Proposal N would mean tearing down 8K homes...

**iheartthed** · September-09-20, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Me? Not much of a sprawl guy. I like my Hamtramck better than Troy.

But controlling sprawl means reducing the supply of housing [[or land to build thereon). No sprawl sounds great. More expensive housing not so great.

We're lucky to live somewhere that housing costs are reasonable. Beautiful, mostly peaceful, and sprawl controlled Portland median home value $467,000. Detroit? $36k. And my charming, dense Hamtramck, $106k.

Sprawl rocks.

But the cost to maintain a house in Detroit isn't much different from what it costs in Portland. Imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $36,000. Now imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $467,000. That's why Detroit has a problem with abandonment.

**Onthe405** · September-09-20, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

But the cost to maintain a house in Detroit isn't much different from what it costs in Portland. Imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $36,000. Now imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $467,000. That's why Detroit has a problem with abandonment.

In the same vein, in cities like Portland, purchasing a home is an appreciating investment. If I bought that same house worth $467k for $265k seven years ago, I'd be mighty pleased with the ROI.

Inexpensive real estate is no different than inexpensive shares of stock. Unless there's some potential for the value to increase, it's OK for maintaining the status quo, but weak as a wealth builder.

**iheartthed** · September-09-20, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Onthe405

Inexpensive real estate is no different than inexpensive shares of stock. Unless there's some potential for the value to increase, it's OK for maintaining the status quo, but weak as a wealth builder.

I don't agree with this analogy. A stock doesn't have fixed maintenance costs. Holding a piece of stock will never cost you more than the stock is worth. Owning a house in Detroit that needs repair often costs the owner more than the house is worth.

**ABetterDetroit** · September-09-20, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't agree with this analogy. A stock doesn't have fixed maintenance costs. Holding a piece of stock will never cost you more than the stock is worth. Owning a house in Detroit that needs repair often costs the owner more than the house is worth.

This is a part of the problem. Detroit needs the values of residential property to appreciate. Appreciation is what gives a homeowner a stake, it builds wealth and teaches financial discipline. Especially for first time home owners. Without appreciation a majority of the neighborhoods will decline and just become a larger slumlords paradise. Slumlords will continue the cycle of buying cheap renting until collapse of the house and then walk away and stick the the rest of us with the blight.

The anti Detroit mentality in this state needs to end. If it doesn’t in 20 years the next generation will be trying to figure out what the hell to do with all the abandoned houses in Inkster, Roseville, Warren, Redford etc... Stop picking winners and losers. Create conditions where everyone wins. Other states do it.

The property taxes are way to high in the most challenged communities especially Detroit. The construction gap never closes. The housing values fall or stagnate and become impossible to mortgage. That is the kiss of death.

**iheartthed** · September-09-20, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

The anti Detroit mentality in this state needs to end. If it doesn’t in 20 years the next generation will be trying to figure out what the hell to do with all the abandoned houses in Inkster, Roseville, Warren, Redford etc...

Another point that this reminded me of is that this isn't only a residential property issue. The creep of abandonment is already showing up in commercial real estate of inner ring suburbs. Almost the entire area around Northland appears to be abandoned now. There are also abandoned commercial properties dotting Dearborn and Livonia.

**bust** · September-18-20, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

The anti Detroit mentality in this state needs to end. If it doesn’t in 20 years the next generation will be trying to figure out what the hell to do with all the abandoned houses in Inkster, Roseville, Warren, Redford etc... Stop picking winners and losers. Create conditions where everyone wins. Other states do it.

And stop pitting county against county, and township against city.
Sprawl is an intense drain on our resources.
Just like we shouldn't have to pay higher home insurance rates because some others insist they deserve to insure their second home on a sandbar far away.
If you insist to build where you're a drain, pay up.
The rest of us shouldn't shoulder the burden.

**Danny** · September-13-20, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

But the cost to maintain a house in Detroit isn't much different from what it costs in Portland. Imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $36,000. Now imagine spending $15,000 to upgrade a kitchen on a house worth $467,000. That's why Detroit has a problem with abandonment.

Detroit today is still a poor city, with poor ghettohoods, with businesses in its main roads, with poor school districts. It's hard to maintain any Detroit home that was built more since the 1890s to 1970s. 38 percent of Detroit residents are poor living on welfare checks and food stamps and WIC with more single families having up to 5 children. Most Detroit homes are still controlled by slumlords. It's hard to maintain a Detroit home with you do not have a steady salary based job and dirt poor.

**Dumpling** · September-13-20, 08:19 AM

Especially since a resounding majority of the Detroit police force
and police retirees don't live within the city limits, it is hoped that
the State of Michigan legislature is moved soon to allocate funding
towards their pensions and police pensions statewide. If the State
of Michigan does do that, that would help blight management within
the city.

Indeed, recruiting for the police from all areas and not just
within Detroit can result in a more diverse and talented force,
but care must be taken to not recruit those who lean towards
genocide of "The Other". There are genocide studies to be
consulted. Genocides don't just pop out of nowhere. There
are lead-up stages that can be studied and hopefully averted.

Here is a sample from academia on that topic:

https://www.keene.edu/academics/ah/c...cide/download/

**Danny** · September-13-20, 09:23 AM

Today there are over 120,000 vacant homes in Detroit. About 20,000 Detroit homes are restored. That leaves about 80,000 homes in Detroit needs to be either torn down or fix up. Bringing in $250 mills just to torn down 8,000 homes sounds fishy! The average cost of demolishing a vacant or abandon Detroit home is about $31,000 per land. Where is the rest of millions go. And it can not be for something else other then using that money just to tear down 8K Detroit ghettohood homes.

Still vote HELL NO on Proposal N.

**bust** · September-18-20, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

Especially since a resounding majority of the Detroit police force
and police retirees don't live within the city limits, it is hoped that
the State of Michigan legislature is moved soon to allocate funding
towards their pensions and police pensions statewide. If the State
of Michigan does do that, that would help blight management within
the city.

Indeed, recruiting for the police from all areas and not just
within Detroit can result in a more diverse and talented force,
but care must be taken to not recruit those who lean towards
genocide of "The Other". There are genocide studies to be
consulted. Genocides don't just pop out of nowhere. There
are lead-up stages that can be studied and hopefully averted.

Here is a sample from academia on that topic:

https://www.keene.edu/academics/ah/c...cide/download/

Thanks for sharing this.
Not to diminish the issue, because I recognize it causes far worse problems than I'm about to describe, but it's been a long-running source of entertainment [[at least for me) to see a tourist ask a NYC police officer for directions. The officer almost never has a clue.
There's no residency requirement in NYC either.
I have [[only somewhat) mixed feelings about a requirement, but when a requirement exists police are much more in touch with the community they serve.
Maybe there's a way to incentivize city residency with some kind of differential in pay or another benefit.
I know that's been tried in Detroit before, with credits offered to those who move into the city.
But maybe they were different times? And maybe it's worth trying some combination of a carrot and a stick?