Proposal N would mean tearing down 8K homes...

[Dumpling]

Okay, what happened with the Detroit Land Bank in your instance? It
sounds as if you own a house in Detroit and had one adjacent house
demolished, but then there was another house that was a Land Bank
house that you could not purchase in order to demolish?

Do you think Proposal N is a good one to vote YES on?

Thank you!

[bust]

The real problem is the overwhelming size of the issue.

No other city is doing this. However, no other city has 90,000 tax foreclosed residential properties in their landbank. No other city has almost 20,000 empty residential buildings in the landbank. [[that doesn't include the vacant delipidated houses still in private hands.) The second closest is Cleveland with under 8,000 properties in their landbank. No other city in the world has an issue like this.

The landbank doesn't have the funds to mothball all the vacant property in it's possession. They don't even have the funds to keep the lots mowed after the last set of budget cuts they were hit with. So the bond money is needed to stabilize half of these derelict houses and tear the worst ones down.

If you can figure out a way to get all those houses back into tax paying use, they wouldn't need to tear them down. If you bought one it would help the city.

I'm totally with you except the "No other city in the world has an issue like this" part.
There are even worse problems of abandonment if you look some places overseas, while the contexts are different.
And it doesn't detract from your argument. Everything else is correct.

[bust]

I would suggest that the city [[and region) address the actual problem, which has been obvious for decades: sprawl.

Hell yes!
And its impetuses.

[bust]

These properties would be unsellable if the land bank didn't get rid of the liens. No developer would go through the costs and headaches of clearing these liens.

Yep. It's why when someone somewhere says "But you can buy a home for $1200 in Detroit" I shake my head. And they keep on saying it.

[bust]

I wish they'd carve out perhaps a couple of million a year for routine litter, debris and garbage cleanup on the interstates, interchanges, exits/on-ramps, thoroughfares, and parks. That would elevate the perception of the city just as much as demolitions.

Really?
That would be nice and I don't mean to offend but let's not prioritize the people who only pass through Detroit on an expressway cut to and from the airport.
I know a few of those. They only see the tops of some houses and churches, if they look.

[Dumpling]

This is a different year. Buses of people doing roadside cleanups
as part of their community service requirement this year are fewer.
There is more litter on the right of ways, too.

We are just happy that extra trash from people staying at home
more is being picked up for now.

[bust]

Me? Not much of a sprawl guy. I like my Hamtramck better than Troy.

But controlling sprawl means reducing the supply of housing [[or land to build thereon). No sprawl sounds great. More expensive housing not so great.

We're lucky to live somewhere that housing costs are reasonable. Beautiful, mostly peaceful, and sprawl controlled Portland median home value $467,000. Detroit? $36k. And my charming, dense Hamtramck, $106k.

Sprawl rocks.

This is ridiculous.
The cost differential between Portand and Detroit / Hamtramck has nothing to do with any regulations about sprawl.
Besides, who do you think pays the most when new roads must be built and utility companies need to keep expanding their infrastructure further and further into the exurbs-- the ones who need sufficient water pressure to serve their mcmansion on reclaimed farmland or those who never left the city and whose water mains break from the increased pressure? The ones who need new lines to be built to deliver their utilities or the ones whose infrastructure has long existed? As road and utility networks grow wider are they more or less expensive to maintain? Who pays and who benefits?
The answer is easy: city dwellers subsidize the exurbs in rates and taxes that wouldn't otherwise be necessary. It's a zero sum game.

[bust]

The anti Detroit mentality in this state needs to end. If it doesn’t in 20 years the next generation will be trying to figure out what the hell to do with all the abandoned houses in Inkster, Roseville, Warren, Redford etc... Stop picking winners and losers. Create conditions where everyone wins. Other states do it.

And stop pitting county against county, and township against city.
Sprawl is an intense drain on our resources.
Just like we shouldn't have to pay higher home insurance rates because some others insist they deserve to insure their second home on a sandbar far away.
If you insist to build where you're a drain, pay up.
The rest of us shouldn't shoulder the burden.

[bust]

Especially since a resounding majority of the Detroit police force
and police retirees don't live within the city limits, it is hoped that
the State of Michigan legislature is moved soon to allocate funding
towards their pensions and police pensions statewide. If the State
of Michigan does do that, that would help blight management within
the city.

Indeed, recruiting for the police from all areas and not just
within Detroit can result in a more diverse and talented force,
but care must be taken to not recruit those who lean towards
genocide of "The Other". There are genocide studies to be
consulted. Genocides don't just pop out of nowhere. There
are lead-up stages that can be studied and hopefully averted.

Here is a sample from academia on that topic:

https://www.keene.edu/academics/ah/c...cide/download/

Thanks for sharing this.
Not to diminish the issue, because I recognize it causes far worse problems than I'm about to describe, but it's been a long-running source of entertainment [[at least for me) to see a tourist ask a NYC police officer for directions. The officer almost never has a clue.
There's no residency requirement in NYC either.
I have [[only somewhat) mixed feelings about a requirement, but when a requirement exists police are much more in touch with the community they serve.
Maybe there's a way to incentivize city residency with some kind of differential in pay or another benefit.
I know that's been tried in Detroit before, with credits offered to those who move into the city.
But maybe they were different times? And maybe it's worth trying some combination of a carrot and a stick?

[bust]

Remodeling isn't my wheelhouse in the least but I do know that
metro Detroit abounds with craftspeople and do-it-yourselfers who
can work wonders even given a smaller remodeling budget.

Yes, this.
I do a lot of my own improvements, and not just more affordably, almost always [[not always) better than if I'd contracted.
Even though it always takes me much longer.
And there are some things I know better than to try myself.

[Tig3rzhark]

There are plenty of places that some of my family members live, that are nearby those abandoned houses, that should have been torn down long ago.

But for some reason, they can't be torn down.

Proposal N can solve that problem.

Then there's the history of the city of Detroit mismanagement of funds. Taking out too many bonds is what got us into emergency management.

Which leaves me the question on whether the city would do what they say they would do.

The city council almost passed it themselves before a public hearing was held that filled out the entire Auditorium at the CAYMC.

I was there, and there was a lot of pissed-off folks.
Now it's left to Detroiters to decide whether this bond is worth issuing out, and then spend 30 years to pay out.

By the time that bond is paid, I'll be dead.

[Zacha341]

Whatever the proposal I wonder when they will ever get around to tearing down this burnt-out hulk of an apartment building in H. Park?

[Dumpling]

That building was a gem among many on Woodward Avenue.
It was a highlight of the bus commute tapestry from Royal Oak
to Wayne State University when I lived in Royal Oak and attended
WSU.

[Seven&wyo]

That building was a gem among many on Woodward Avenue.
It was a highlight of the bus commute tapestry from Royal Oak
to Wayne State University when I lived in Royal Oak and attended
WSU.

I hope that biding can be saved. If it were in Detroit I think it could be but being in highland Park I fear it may be doomed.

[Tig3rzhark]

Whatever the proposal I wonder when they will ever get around to tearing down this burnt-out hulk of an apartment building in H. Park?

Unfortunately, that proposal only works for the city of Detroit. I wonder if there's anything that Highland Park can do now. Do they even have a government left?

[Danny]

Proposal N means NOTHING! vote NO on N.

[Pontiac6000]

How much would it cost to tear down everything that can't be saved? Why didn't this get budgeted in the bankruptcy?

[Dumpling]

How much does it cost to tear down one blighted house in metro Detroit in 2020?

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...nd/5490507002/

This article projects that the bond amount is $250 million and the interest amount is $240 million to be paid over 30 years.

Elsewhere it is noted that $160 million will be allocated to the demolition of 8,000 houses which is not the full number of all houses that need it
which is thought to be 14,000 houses.

$160 million for 8,000 houses to be demolished
comes to $20,000 per house. Is this a fair, current
adjusted market rate for a demolition? The cited bond
interest rates are at least 3% and as high as 6.58%.
Let's say for the argument that the City of Detroit will
need to pay 5% interest over 30 years on the $20,000
to demolish one house.

I'm thinking personally I will abstain from voting on Proposal N. A
lot of blocks would really benefit from having their blighted houses
torn down - this is very, very true. I'm just not convinced that
Proposal N is the way forward.

[Dumpling]

For that one house demolition at $20,000, with a payback period
of 30 years, and with interest being at 5%, the grand total amount
being paid overall is $38,651.16. [[Determined using a
"mortgage calculator" tool elsewhere on the Web.)

Oh well of course there will be inflation during the thirty years so the effective grand total will be less.

[LongGone06]

This is ridiculous.
The cost differential between Portand and Detroit / Hamtramck has nothing to do with any regulations about sprawl.

It's not ridiculous at all. Portland's Urban Growth Boundary has long been blamed for having the unintended consequence of high land/home values.

[Vic01]

It's not ridiculous at all. Portland's Urban Growth Boundary has long been blamed for having the unintended consequence of high land/home values.

I just took a quick read on "Portland's Urban Growth Boundary". It looks like their Governor had foresight and got the ball rolling around 1973, the it was formalized and adopted cooperatively by more governmental bodies, and cities in the mid/late 1970's.
In my skim of the material, it seems to make a lot of sense. However, locally at this point it's coulda, woulda, shoulda... A great many things could've gone differently "if only", yet here we are.
Short of a time machine taking us all back 50 years with the hope that we'd have some of that foresight and develop with better planning/control, what are we to do?
We can't go back, a "boundary" now would be irrelevant, and unenforceable, with all the people people spread out, both within Detroit city limits [[with all it's open spaces) and throughout the populated sprawl zones, how would we reverse that and force [[I use that word because it would likely take that) people to move back within a smaller radius of Detroit?

It may well be much more practical to learn how to work together Regionally to improve what we currently have... I know, slim chance, right? Still more likely than a time machine turning back 50 years of history.

[bust]

The Urban Growth Boundary was a great idea.

As for the allegation it has resulted in higher home prices, that's more because people moving into Portland want to actually live in Portland, not one of its suburbs-- and they want to live in one of a few specific Portland neighborhoods. It was a sundown town and it wasn't so long ago some people wanted to make Oregon a white ethno state, and it's still hella segregated.

But look outside the most desirable neighborhoods and you can buy a 3 bedroom 2 full bath home within city limits only a 20 minute drive from downtown for the same price as something comparable in Clawson or Livonia. Or, if you're willing to live in a suburb, still within the urban growth boundary, you can get even more for less.

People moving into Portland want the cosmopolitan multi-ethnic ideal they've been hearing about [[so long as they're not overwhelmed by it). They don't want Clackamas, they want a home in one of a few particular areas, where they've driven the prices up, and up. Even though if they were willing to forego their cultural standards they could get a lot more home for their buck outside city limits, and still be 20 minutes from downtown.

How long does it take to drive to Campus Martius from West Bloomfield, Canton Twp, Clinton Twp, Farmington, or Grosse Ile? Have you ever compared home prices equally distant from Portland?

The cost differential between Portland and Detroit/Hamtramck has to do with culture, and what the people moving in want. They want safety and diversity, and they'll pay a premium to avoid Proud Boys and MAGA hats-- not always easy. If they're parents they'll pay an even steeper premium for good schools.

Portland's Urban Growth Boundary has spared it from spreading unabated further and further into its hinterlands, and has encouraged reinvestment in the city. It makes it better.

Vic01 is right: If only Detroit could turn back the clock.

Not only does a growth boundary encourage reinvestment, it encourages density which encourages efficiencies that otherwise may not be practical. It discourages wasteful excess. And it discourages certain malevolent cultures that thrive under the us-vs-them mentality that characterizes sprawl.

Homes in Detroit and Hamtramck are relatively affordable. But on average they're a dubious investment and in many respects they're in comparison not a better place to live.

Pick a year, any year, and it's very likely that someone who bought a home in Portland that year would be better off. If maybe not for the culture in the neighborhood they found.

Signs are that trend will continue.

[Danny]

VOTE NO ON N because Proposal N means nothing for our Detroit ghetto hoods.

I'm Danny and I'm approve this message.

[LongGone06]

The Urban Growth Boundary was a great idea.

As for the allegation it has resulted in higher home prices, that's more because people moving into Portland want to actually live in Portland, not one of its suburbs

I didn't say it was bad. I didn't say it was good. I merely pointed out that Portland's UGB has been blamed for driving up land and home prices. Whether or not you agree with the statement doesn't make it any less true.

[Danny]

Okay, what happened with the Detroit Land Bank in your instance? It
sounds as if you own a house in Detroit and had one adjacent house
demolished, but then there was another house that was a Land Bank
house that you could not purchase in order to demolish?

Do you think Proposal N is a good one to vote YES on?

Thank you!

Proposal N means NOTHING for Detroit ghetto hoods. Just using federal dollars to tear down only 8K homes and not finishing the rest of abandon buildings. Detroit has over 100,000 abandon buildings and all of them are very dangerous. People living in their ghetto hoods are sick and tired looking at abandon building next door, across the street and block after block. Detroit city government need to mark, cover up every last abandon building. If that building is not as dangerous save it, find a buyer and that buyer will fix that building and get it up to code. If the abandon building is too dangerous tear it down. But requires more monies to demolition and dirt fill up. Also when Detroit City Gov't receives that money for demolition of 8K buildings, they better NOT squander with that money. There must be oversight to inform our U.S. Federal Gov't what selective Detroit dangerous building is on the demo list.

I say Detroiters Proposal N is NONSENSE! Vote NO NO NO!!!

Let's find a better way to save Detroit ghetto hoods.


Take a look at totally ruined and long gone Detroit ghetto hood. It looks like the SOUTH BRONX!!! of the late 1970s to the 1980s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJKz8ytO6vg

Take a look at the guy that is restoring Detroit homes one house at a time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX_1HjU93uY&t=48s


See the difference folks. SAVE DETROIT NOW!!!