Livernois’s Ave of Fashion

[royce]

Some of you here are new to this topic. I've wrote about the Avenue of Fashion multiple times. There are two issues that exist that may explain it's current status. The first one deals with logistics. Has anyone ever noticed that retail and commercial businesses are located along the mile roads in most of Metro Detroit? Seven Mile for the most part follows this concept except between Woodward and Wyoming. Residential exists along this thoroughfare, leaving Livernois and Wyoming as the streets to carry the retail. The problem is that because the residential runs parallel to Livernois, there are few streets for residents to travel along, either walking or driving, that get you easy access to the Avenue of Fashion. As a result, you have very little pedestrian traffic that could support the businesses along the Avenue. Also, with all of the winding streets in Sherwood Forest and Palmer Park, it's just not easy for residents to walk to the Avenue of Fashion.

What the Avenue of Fashion needs is more residential. Tear down some of the buildings that are designed for retail and build some four story apartments/condos. The development at the corner of Seven Mile and Livernois attempts to address this issue. Why not build residential right across the street from there where that huge one story building resides. The last I recall, it was a church, but I don't know if it's still being used as such. Also, build a four story building across from the Sherwood Grille. Book-ending that area with residential apartments/condos would give the area the needed foot traffic.

The second issue with the prosperity of the Avenue of Fashion has to do with the kind of retail that has generally been there and how it is perceived by those who live in the area. I attended U-D Mercy back in the early 80s and the wig shops and art galleries were there back then. Given the history of the Avenue of Fashion, I can understand the draw of these two businesses. Wigs were a big thing with my mom's generation in the 70s and early 80s. This was a big thing for "African American women." Some of your wealthiest African American woman lived in Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods, and the University District. If I was a wig store owner, why wouldn't I want to set up shop on the Avenue of Fashion? Also, if I knew that there were wealthy African Americans living in that area who had disposable income, why wouldn't I open up an art gallery store that promoted African American art? So, that explains why those businesses ended up there.

I'm sure that there are some other dynamics that explain why there's not more retail along that area. However, I just might have explained it. Who knows?

[softailrider]

You must not have been on that street for years. All kind of revitalization going on there now. It's on the comeback and is busy like it use to be.

I was there a few months ago to get a carry out from Bucharest. I did see some street work going on but wasn’t paying a lot of attention. Nothing struck me as being dramatically different, but I must have missed the good changes. I’ll take another ride through there before the week is out, with my eyes open this time.

[stasu1213]

Some of you here are new to this topic. I've wrote about the Avenue of Fashion multiple times. There are two issues that exist that may explain it's current status. The first one deals with logistics. Has anyone ever noticed that retail and commercial businesses are located along the mile roads in most of Metro Detroit? Seven Mile for the most part follows this concept except between Woodward and Wyoming. Residential exists along this thoroughfare, leaving Livernois and Wyoming as the streets to carry the retail. The problem is that because the residential runs parallel to Livernois, there are few streets for residents to travel along, either walking or driving, that get you easy access to the Avenue of Fashion. As a result, you have very little pedestrian traffic that could support the businesses along the Avenue. Also, with all of the winding streets in Sherwood Forest and Palmer Park, it's just not easy for residents to walk to the Avenue of Fashion.

What the Avenue of Fashion needs is more residential. Tear down some of the buildings that are designed for retail and build some four story apartments/condos. The development at the corner of Seven Mile and Livernois attempts to address this issue. Why not build residential right across the street from there where that huge one story building resides. The last I recall, it was a church, but I don't know if it's still being used as such. Also, build a four story building across from the Sherwood Grille. Book-ending that area with residential apartments/condos would give the area the needed foot traffic.

The second issue with the prosperity of the Avenue of Fashion has to do with the kind of retail that has generally been there and how it is perceived by those who live in the area. I attended U-D Mercy back in the early 80s and the wig shops and art galleries were there back then. Given the history of the Avenue of Fashion, I can understand the draw of these two businesses. Wigs were a big thing with my mom's generation in the 70s and early 80s. This was a big thing for "African American women." Some of your wealthiest African American woman lived in Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods, and the University District. If I was a wig store owner, why wouldn't I want to set up shop on the Avenue of Fashion? Also, if I knew that there were wealthy African Americans living in that area who had disposable income, why wouldn't I open up an art gallery store that promoted African American art? So, that explains why those businesses ended up there.

I'm sure that there are some other dynamics that explain why there's not more retail along that area. However, I just might have explained it. Who knows?

Totally disagree. Their are neighborhoods that run into Avenue of Fashion or Livernois such as Sherwood Forest. Green Acres is not that far from the strip. Both are within walking distance especially Sherwood Forest. There is income from neighboring communities surrounding The Avenue of Fashion that could support a middlle to high end retail. Old Woodward in Birmingham and Main Street in Royal Oak are not on main drags in their cities but have retails the drawn out the people who live in the surrounding communities. You dont need to raze any structures along the Avenue of Fashion to make way for fly by night development that would probably bring in low income apartments further destroying the area

[JonWylie]

Totally disagree. Their are neighborhoods that run into Avenue of Fashion or Livernois such as Sherwood Forest. Green Acres is not that far from the strip. Both are within walking distance especially Sherwood Forest. There is income from neighboring communities surrounding The Avenue of Fashion that could support a middlle to high end retail. Old Woodward in Birmingham and Main Street in Royal Oak are not on main drags in their cities but have retails the drawn out the people who live in the surrounding communities. You dont need to raze any structures along the Avenue of Fashion to make way for fly by night development that would probably bring in low income apartments further destroying the area

I think you could bring in multi-family housing without making it low income. I think some well done 3-4 story buildings right on the avenue would have a positive impact, similar to what we are seeing on Woodward in New Center, just north of the rail tracks. The corner of Liv-7 mile is a good start with a mixed use building of good architectural standard, but I think the area could see more. You could target UDM grad students as possible tenants willing to pay a little more and be close to campus.

[softailrider]

You must not have been on that street for years. All kind of revitalization going on there now. It's on the comeback and is busy like it use to be.

Took a ride down there today, picked up lunch at Boston Market. That area looks significantly better then I remember it. There are still some choppy spots but there is a night and day difference between the way it looks now compared to a few years ago.

[softailrider]

You must not have been on that street for years. All kind of revitalization going on there now. It's on the comeback and is busy like it use to be.

Took a ride down there today, picked up lunch at Boston Market. That area looks significantly better then I remember it. There are still some choppy spots but there is a night and day difference between the way it looks now compared to a few years ago.

[ABetterDetroit]

I think the city did a beautiful job on the streetscape for the Avenue. The timing for the completion couldn’t be worse due to Covid but that certainly wasn’t predictable.

The neighborhood that this improvement should most benefit is Bagley. Bagley is a critically important area to spend capital improvements benefiting as it is one of the largest, densest, intact middle class neighborhoods remaining in the city. Hopefully when the pandemic is behind us this project pays off with more eateries and retail. Patience will be required for a while on the new business front.

[Danny]

Avenue of Fashion was built in the mid 1920s following the developments of Bagley, University Homes, Palmer Park, Palmer Woods and Green Acres. It was once a glamourous fashion district strip from Curtis St. to 8 Mile Rd through W. 7 Mile Rd. and Livernois St. in Detroit's Northwest. Strips of fashion shops all over. That's until white folks started to move away and middle income black folks from the west side started moving in. However there are few white folks are living there today. Avenue of Fashion Commercial District is went downhill just a bit even into the late 2010's When City of Detroit made several changes to their streetscapes. Now the streetscape is done and new corner building project is finish and new exotic business started to move in. And hopefully they will survive through COVID-19 Pandemic.

[veryhotair]

I live in Bagley, pretty much at 7 & Livernois, and I can attest to the vast improvements that the new streetscape brings to the Avenue. The corridor has a new life and you can't drive down Livernois on a Friday/Saturday night without being stuck in traffic and seeing the bars full. I always see people biking or walking down the sidewalk. The coffee and bake shops are bustling. The fashion stores seem to be doing well. And I still see storefronts being developed, there's a new restaurant opening up at Clarita soon [[where Table No. 2 used to be, which sadly closed when the building owner didn't renew the lease). I love this neighborhood, it's certainly the place to be right now.

[stasu1213]

You must not have been on that street for years. All kind of revitalization going on there now. It's on the comeback and is busy like it use to be.

It was busy before construction and the same atmosphere is there afterwards. I find that the 9 mile strip in Ferndale is more exciting, safer, and more forward moving in retail than Avenue of Fashion

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I’d have to agree that some residential development on Livernois could be a great catalyst and result in a nice increase in activity. I hope the project at 7 Mile is successful and encourages more.

i wonder, however, how anything above 2 or 3 floors would be received by folks on the western end of the University District, Sherwood Forest or Green Acres.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

It was busy before construction and the same atmosphere is there afterwards. I find that the 9 mile strip in Ferndale is more exciting, safer, and more forward moving in retail than Avenue of Fashion

Being safer is subjective. I've heard of instances of crime in Ferndale too.

[Satiricalivory]

It was busy before construction and the same atmosphere is there afterwards. I find that the 9 mile strip in Ferndale is more exciting, safer, and more forward moving in retail than Avenue of Fashion

What? 9 mile in Ferndale is like one single block of retail. Livernois is already better than that.

And can we cut the "safer" stuff, we all know that's nothing but a dog whistle.

[JonWylie]

I’d have to agree that some residential development on Livernois could be a great catalyst and result in a nice increase in activity. I hope the project at 7 Mile is successful and encourages more.

i wonder, however, how anything above 2 or 3 floors would be received by folks on the western end of the University District, Sherwood Forest or Green Acres.

I would assume 2-3 stories, maybe 4, would be about all that area would tolerate, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe a few taller things towards UDM.