Is Downtown at Risk of Going Backwards?

**iheartthed** · September-24-20, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by intelligentBeing

I am not being "deliberately obtuse" and I don't believe it is "nonsense". The ad depicts some type of parade, which yes metro detroiters come in for. If anything it could have been a message of unity between city and suburb, but no always have to look at everything through a racial lens. It is ok to be white in detroit and it is ok to have white people in ads about detroit. At the end of the day we are detroiters, metro detroiters, michiganders and americans.

My words seem to have been taken as hostility [["deliberately obtuse" and "nonsense") but I am only giving my perspective. I am sure we all want what is best for Detroit.

Whether or not you're being malicious, you are being obtuse. If it had shown all East Asian people you would have absolutely raised an eyebrow and recognized that something was weird about the photo. You should also be raising an eyebrow about a photo of "Detroit" where black people are not represented.

**intelligentBeing** · September-24-20, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Whether or not you're being malicious, you are being obtuse. If it had shown all East Asian people you would have absolutely raised an eyebrow and recognized that something was weird about the photo. You should also be raising an eyebrow about a photo of "Detroit" where black people are not represented.

You're right I would raise an eyebrow and that's it. Would be great if more Asians wanted to come to Detroit. Do you get my point? Why is it perceived negatively? Could the ad be more racially diverse? yea. Do I think it required public outrage? no. Again, I operate under the idea of city's, including Detroit, are for everyone, no one group can/should claim "required" representation in advertisements.

Your continuous attempts to demean my perspective through words like "malicious" and "obtuse" are annoying and not appreciated. If you don't agree just state so.

**Zacha341** · September-24-20, 08:31 PM

Ahh-yes. This came up a few years back here on this site. This ad campaign would never work now. No way. They'd be over-doing it at the other extreme.

Bottom line: for this an all white presentation is no better than an all black.

Surviving, and dare I say smart agencies spend great deal of time and money mulling over and deciding imagery - be it stock or derived from actual events.

They could have done better to have incorporated a mixture of race.

**intelligentBeing** · September-24-20, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Ahh-yes. This came up a few years back here on this site. This ad campaign would never work now. No way. They'd be over-doing it at the other extreme.

Bottom line: for this an all white presentation is no better than an all black.

Surviving, and dare I say smart agencies spend great deal of time and money mulling over and deciding imagery - be it stock or derived from actual events.

They could have done better to have incorporated a mixture of race.

Totally agree. Pretty incompetent of the agency to not foresee the issue.

**iheartthed** · September-25-20, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by intelligentBeing

You're right I would raise an eyebrow and that's it. Would be great if more Asians wanted to come to Detroit. Do you get my point? Why is it perceived negatively? Could the ad be more racially diverse? yea. Do I think it required public outrage? no. Again, I operate under the idea of city's, including Detroit, are for everyone, no one group can/should claim "required" representation in advertisements.

Your continuous attempts to demean my perspective through words like "malicious" and "obtuse" are annoying and not appreciated. If you don't agree just state so.

In this same thread you complained about homeless people questioning why you, a white guy, are there in Detroit. Then you defend an ad that erases black people from Detroit. You sound pretty clueless about what you got yourself into, so I think the homeless people were on to something.

If you want to be in a pace where living in an all white bubble isn't weird, or where the erasure of black people in an ad doesn't get criticized, you are in the wrong city.

**intelligentBeing** · September-26-20, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

In this same thread you complained about homeless people questioning why you, a white guy, are there in Detroit. Then you defend an ad that erases black people from Detroit. You sound pretty clueless about what you got yourself into, so I think the homeless people were on to something.

If you want to be in a pace where living in an all white bubble isn't weird, or where the erasure of black people in an ad doesn't get criticized, you are in the wrong city.

You are a horrendous conversationalist and are making assumptions and accusations left and right about me. You should learn to not take such a negative stance on people. I love the city and don't need your approval of being "in the right city".

You take my experience as a "complaint". I was only sharing something I went through, which despite it, I support the city. Again, clearly you disagree with something I said, which is fine, no need to attack me as a person.

Notice how you say I "defend an ad that erases black people", wow. Completely misrepresenting my words and a nasty attempt at making me seem like a bad person. Then to suggest I want to "live in a white bubble"... why the hate? You don't even know me but act like you can criticize everything about me based off of a couple posts on a thread.

**iheartthed** · September-26-20, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by intelligentBeing

You are a horrendous conversationalist and are making assumptions and accusations left and right about me. You should learn to not take such a negative stance on people. I love the city and don't need your approval of being "in the right city".

You take my experience as a "complaint". I was only sharing something I went through, which despite it, I support the city. Again, clearly you disagree with something I said, which is fine, no need to attack me as a person.

Notice how you say I "defend an ad that erases black people", wow. Completely misrepresenting my words and a nasty attempt at making me seem like a bad person. Then to suggest I want to "live in a white bubble"... why the hate? You don't even know me but act like you can criticize everything about me based off of a couple posts on a thread.

You're interpreting these as hate words. They are not, and it is really weird that you feel that way. It is objective fact that there were no black people in the ad. It is objective fact that Detroit is a mostly black city. It is also objective fact that Metro Detroit has a large black minority.

If you had the names of every resident of Metro Detroit in a bowl and you picked out 20, you would probably pick out the names of 5 black people. That is quite literally the [[Metro) Detroit that exists, and to portray it without black people is to erase them. If you don't understand why that is an issue, or you are not at least open to being educated about it... Again, maybe Detroit isn't the city for you.

There are plenty of places in Metro Detroit for a white person to live and be ignorant of racial politics and the historical injustices of racism. The city of Detroit is not one of those places.

**Seven&wyo** · September-26-20, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

You're interpreting these as hate words. They are not, and it is really weird that you feel that way. It is objective fact that there were no black people in the ad. It is objective fact that Detroit is a mostly black city. It is also objective fact that Metro Detroit has a large black minority.

If you had the names of every resident of Metro Detroit in a bowl and you picked out 20, you would probably pick out the names of 5 black people. That is quite literally the [[Metro) Detroit that exists, and to portray it without black people is to erase them. If you don't understand why that is an issue, or you are not at least open to being educated about it... Again, maybe Detroit isn't the city for you.

There are plenty of places in Metro Detroit for a white person to live and be ignorant of racial politics and the historical injustices of racism. The city of Detroit is not one of those places.

I have an excellent solution. Given how those racial injustices weren't people's fault today we don't care and move on. If anyone is uneasy about being around another group of people based on their race and ,instead of looking inward and figuring out why, they just avoid them then oh fucking well. Or atleast that's what I do I'm sick of this racial hyperbolic shit. From both sides

**iheartthed** · September-26-20, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Seven&wyo

I have an excellent solution. Given how those racial injustices weren't people's fault today we don't care and move on. If anyone is uneasy about being around another group of people based on their race and ,instead of looking inward and figuring out why, they just avoid them then oh fucking well. Or atleast that's what I do I'm sick of this racial hyperbolic shit. From both sides

Again, if you want to live in a city where racial inequality is out of mind, Detroit is not that place. Just like if you want to live in a city that has a subway system, Detroit is not that place. This is just reality.

**Seven&wyo** · September-26-20, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Again, if you want to live in a city where racial inequality is out of mind, Detroit is not that place. Just like if you want to live in a city that has a subway system, Detroit is not that place. This is just reality.

Really? Cause treating everyone as an equal and not just looking at their skin color in Detroit has been working out great for me. Just cause a few assholes some where during some time didn't treat X group of people equally and those same assholes had, maybe, the same skin tone as I do means nothing to me and there's no objective reason to treat anyone better or worse for that especially when those same situations don't even exist today. Don't tell me how to "live in a reality" when it's entirely your subjective view point.

**Satiricalivory** · September-26-20, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Again, if you want to live in a city where racial inequality is out of mind, Detroit is not that place.

Where is this mythical place in the United States where racial inequality is out of mind? I'd love to know.

**DetBill** · September-26-20, 09:16 PM

In focusing on the thread question, did two big walks all around downtown today, one at 2:00 in the afternoon...good amount of people, of all types , many masked, all over. Woodward and Capital Park was very crowded.....second walk at 9::00 tonight, very crowded all over, lots of masks, restaurants and bars outdoors have very healthy crowds..campus martius, woodward , maybe 30 peaceful protestors marching, getting applause...no bad behavior...capital park very busy..greektown is closed off to cars, strict police entry/ exit control, lots of people, of all types , at all places having a good time...Came back to my place from 17th floor Lafayette Park view., traffic coming from lafayette exit backed up substantially. Fireworks are coming from Comerica Park [[ its 10:16pm) ,,interesting...Downtown is very much alive with all types and ages...looking good Detroit.

**iheartthed** · September-27-20, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Where is this mythical place in the United States where racial inequality is out of mind? I'd love to know.

There are dozens of communities in Metro Detroit that are mostly white where you will hear very little mention of racial issues.

**motorcity** · September-27-20, 12:11 PM

Yahoo News
Detroit facing $410 million budget deficit

https://news.yahoo.com/detroit-facin...221351038.html

**bust** · September-27-20, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There are dozens of communities in Metro Detroit that are mostly white where you will hear very little mention of racial issues.

Sorry to doubt you, but where? When I compare the energy wasted on "racial issues" in Metro Detroit with everywhere else I've lived I've never encountered anywhere else where the topic has caused such harm. I'm willing to believe they exist, but nowhere else I've lived.

**Danny** · September-28-20, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by motorcity

Yahoo News
Detroit facing $410 million budget deficit

https://news.yahoo.com/detroit-facin...221351038.html

Blame COVID-19 for that shortfall. Detroit City Government don't need to pay anything it's creditors during the pandemic. Just forgive the debt and move on.

**iheartthed** · September-28-20, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by bust

Sorry to doubt you, but where? When I compare the energy wasted on "racial issues" in Metro Detroit with everywhere else I've lived I've never encountered anywhere else where the topic has caused such harm. I'm willing to believe they exist, but nowhere else I've lived.

Pick any random suburb north of I-696, or west of I-275. There are plenty of places that an upper middle class white guy can live in Metro Detroit and not constantly have it thrown in his face that he's white, and the people around him are not. This is not to say that Metro Detroit hasn't let racial politics get in its own way, which I 100% agree is true.

Random homeless Detroiters are not the reason why racial politics are so divisive in the metro area, so expecting those people to act as the perfect race ambassador is just going to be a lot of disappointment. If you are an upper middle class white person that chooses to live in Detroit, you have to come with the expectation that your race might be discussed and it might be awkward. If you're okay with that, enjoy your time there. If you aren't, Detroit might not be the place to be.

**ABetterDetroit** · September-28-20, 01:14 PM

Rising violent gun crimes are a serious threat to Detroits economic prosperity moving forward. This issue needs viable solutions that work.
Lives are at stake.

More funding for community policing and stiffer sentences for possession of illegal guns with a campaign advertising the harsher penalties would be a start instead of hoping nobody notices.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...op/3536062001/

**Satiricalivory** · September-28-20, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Pick any random suburb north of I-696, or west of I-275. There are plenty of places that an upper middle class white guy can live in Metro Detroit and not constantly have it thrown in his face that he's white.

What are you talking about?? Do you even live in Michigan??? White people living in Detroit don't have their whiteness "constantly thrown in their face". Not any more than any major city. All Detroit suburbs are full of white people obsessed with race, it's certainly not out of mind and those issues still exist there.

**motorcity** · September-28-20, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Rising violent gun crimes are a serious threat to Detroits economic prosperity moving forward. This issue needs viable solutions that work.
Lives are at stake.

More funding for community policing and stiffer sentences for possession of illegal guns with a campaign advertising the harsher penalties would be a start instead of hoping nobody notices.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...op/3536062001/

No. 1 most dangerous city in America sure ain't moving us forward. We have to control this lawlessness.

**motorcity** · September-30-20, 09:55 AM

Detroit Medical Center scratching plan to open a Sports Medicine Institute in the Ilitch family's District Detroit area in a $70-million building under construction on Woodward, creating a two-floor vacancy

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...litch-building

**DeLemur** · September-30-20, 12:44 PM

Would be the perfect time to run a millage for more community policing officers. Money that goes directly to officers working set neighborhoods for a set amount of years. Instead we have a silly millage to tear down a few more homes. Crime is the larger issue if you want the neighborhood investments to continue. .....we're more like top 5, not number 1 crime city.

Originally Posted by motorcity

No. 1 most dangerous city in America sure ain't moving us forward. We have to control this lawlessness.

**Satiricalivory** · September-30-20, 04:23 PM

LOL bullshit, not when Detroit is the only major US city that didn't riot.

**Dmberko11** · September-30-20, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

LOL bullshit, not when Detroit is the only major US city that didn't riot.

That's honestly impressive. I'm being serious. Not sarcastic at all. Even Californian Austin where I live has seen protest after protest this year and a few deaths as a result. Good on Detroit!
Detroit no longer is the most dangerous city, the motorcity troll needs to get with the times. Chief Crag and Duggan have done a commendable job making Detroit safer over the years. Still have more progress to be made but I'm proud of Detroit for taking steps in the right direction.

**Sehv313** · September-30-20, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

More funding for community policing and stiffer sentences for possession of illegal guns with a campaign advertising the harsher penalties would be a start instead of hoping nobody notices.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...op/3536062001/

How about more inner-city jobs would solve that issue. More police and harsher penalties won't change anything, half of these kids are killing over money, drugs, and retaliation. More policing would just mean everyday citizens get harassed and a larger growing distrust of local law enforcement.