensely divisive; who expected he'd stay away?

[Richard]

^ and here you are doing your part making it divisive.

Do not need to be in Detroit to have silly misconceptions that racism in Detroit started in 2016,beside you forget everybody visits and moves south and brings it with them.

I have been in the south for over 40 years and have never seen a KKK flag,and if I did,and even if I did not personally agree with it,I would not be willing to give up my personal rights in order to remove others.

It’s a piece of cloth,it means nothing until people want it to or create reasons to be offended by it.

I suspect that is why they present it,in order to get a rise out of people and people are intent on making it relevant.

9 members sit on the COD city council,1 is white,kinda,not seeing much diversity there,or is Detroit the reverse of GPP?

The KKK was formed by the democrat party in order to keep African Americans in their place,the only time they cared was after they were forced to allow them to vote,then they became useful.

They took the genie out of the bottle with their creation,The KKK is doing what they were established to do,apparently you just do not turn that switch off.

This has been going on for over 200 years,maybe it is time for the democrat party to atone for their past and have a sit down with the democrats,KKK and the African American community and figure it out once and for all.

Apparently nothing else seems to work.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

The KKK was formed by the democrat party in order to keep African Americans in their place,the only time they cared was after they were forced to allow them to vote,then they became useful.

They took the genie out of the bottle with their creation,The KKK is doing what they were established to do,apparently you just do not turn that switch off.

This has been going on for over 200 years,maybe it is time for the democrat party to atone for their past and have a sit down with the democrats,KKK and the African American community and figure it out once and for all.

Apparently nothing else seems to work.

Come on, Dick. We all know the racists started leaving the Democratic Party [[it’s not “democrat” party) starting with Strom Thurmond and his Dixiecrats. Nixon and his overtly racist Southern Strategy, Reagan and his Philadelphia, MS kickoff....the transformation of the GOP into a largely racist-friendly party is a long done deal. Rather than Democrats atoning for what southerners did before the massive realignment of the parties, maybe the GOP [[or is it GQP now?) should atone for its current actions.

We all know there’s about a 99.9% chance that the KKK flag guy voted for Trump, if he voted.

[Richard]

Come on, Dick. We all know the racists started leaving the Democratic Party [[it’s not “democrat” party) starting with Strom Thurmond and his Dixiecrats. Nixon and his overtly racist Southern Strategy, Reagan and his Philadelphia, MS kickoff....the transformation of the GOP into a largely racist-friendly party is a long done deal. Rather than Democrats atoning for what southerners did before the massive realignment of the parties, maybe the GOP [[or is it GQP now?) should atone for its current actions.

We all know there’s about a 99.9% chance that the KKK flag guy voted for Trump, if he voted.

Because you interviewed every one of the estimated 3000 KKK members and asked them who they voted for?

What is the math,325 million people in the country and out of that there are an estimated 3000 KKK members ?

They have been around sense the 1800s and have had a declining membership in the last 50 years and are continuing to lose members.

I think the odds of removing hate in this country by using the process of eliminating everybody we label as haters are not in our favor,haters have been around for thousands of years,nobody has been able to systematically purge them out yet.

Salam tried that with witches,did not seem to work out very well.

So the question becomes,how do you buffer that hate that involves a tiny percentage of the population,without giving up your freedoms and rights in the process.

Somebody sees a flag and it offends them and they are willing to do whatever is necessary to remove that vision from their life,remember what history shows is when we go through the process of systematically removing everybody that offends us or those who we do not agree with.

Once started it seems to know no bounds.

Symbols of hate only stir up hate when you allow them to.

Their only purpose is to garner reactions,if you ignore it,the intent is removed.

325 million individuals in this country,is there actually anything that somebody some where will not consider a symbol of hate?

There was a librarian that was recently fired because he posted on social media as he was burning books that he deemed conservative or related to Trump.

Is that also not a form of hate used to purge from the system things that they determined were tools of hate?

We as a country put more effort into becoming gender neutral then we do at practicing the systematic placing people in category’s based on skin color.

I posted the example of the Detroit city council as having 1 white member out of 9.

The argument would be,because Detroit is a majority African American they are represented by a majority African American city council.

If we are not to judge others according to skin color,why is it acceptable in one case but not another.

Even the base of saying the city is a majority African American is flawed,maybe we should just stop categorizing and classifying individuals into selected groups of people.

At the end of the day we are all Americans regardless of skin color and most want the same things in life.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Membership figures of the KKK are not the issue. The normalization of overt hate and racism over the past four years is.

[Richard]

Membership figures of the KKK are not the issue. The normalization of overt hate and racism over the past four years is.

How has it been normalized when the membership has decreased? If it was normalized would not membership increase?

Far right or far left or the KKK has never been normalized,they have been brought into the limelight because they make for good political tools and creating boogymen that politicians can save you from.

These groups have been around for decades,the only thing different now is with social media you get real time updates with events by the second.

Obama was elected and publicized as the first African American president.

Harris was elected VP as the first woman,the first woman of color and the first woman of Asian descent or what ever here genealogy may be.

They were identified by their skin color and gender.

Obama was not elected as a United States citizen,he was elected as an African American.

So systematically we categorize and separate everybody according to skin color.

Outside of blaming Trump,do you have any solutions for systematically removing hate so things like the KKK have no relevance?

[bust]

Membership figures of the KKK are not the issue. The normalization of overt hate and racism over the past four years is.

Besides, all kinds of new hate groups have popped up. With cooler initiation ceremonies, more hip factor, radder tats, niftier outfits, and more comfortable hats.

[Richard]

I never even heard of the bugaboo people until this site,I see lots of reference to them being supporters of the past president,but a little research says they are anti government,so kinda like Antifa in pretty shirts.

https://www.adl.org/boogaloo

[Zacha341]

There's also a quotient of those styled groups from which Trump was not extreme enough! His family admixtures of Jewish people; his support from a percentage of black people, his careless, endulgent comments, etc. are problematic for them ala their 'purity' tests.

...We all know there’s about a 99.9% chance that the KKK flag guy voted for Trump, if he voted.

[Meddle]

Anybody go to the rally?

Reports I see only mention a few dozen.

[Zacha341]

Sorry for the delay in responding I was away from all things news and politics for a while [[indeed a wonderful feeling).

What is CRT?

CRT is the acronym for Critical Race Theory: coming to a college and business near you [[smile) if not already arrived! As I stated earlier I've known about it for many years. CRT at a glance seems to be of good noble intentions to resolve racial injustice, having a legal basis:

[Critical race theory [[CRT) is a framework in jurisprudence that examines society and culture as they relate to categorizations of race, law, and power in the United States of America. It began as a movement in American law schools in the mid- to late 1980s as a reworking of critical legal theory on race issues...] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

Not quite the dismissable bogeyman contrivance of the far right, CRT's recent surge [[mostly from academe) has been adopted as a crucial component/ plank of Social Justice/ Diversity comprehension, as infused into education/ curricula [[including K12) and some training in various corporations/ businesses.

So what IS the problem...? I'm for diversity and social justice, I am.

At issue is that depending on your interpretation [[and for some as a direct read), CRT purports that race alone [[not fluid or adaptable) determines ones fixed and enhernently racial attitude[[s). Specifically, and to the point: some of CRT tenants state that if you're white you ARE inherently racist. Period.

You're only redemption is your acknowledgement [[and public confession therein) of how many levels [[conscious or not) your are racist; practicing your 'privilege' and behaving, et al. Some 'redemption' can be found in your commitment to work thru that [[ala the workshops and educational principles), perpetually.

And it's so oft said that 'religion' is demanding and dogmatic?!!

I've no dog in the fight. I am black, so it could be argued I could/ should take a bit of a schadenfreude [[well as racists they ALL deserve this) attitude. But as I'm not a racist [[retributive or otherwise). I don't find this ideology truly problem-solving, or addressing the issues re. race and social culture needing work.

But it's making some people A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY [[more on that fiscal matter later, if applicable).

See below a few searches for your own take on Critical Race Theory [[as practiced now). I am certain not a few white people [[and others) will not be 'feeling' a world view that posits that by default a particular race is perpetually racist. Without even a trap-door of escape, I suppose.

And if you find CRT particularly front-loaded, dig this: It jacks you up on the back-end too. If you claim that you're NOT a racist you are just being more 'white', exhibiting your 'whiteness', and power, and so of course uncomfortable or fragile to the challenge!:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=critical+race+theory&sp=EgIIB Q%253D%253D

https://www.google.com/search?q=crit...hrome&ie=UTF-8

CRT is not quite the same as diversity and social justice training. I've been part of a few online and face-to-face.

It has become part of it in some cases. Critical Race Theory came up during the presidential race as Trump was challenged on it by one of the moderators. Trump's rejection mounted for some a reflexive grand defense of CRT [[not knowing the full details of the ideology).

After all if Trump don't-like-it, that's enough for me. Of course it needs no scrutiny. Full steam-ahead!

https://time.com/5891138/critical-ra...ory-explained/

Who came up with the idea [black people]?

From article:

The critical race theory movement officially came into being at a 1989 workshop led by Crenshaw, Neil Gotanda and Stephanie Phillips at the St. Benedict Center in Madison, Wis.—but the ideas behind the movement had been brewing for years by that point.

In the 1970s, a group of legal scholars and activists developed the theory, building on the work of movements like critical legal theory and radical feminism.

More from the Times article:

... Kimberlé Crenshaw, one of the founding scholars of CRT and the executive director and co-founder of the African American Policy Forum, says that critical race theory “is a practice—a way of seeing how the fiction of race has been transformed into concrete racial inequities.”

“It’s an approach to grappling with a history of white supremacy that rejects the belief that what’s in the past is in the past, and that the laws and systems that grow from that past are detached from it,” Crenshaw told TIME in an email.

CRT? What the hell is that?

I agree I lean "left", and I've taught various semesters at universities. Interracial family. According to him I should be one of its proponents, but I'd never even heard of it.

It's obviously yet another bogeyman contrived to disparage his critics. Someone should analyze what media sources use the term, and who's heard of it. I'll all but guarantee the vast majority lean right, often so far they stray into disinformation territory...

I'm only mildly surprise why so many [[young and impressionable) quickly champion CRT. Apparently they've not actually studied its raw meaning and agenda [[sans the appropriate, political buffering)

I was aware of CRT 20 years ago, before it became 'um, 'fashionable'....

Things I believe:

..... 3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is divisive and counter-productive.

And who will be blamed for all of this after the fist-o'-cuffs?

[jcole]

I mean this as a serious question and not as some sort of race baiting. Nor do I mean it to start some sort of crazy shit storm on here.
I understand to an extent the precept that whites are by nature racist due to "privilege" etc, but what is the Critical Theory for other races? Is there a specific reaction to White racism that figures into this somehow or is the theory only based on the White race and their reaction to other races?

Specifically, and to the point: some of CRT tenants state that if you're white you ARE inherently racist. Period.

[Zacha341]

Critical Race Theory is a serious issue. From your review [[please do) of the two search portals provided, for example, you'll see that the Theory seeks on the surface to end racism, providing equity to oppressed groups - clearly identifying all Whites, by their very race as the problem. Watch what POC say about this pro and con. That will answer most of your questions.

Sure, reactions to racism are varied, but CRT and related writings even put forth break-down lists of certain fixed white 'identities'. That was done to BLACK PEOPLE! This is an over-reach to say the least. In this day and politic, would a 'tenth' of this be openly and boldly ascribed to black/ brown people? With remaining doubt as to the target or a need to find legitimacy? Of course not.

The white race is their target, per their words [[hardly vague) and a rather heavy handed approach. Check out Robin Deangelo's book White Fragility. Her clarity on the agenda: ala who's-who, for what, and why will best my efforts. Mine are but cliff-notes to the bigger read - in presented bold as this goes forth. That is why I provided the broad search results.

In the end, everyone will take away from this what they must. I'll not be eating my heart out about it as this is so big and bold [[and hard to ignore as there will be a response) that will not be required.

[Jason]

I mean this as a serious question and not as some sort of race baiting. Nor do I mean it to start some sort of crazy shit storm on here.
I understand to an extent the precept that whites are by nature racist due to "privilege" etc, but what is the Critical Theory for other races? Is there a specific reaction to White racism that figures into this somehow or is the theory only based on the White race and their reaction to other races?

It's made for the American context, but the same thing would apply to other cultures with different races and ethnic groups swapped in. It doesn't say that there's anything biologically inherent about white people, it basically says that the fact that it was white people is a coincidence of history and that racial divisions are arbitrary.

It also doesn't say that individual white people are racist, the point is actually the opposite. The point is that there are legacy effects of past racism baked into the system, regardless of how racist or non-racist any individual is.

White privilege is just that any racially-based harm against blacks is by default a benefit to whites.

[jcole]

So it’s basically the theory that whatever race is larger and in control will always deal out systemic racism.

[canuck]

So it’s basically the theory that whatever race is larger and in control will always deal out systemic racism.

It's racism, it's classism and ageism and all that stuff, which hserves to distance people, and give privilege to certain groups over others.

In the early 1900's, the middle aged white guy who cast the part for the Quaker Oats gentleman, did he also cast Uncle Ben or Aunt Jemima for their parts?

The Quaker bit was more than a little misappropriate, by hijacking a good ole religious identity known for its simple ingenuity, and lifestyle. The AA ones were descended from a long list of black characters used to sell tobacco along with the old Indian chiefs of lore, or shoe polish, or whatever else the mind of a remote, Yale educated Ad man could muster.

I think that the stereotypes still exist, and in fact have become stronger than ever. African Americans have created a subculture in the latter part of the 20th century that owns up to the violence via rap music. There is a promotion of the values that disable that community to profit a few. The responsiblity goes all around. The self destructiveness of black communities needs to be addressed by that community, and not ignored by the rest. It is one of the bleakest traits in American life. Whatever bad behavior in poor black or white communities is ingrained, and habits are the result of inner and outer forces. Detroit is not the only city with abandoned houses, Philadelphia, St-Louis, Chicago, Baltimore and a host of others have a lot on their plates dealing with problems that should have been resolved by now. MAGA is an obvious consequence of all that misery, unaddressed.

[Wesley Mouch]

So it’s basically the theory that whatever race is larger and in control will always deal out systemic racism.

Not a CRT expert, but what we hear in the US [[and at least Canada too) is specifically white oppress black. CRT probably can adapt to other oppressor vs. oppressed situations. Think trans-gendered vs. traditional gender identity.

But its not 'deal out' systemic racism. It is simply 'are racist'. No actions or thoughts are required to make you racist. You just are if you're white -- because unequal results.

Also, be careful when discussing CRT. There's a logic distortion field. Words don't quite mean what you think they do. Anti-racism requires active support for racial justice organizations. Being color-blind is not anti-racist. You need to study up, since corporate advancement requires not just a grasp, but an ability to prove your social justice activism to your HR dept.

[jcole]

From what I've read about CRT is that it is more the courts, legal system and corporations being set up to create a barrier for
minorities to become "equal"
From Britannica:

Critical race theory [[CRT), the view that the law and legal institutions are inherently racist and that race itself, instead of being biologically grounded and natural, is a socially constructed concept that is used by white people to further their economic and political interests at the expense of people of colour. According to critical race theory [[CRT), racial inequality emerges from the social, economic, and legal differences that white people create between “races” to maintain elite white interests in labour markets and politics, giving rise to poverty and criminality in many minority communities.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/critical-race-theory

Not a CRT expert, but what we hear in the US [[and at least Canada too) is specifically white oppress black. CRT probably can adapt to other oppressor vs. oppressed situations. Think trans-gendered vs. traditional gender identity.

But its not 'deal out' systemic racism. It is simply 'are racist'. No actions or thoughts are required to make you racist. You just are if you're white -- because unequal results.

Also, be careful when discussing CRT. There's a logic distortion field. Words don't quite mean what you think they do. Anti-racism requires active support for racial justice organizations. Being color-blind is not anti-racist. You need to study up, since corporate advancement requires not just a grasp, but an ability to prove your social justice activism to your HR dept.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I’m really not surprised that a thread on the overt racism in GPP, evidenced by the “gentleman” displaying the banner of a terrorist organization, has devolved into diatribes against CRT. We white folk have such terribly thin [[white) skin and really refuse so face reality when it’s the least bit unpleasant for us.

[jcole]

Actually, I don't think I ever said I was for or against it. I don't think you can be "for or against" a theory; you can only agree or disagree with what it states, and I certainly don't think that the theory is totally incorrect. I think there are barriers set up whether inadvertent or not, that make it harder to get a fair shake with police, courts etc, if you are the wrong color or class.

I’m really not surprised that a thread on the overt racism in GPP, evidenced by the “gentleman” displaying the banner of a terrorist organization, has devolved into diatribes against CRT. We white folk have such terribly thin [[white) skin and really refuse so face reality when it’s the least bit unpleasant for us.

[Richard]

Is that not racist,to judge somebody by the color of their skin?

[Zacha341]

Part of the problem with Critical Race Theory as I detailed in post #50 is that mostly it's preaching to the choir!

The system greatly posits that you are guilty until proven innocent, yet no stated means to achieve much redemption [[closed system). See below general search results on CRT [[which cannot all be summed up as right-winged/ KKK/ Trumpster's or even all white):

https://www.youtube.com/results search_query=critical+race+theory&sp=EgIIB Q%253D%253D

https://www.google.com/search?q=crit...hrome&ie=UTF-8

1. Many white people [[particularly those in academe - the seat of much of this), who of course, are not racists may either take in CRT with a measure of aplomb; and or indeed a reasonable call to examine historical and current racism perhaps not top-of-mind if they have not, or are not experiencing it.

2. Another percent may find CRT offensive [[and racist), which by DiAngelo's writings and others indicts them as racist! Ergo, CRT proves its validity/ truth claims by asserting that 'white' identifying behaviors such as 'certainty', 'arrogance' or 'fragility' [[thin skinned) et al, as proof positive!

This is the closed-system front and back-in loaded aspect of Critical Race Theory as I discuss #50. As I stated who [[aside from racists) is so 'CERTAIN' to put forth fixed quantifiable lists of black 'identifiable' eh' behaviors/ responses? Who trusts a group that does that regarding their own race?

3. Last, but CERTAINLY not least, racist whites, steeped in their racism, and supremacy ala the Ku-Kluzers and other so avowed types WILL NOT receive or be reformed by the CRT message!

This audience [[intended one would think) is MISSED by Critical Race Theory.

For them Critical Race Theory affirms and galvanizes their original view re. blacks/ POC and the whites advancing CRT. So up goes another KKK flag, etc. or worse: the private, policy-making, political and criminal activities/ actions racists advance and justify among themselves [[that system remains closed).

As I said before, I'm black -- the target of CRT is NOT on my back per se [[this time, or yet). But I am not racist, and the core of CRT is questionable, not just in what it narrates, but because it is supposedly presented on my behalf.

And I KNOW what it's like to be summarily pre-judged based on my racial group, rather than as a free-will individual.

I also question social/ political 'industries' like this, making big money, promising to address crucial issues yet so broadly missing the mark. CRT may actual dig a further wedge between the races!

[Richard]

So Coca Cola went from this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q

To this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUDMy-GplkQ

But this is where we all end up in the end

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBx-hHf4BE

[Zacha341]

There are a bevy of serviceable and trigger words, and pronouncements out there, new in their emphasis and intent. I know how I would feel if half of what I hear was towards me as a black/ african-american woman [[and historically it and in some case still happens). Already been there! Cringe-worthy. It's easier for me to critique this as I hear what is being said from the black perspective and I see the results of this 'talk' too.

And I don't see much of this engendering the really tough conversations [[between the races) and action towards true racial reconciliation and actions towards, tangible racial justice! The staff org. meeting powerpoint presentation and break-out events end, the zoom meeting concludes; you sign the appropriate document, check the correct survey boxes, but IF your mind and beliefs are not changed...?

So much for the ideas of Martin Luther King... "I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character..."

Also, be careful when discussing CRT. There's a logic distortion field. Words don't quite mean what you think they do. Anti-racism requires active support for racial justice organizations. Being color-blind is not anti-racist. You need to study up, since corporate advancement requires not just a grasp, but an ability to prove your social justice activism to your HR dept.