Impeach Whitmer?

[JonWylie]

... abuse her authority even after the State Supreme Court told her she couldn't.

You're completely misunderstanding the ruling the Supreme Court gave.

[Richard]

When the British told the Americans to lay down their arms or die,they did not,people seem to not know the history of this country when it comes to jumping when the government says jump.

The US is one of the last countries that you will find a population that complies so easy when ordered to.

It’s in our DNA.

Not sure why this jump in cases is such a big surprise,even back when they knew nothing about the virus they said there would be a surge of cases in the fall when the flu season kicks in.

This country is no different then the others,lockdowns slow the spread until you open back up and it comes right back,people really expect everybody to give up everything that they spent a lifetime building without so much as a whisper?

So with no stimulus package,what is the financial plan for all of those service and low income workers that are now sent home,power,water,electric,food?

wing and a prayer?

The list basically includes large gatherings,what happens if there is a protest next week? Do the police come in and force everybody to go home?

[jcole]

MDHHS is making the call; the Supreme Court said THEY have the authority.

... abuse her authority even after the State Supreme Court told her she couldn't.

[Zads07]

Haven't posted in awhile and this is one of the first threads that I see when I returned.

Sadly, ignorance is abounds in so many people, including the OP here.

[ABetterDetroit]

[QUOTE=Zads07;602772]Haven't posted in awhile and this is one of the first threads that I see when I returned...

Welcome back. Ya didn’t miss much. The Republicans vs. The Democrats big game is played all the time now. Why wait just for the election years when we can blame someone for something everyday?

[EastsideAl]

Why would anyone want to do this? She's doing a fine job as far as I can see, and almost certainly saving lives and saving a number of people from a possibly devastating illness. Which is exactly what any responsible public official should be doing.

I have no idea what is wrong with folks in my home state who want to battle a highly contagious virus by trying to ignore it or minimize it, and who seem determined to construe this as a political problem or some sort of existential threat to freedom rather than a, hopefully temporary, public health crisis.

[mikefmich]

This boils things down to a concise nutshell

[Richard]

[QUOTE=ABetterDetroit;602774]

Haven't posted in awhile and this is one of the first threads that I see when I returned...

Welcome back. Ya didn’t miss much. The Republicans vs. The Democrats big game is played all the time now. Why wait just for the election years when we can blame someone for something everyday?

Its not always about D and Rs

Notice how this was implemented without the massive media frenzy of blaming the feds for inaction like back in March and the state did exactly what they were supposed to do,take the responsibility as it is directed in the constitution.

Although it has been regulated in the past that some constitutional rights are sidestepped in a public health emergency for the greater good,there have been people in power in the past that abuse that.

It is every Americans duty as a citizen to protect the constitution as it is the very fabric of how we are governed and gives us the freedoms and protections that we enjoy every day.

If nobody ever questioned those in power when they thought their rights were being abused,then power hungry people would have no qualms about abusing them.

Every day people are defending their constitutional rights in a court of law as they also have that right to.

It does not matter if one is a D or R,we are all entitled to the same rights and if we feel that they have been infringed on it is our right to make a noise about it.

I may or may not agree with some of the peaceful protests,but the one thing I have to do is agree that they have that right to protest and defend that,no matter what my personal feelings are.

[123456789]

In this instance, and in many others related to government / policy, there are simply no "solutions," only trade-offs. The legislature exists to determine if the trade-offs of any particular policy decision makes sense across the body politic.

The governor, or by extension the health department, unilaterally shutting down businesses based on no criteria at all is a trade-off that many people deem unacceptable. This is because the lockdown measures [[the who, what, where, when, why) seem completely arbitrary and the governor has never attempted to explain why certain things are allowed / not allowed.

Why should an elected official be able to determine unilaterally that one legal business can operate when others can't? Do lockdowns actually "save lives" or do they just delay the inevitable? If YOUR business was going to be lost forever due to an arbitrary mandated shutdown, that may or may not impact the health of the community, would you feel the same way?

Like all policy debates, there is a very select few among us able to actually understand both sides of an argument and think rationally, thus the tribal mentality.

[Richard]

This boils things down to a concise nutshell

Nothing like a false sense of security then telling others that they have a low IQ because they do not have a false sense of security.


The average masks you can buy from a local drugstore aren’t enough to filter out viruses.
For that purpose, experts recommend special masks with fine mesh that can capture very small organisms. These also have to be worn correctly for them to work.
Masks worn over the face are also unable to protect you from getting airborne virus particles, from a cough or sneeze, into your eyes.

https://www.healthline.com/health/cold-flu/mask#bottom-line

Granted that type of mask as ineffective as it is,does give you a 1/3 advantage over no mask,providing a new one is used every time and used with a matching pair of goggles.

All that mask pictured is saying,look I have the appearance of wearing a mask.

Now if they showed a picture of a homemade mask using a 600 thread count bedsheet or tightly woven 100% cotton that was washed after each use,it might be plausible.

When one talks about mask mandates then are actually out in public or seeing state leaders or other politicians,95% are not even wearing them correctly.

[Richard]

In this instance, and in many others related to government / policy, there are simply no "solutions," only trade-offs. The legislature exists to determine if the trade-offs of any particular policy decision makes sense across the body politic.

The governor, or by extension the health department, unilaterally shutting down businesses based on no criteria at all is a trade-off that many people deem unacceptable. This is because the lockdown measures [[the who, what, where, when, why) seem completely arbitrary and the governor has never attempted to explain why certain things are allowed / not allowed.

Why should an elected official be able to determine unilaterally that one legal business can operate when others can't? Do lockdowns actually "save lives" or do they just delay the inevitable? If YOUR business was going to be lost forever due to an arbitrary mandated shutdown, that may or may not impact the health of the community, would you feel the same way?

Like all policy debates, there is a very select few among us able to actually understand both sides of an argument and think rationally, thus the tribal mentality.

The harsh reality is,are we willing to sacrifice 10 lives to save 1.

The metrics of the shutdowns and how they effected people across all walks of life could very well be a lot more devastating then we know or realize at this time.

One is home owners that received a mortgage forbearance back in March,they are getting a rude awaking now because they do not find out at closing and until the the check is written if they are now selling the house.

People that had rent and utilities deferred and then lost thier job are now ending up in the street,food lines that used to see 300 a month are approaching 10,000 per month.

Like in this case of an immediate lockdown,employees living paycheck to paycheck are now told do not come to work tomorrow,what happens to them next week?

The intricate aspect of how people are effected is deep,the worst thing people can say is if you do not do this you will be dead from the virus.

That is the worst thing one can say to somebody that has lost everything without no hope on the horizon because you just planted that seed in their mind that they would be better off dead.

I am out there everyday,have been from the start,the stress level of business owners and employees from the not knowing what is happening from one day to the next,ot is so crazy I want to shut down until it all blows over,I am fortunate to have that luxury.

But I also remember the lean times from back when,raising a family and not knowing from one day to the next what the next day will bring,it’s not a very good feeling.

At the very least try and take a step back and try to understand why people are doing what they are doing,some are also fighting for their lives and it is a time where them dying from some virus is pretty far down on that list of what keeps them going.

Think about that,people are on edge,stressing out,unsure of what their future will bring tomorrow and now we say it is in your best interest that we isolate you from the only link to sanity,which is being able to socialize and talk to others,or simply being among others.

Does anybody honestly believe that those in that situation really care if you demand they isolate in order to save others life’s when they feel theirs no longer exists?

Does no good to talk about compassion when ones does not practice it.

[bibs]

It all boils down to control. Republicans tend to be bi-polar control freaks and anti regulation as well as anti big government. They want to ban abortion [[control) but don't you dare tell me to wear a mask or regulate my gun! Democrats tend to regulate until you can't do anything and love social programs. Having both sides meet some where in the middle usually produces the best legislation.

If you want to see what happens when you have a Republican governor during a pandemic then look to North and South Dakota. ND has the highest covid moratlity rate in the world. I read an article today that patients in South Dakota are denying that they have covid even though they are dying from it. Claiming they they have pneumonia. Alcoholics and drug addicts do the same thing. They deny they have a problem and usually it ends up killing them.

People are angry and they are projecting their anger onto the governor. If you want to be angry at someone, you should look to China. I bet most people haven't even stopped buying Chinese products in relatiation. Nope, lets go after the governor because she is impacting our lives while trying to keep the bodies from piling up in the hospital. They are just looking for scape goat.

[detroitbob]

Why?

[Danny]

"don't you dare tell me to wear a mask or regulate my gun! Democrats tend to regulate until you can't do anything and love social programs.

Wearing a mask save lives from COVID-19. And gun control saves lives. Less you want to take off you mask and infect people while exposing yourself. Or have a gun for your own protection unless you want to be a yahoo and shoot people out of their misery. That is assault and murder!

[CassTechGrad]

Get over it guy’s, everybody is always going to refer to it as “Whitmer’s shut-down” in the same way that everybody uses the term “Trump’s Muslims travel ban”. Even after the Supreme Court ruled in Trump’s favor on this issue in 2018, all the media continued to use the “travel ban” term. Just let it go and move on.

[Eastside...]

Seems we all have a different definition of "compassion".
The whole of this is so disheartening. We have devolved into a culture of selfishness.

[softailrider]

It all boils down to control. Republicans tend to be bi-polar control freaks and anti regulation as well as anti big government. They want to ban abortion [[control) but don't you dare tell me to wear a mask or regulate my gun! Democrats tend to regulate until you can't do anything and love social programs. Having both sides meet some where in the middle usually produces the best legislation.

If you want to see what happens when you have a Republican governor during a pandemic then look to North and South Dakota. ND has the highest covid moratlity rate in the world. I read an article today that patients in South Dakota are denying that they have covid even though they are dying from it. Claiming they they have pneumonia. Alcoholics and drug addicts do the same thing. They deny they have a problem and usually it ends up killing them.

People are angry and they are projecting their anger onto the governor. If you want to be angry at someone, you should look to China. I bet most people haven't even stopped buying Chinese products in relatiation. Nope, lets go after the governor because she is impacting our lives while trying to keep the bodies from piling up in the hospital. They are just looking for scape goat.

In agreement with your last paragraph, where is the outrage over this virus that originated in China?

[Scottathew]

In agreement with your last paragraph, where is the outrage over this virus that originated in China?

What was China supposed to do? I don't understand the China-hate. They were hit first and reacted the most strongly with the strongest lockdowns plus they were able to build new hospitals in just days. They probably could have done a better job information-sharing.

I don't understand the China-shaming/anger. Are we now going to figure out where every illness originated and blame the people there? It doesn't make sense. Are we going to start blaming Africa for the weather because hurricanes start to form over there? Are we going to blame Greenland because their glaciers are melting?

China does a lot of things wrong that we can be critical of, but simply having the virus originate there isn't one of them.

[401don]

What was China supposed to do? I don't understand the China-hate. They were hit first and reacted the most strongly with the strongest lockdowns plus they were able to build new hospitals in just days. They probably could have done a better job information-sharing.

I don't understand the China-shaming/anger. Are we now going to figure out where every illness originated and blame the people there? It doesn't make sense. Are we going to start blaming Africa for the weather because hurricanes start to form over there? Are we going to blame Greenland because their glaciers are melting?

China does a lot of things wrong that we can be critical of, but simply having the virus originate there isn't one of them.

China, along with many other countries, is rightfully outraged at the current U.S. administration for not admitting climate change even exits, never mind acting on it. That has the potential to kill a lot more people in the long run.

[EastsideAl]

What was China supposed to do? I don't understand the China-hate. They were hit first and reacted the most strongly with the strongest lockdowns plus they were able to build new hospitals in just days. They probably could have done a better job information-sharing.

I don't understand the China-shaming/anger. Are we now going to figure out where every illness originated and blame the people there? It doesn't make sense. Are we going to start blaming Africa for the weather because hurricanes start to form over there? Are we going to blame Greenland because their glaciers are melting?

China does a lot of things wrong that we can be critical of, but simply having the virus originate there isn't one of them.

Easier to blame some foreign 'yellow peril' for our problems than it is to admit that overgrown American adult children just need to suck it up and wear masks and stay out of crowded indoor spaces.

Of course, if you're actually paying attention to China it shouldn't pass notice that, even though they have a much larger and denser population than we have, and were hit hard by this disease before anyone knew what it was, their infection and death rates have been much lower than ours for quite some time now. As indeed is the case for much of the rest of East Asia [[South Korea, Taiwan, Japan).

[Richard]

China is 100% government controlled,no way anybody is going to know exactly what their rates are outside of what they want you to know.

The biggest issue here is implementing a lockdown without a plan in place for financial support like it was in March.

[jcole]

And where is the Republican led legislature offering a solution that will supercede what the Governor is trying to do. They offer no plan, no solution except "Impeach the Governor" when all they do is sit on their hands at their homes because they don't want to go to Lansing and catch Covid. They need to give a plan to control this virus or shut the fuck up and help her with what she is doing. They have presented NOTHING but platitudes about "trusting the public to do what's right". When has THAT ever happened?

China is 100% government controlled,no way anybody is going to know exactly what their rates are outside of what they want you to know.

The biggest issue here is implementing a lockdown without a plan in place for financial support like it was in March.

[Richard]

And where is the Republican led legislature offering a solution that will supercede what the Governor is trying to do. They offer no plan, no solution except "Impeach the Governor" when all they do is sit on their hands at their homes because they don't want to go to Lansing and catch Covid. They need to give a plan to control this virus or shut the fuck up and help her with what she is doing. They have presented NOTHING but platitudes about "trusting the public to do what's right". When has THAT ever happened?

Actually it would go like this.

The governor appoints a state task force
The task force comes up with a plan
The plan gets sent to the legislature for approval
The plan gets tweaked and improved
The governor implements the plan.

Outside of that she has certain emergency powers that can be implemented outside of the legislature,she did not need their help from the start.

Actually the state like every other state was already supposed to have a plan in case of something like this happening.

The legislature does not have the authority to create a plan.

So really not much they can do but sit in their hands until they are presented with something to approve or disapprove on the legal side of things.

Maybe you should be asking the governor what her plan is outside of lockdowns.

This all started in January,so its 11 months into it with no plan?

Did not learn nothing from the first rodeo?

She is the governor,buck stops there,remember,playing the blame game is what cost lives the first time and now it’s like everybody forgot.

Here is an explanation of how the state legislature works and the powers they have.

https://classroom.synonym.com/the-3-types-of-branches-of-the-us-government-12082755.html

They could enact some kind of law but that process takes from 1 to 3 years to implement.

That is why governors are granted emergency powers.It speeds up the process.

[Zacha341]

Dig it! And I said earlier there are not a few Detroiter's not feeling her on many levels. Not just the right-wing!

Get over it guy’s, everybody is always going to refer to it as “Whitmer’s shut-down” in the same way that everybody uses the term “Trump’s Muslims travel ban”. Even after the Supreme Court ruled in Trump’s favor on this issue in 2018, all the media continued to use the “travel ban” term. Just let it go and move on.

[softailrider]

What was China supposed to do? I don't understand the China-hate. They were hit first and reacted the most strongly with the strongest lockdowns plus they were able to build new hospitals in just days. They probably could have done a better job information-sharing.

I don't understand the China-shaming/anger. Are we now going to figure out where every illness originated and blame the people there? It doesn't make sense. Are we going to start blaming Africa for the weather because hurricanes start to form over there? Are we going to blame Greenland because their glaciers are melting?

China does a lot of things wrong that we can be critical of, but simply having the virus originate there isn't one of them.

I don't think that China is innocent in this at all. From everything I have read, It has been proven without a doubt that the Coronavirus originated there. Maybe it came out of a bat cave or the barbaric wet market in Wuhan. It has not been disproven that it was cooked up and leaked out a lab in Wuhan. There is no question that the Chinese covered this mess up in the beginning. Comparing this to hurricanes forming near Africa is, in my opinion, a huge stretch.