African American police in Detroit

**iheartthed** · July-06-20, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

There are many professions out there that cause death or irreparable damage to another human being. Some out there want to do harm. Mistakes by doctors, teachers, or priests, are just a few.

If a person dies because of gross negligence of a doctor, teacher, etc.: 1 - that doctor, teacher, priest could face criminal charges, and 2 - they could also be liable for civil law suits.

Originally Posted by cla1945

One thing I have to say. 79 black Americans were shot in Chicago, 12 In Atlanta, 44 shot in NYC, a number of people shot in Philadelphia, 8 dead, and all over the US just this past week end and I’ve seen no outrage. I see no one demanding justice for these children, babies that are now gone. Yet, a white officer kills a black person and all hell breaks loose. Someone needs to check the stats on how many blacks versus whites are killed by police...I think you will all be surprised. I am in no way justifying a purposeful, premeditated murdered by an officer, but a 20 second video on YouTube or on a newscast does not tell the full story in many cases.

Sad, but irrelevant to the discussion of police officers being shielded from liability when they kill unarmed citizens.

**Towne Cluber** · July-06-20, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Law enforcement also tends to be the career field of last resort for the people in our society who aren't all that bright [[they did poorly in school and don't really have the the aptitude to take on a skilled trade or attend college.[/s]

About one third [[30.2 percent) of police officers in the United States have a four-year college degree. A little more than half [[51.8 percent) have a two-year degree, while 5.4 percent have a graduate degree.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-06-20, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

All well and good except when they DO comply and are SHOT anyways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Charles_Kinsey

Or how about Botham Jean, murdered in his OWN apartment by a cop who "mistook" his apartment for hers? Do tell, what did he do to justify his death?

Or Breonna Taylor, murdered in her own apartment in the middle of the night by plain-clothes cops executing a no-knock warrant looking for a man who was already in police custody, what did she do wrong? I'd like to hear it.

Or Philando Castile, murdered by a cop during a traffic stop because he was reaching for his driver's license and registration which the cop TOLD him to provide?

Or Ahmaud Arbery, an unarmed black jogger murdered by three white vigilantes because he "fit a description." What did he do wrong except not submit to the fake authority of three white goobers with guns?

Is that enough examples or do you need more? Plenty of dead black bodies who did nothing wrong and in no way disobeyed the police, but are dead nonetheless.

Truth spoken here.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-06-20, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

About one third [[30.2 percent) of police officers in the United States have a four-year college degree. A little more than half [[51.8 percent) have a two-year degree, while 5.4 percent have a graduate degree.

This squashes that nonsense. There are plenty of officers white and black, who are educated beyond high school.

**Meddle** · July-06-20, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

So just say "no".

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way any more. A lot has changed since '84. Now, what happens in some places is a second unit has pulled up with a K-9 and has already started walking around the car. The situation becomes, 'you're not free to go, just quite yet'.

A State Trooper I know tells me they use a trick to stop cars they want to search instead of properly seeking a warrant. They find anything, no matter how small ... a license plate light out for example. Instead of simply writing the citation and being on their way, they start with the line above ... 'uhhh, just one more thing' ....

You can't just say no. They won't let you. It becomes, 'well, my Supervisor is almost here, so you can talk to them, but in the meantime, I need to check your car, you know, just for everyone's safety..... you don't mind do you?'

**Jimaz** · July-06-20, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

... The cops ... ordering bystanders not to film them with their cell phones....

This would make an interesting video:

Use one of those clandestine micro spycams to film the scene, in public, without anyone's knowledge. Someone also pretends to be filming with a cell phone. If the officer orders the cell phone filming stopped, politely say "Yes Sir!" and put the cell phone away, allowing him to believe he was off camera — but leave the spycam on. That way the officer's candid behavior [[while he believes he's not being filmed) would be captured. Maybe he'd behave properly, who knows?

Just sayin' That would make an interesting video.

**cla1945** · July-06-20, 06:39 PM

“You can't just say no. They won't let you. It becomes, 'well, my Supervisor is almost here, so you can talk to them, but in the meantime, I need to check your car, you know, just for everyone's safety..... you don't mind do you?'

if a police officer stopped me and asked for ID, I’d COMPLY. If an officer wants to look in my car, I‘d COMPLY. I would do all it took to keep a situation calm. It’s when I would go to court, in front of a judge to dispute a ticket or the stop that I’d have my day and my say. Too many out there don’t know law but think they’re lawyers.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-06-20, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way any more. A lot has changed since '84. Now, what happens in some places is a second unit has pulled up with a K-9 and has already started walking around the car. The situation becomes, 'you're not free to go, just quite yet'.

A State Trooper I know tells me they use a trick to stop cars they want to search instead of properly seeking a warrant. They find anything, no matter how small ... a license plate light out for example. Instead of simply writing the citation and being on their way, they start with the line above ... 'uhhh, just one more thing' ....

You can't just say no. They won't let you. It becomes, 'well, my Supervisor is almost here, so you can talk to them, but in the meantime, I need to check your car, you know, just for everyone's safety..... you don't mind do you?'

Nail on the head here. You must speak from experience?

**401don** · July-06-20, 06:55 PM

My 1st experience with racial profiling was back in 1981. I just moved to "the big city", a mostly lilly white suburb of Toronto. My co-worker, who is Jamaican, was driving me home from work after an all day snowstorm. We were pulled over and the cop asked for his license and insurance. As he reached for it he asked the officer if he had a tail light out. The officer told him to shut up and hand over his license. He came back to the vehicle and handed my friend a ticket for having his license plate not visible due to the snow. I told my friend what a rotten cop that was and my friend just laughed and told me not to be so naive.

**ABetterDetroit** · July-06-20, 07:54 PM

There is irony when the far right and the far left share the exact same goal.
‘Defund the police!’ and ‘We don’t need government!’ are identical.

The middle is poorly represented yet again.

Higher educated, better trained police officers spending more hours community policing would be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately those solutions require more money and the extremes are going to play into each other’s hands while the rest of us stare at the same bad cards.

**313WX** · July-06-20, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

About one third [[30.2 percent) of police officers in the United States have a four-year college degree. A little more than half [[51.8 percent) have a two-year degree, while 5.4 percent have a graduate degree.

First of all, a study was conducted a few years ago that reveals less than 1% of police departments actually require a degree as a prerequisite to join the force. So I'm not sure how your post is relevant to the point I was making.

Source:

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/feature...aw-enforcement

Second, there was a case 20 years ago where the courts ruled that it's perfectly legal for police departments to discriminate against prospective officers who are too smart because those who scored too high could get "too bored with police work," which only further supports the notion that many of the officers they hire aren't necessarily rocket scientists.

Me personally, I'd rather have officers who are highly intelligent as they're likely to put more thought into things they decide to do and not act on their emotions.

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...ory%3fid=95836

**Towne Cluber** · July-06-20, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Black cops are indoctrinated into the same toxic, dysfunctional culture of policing as white cops are. The same mindset of "us versus them" and "the people you are paid to protect and serve are your enemy" and "if you wear a badge, you can do no wrong, you are above the law.

Perhaps, but if you’re going to acknowledge one, you must also acknowledge a toxic, dysfunctional culture among a significant portion of the population in Detroit [[and elsewhere)...as well as its “us versus them” and “you can do no wrong” mindset.

**Towne Cluber** · July-06-20, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

First of all, a study was conducted a few years ago that reveals less than 1% of police departments actually require a degree as a prerequisite to join the force. So I'm not sure how your post is relevant to the point I was making.

Source:

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/feature...aw-enforcement

Second, there was a case 20 years ago where the courts ruled that it's perfectly legal for police departments to discriminate against prospective officers who are too smart because those who scored too high could get "too bored with police work," which only further supports the notion that many of the officers they hire aren't necessarily rocket scientists.

Me personally, I'd rather have officers who are highly intelligent as they're likely to put more thought into things they decide to do and not act on their emotions.

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...ory%3fid=95836

I’m not going to play games with you but I will point out that you cut the very next sentence of the statement from your own link.

“However, in the present study, almost half of the respondents earned a college degree and took college-level classes while employed as an officer. In a nationally representative survey of those currently employed in the general workforce, 39 percent indicated that they had taken career or job-related courses in the previous 12 months, and 6 percent identified participating in college and university degree programs, postdegree certificate programs, or vocational certificate programs.8 The study maintained that police officers have more formal education and take more college classes than the nation as a whole, although not required to do so for hiring purposes.“

**Meddle** · July-06-20, 09:48 PM

May 11, 2017 at 6:22 PM CDT - Updated August 12 at 9:30 AM

KENTUCKY [[KFVS) - Kentucky State Police announced new hiring guidelines for state troopers.

KSP will now be able to accept more applications because anyone with a high school diploma or GHD and with three years of work experience, now qualifies to apply.

Prior to the new guidelines, applicants were required to have 60 hours of college credit, two years of active duty military experience, or two years of certified police officer experience.

https://www.kfvs12.com/story/3540771...ng-guidelines/

Nov 15, 2016

By Dave Collins and Lisa Maria Pane
Associated Press

HARTFORD, Conn. — Police departments are relaxing age-old standards for accepting recruits, from lowering educational requirements to forgiving some prior drug use, to try to attract more people to their ranks.

The changes are designed to deal with decreased interest in a job that offers low pay, rigorous physical demands and the possibility of getting killed on duty all while under intense public scrutiny. There's also the question of how to encourage more minorities to become police officers.

https://www.policeone.com/police-job...Eoz8NBnvmy1G1/

Jun 19, 2019
Facing a concerning decline in officer recruitment and retention rates, the Portland Police Bureau [[PPB) has chosen to roll back some of its new hire requirements.

Starting July 1, PPB will no longer demand incoming officers have a degree from a two-year college or university. Instead, applicants will only need a high school diploma or GED to become a certified officer—the minimum state standard for law enforcement officials.

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ruitment-rates

**aj3647** · July-07-20, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Sad, but irrelevant to the discussion of police officers being shielded from liability when they kill unarmed citizens.

It's the go-to tactic of white racists: deflect from police brutality by trying to steer the argument to black-on-black violence, as if that somehow excuses police misconduct and criminality.

It's nothing more than Whataboutism. "Hey, stop talking about this thing I don't want discussed and talk about this completely unrelated thing instead!"

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Perhaps, but if you’re going to acknowledge one, you must also acknowledge a toxic, dysfunctional culture among a significant portion of the population in Detroit [[and elsewhere)...as well as its “us versus them” and “you can do no wrong” mindset.

If your choice is to hold police officers to the same moral standards of conduct as you do common street criminals, then that really says it all and nothing I say will get through to you.

I would have hoped that you would hold police to a HIGHER standard than you do the rest of the population given the role they chose to play in it and the extreme power and authority they wield, but I guess not.

**Zacha341** · July-07-20, 08:35 AM

^^^I'm ok with this so long as so-called groups [[BLM included) who claim to help/ advance black people are 'checking in' with us to KNOW what our actual priorities are: city to city, state to state. I say this because we have some extreme factions coming up fast, making demands [[on our behalf, in our name) that all black people are not in lock-step with.

Additionally, I'll not set aside or negate the reality of senseless crime going on in our communities IN ADDITION to police misconduct. It need not be an either or construct - as poli-tricks go forth to attempt to keep us bound. We need to address all of these factors impacting our communities.

**Towne Cluber** · July-07-20, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

If your choice is to hold police officers to the same moral standards of conduct as you do common street criminals, then that really says it all and nothing I say will get through to you.

I would have hoped that you would hold police to a HIGHER standard than you do the rest of the population given the role they chose to play in it and the extreme power and authority they wield, but I guess not.
[/FONT]

Reality requires real world situations to be looked at in totality. It isn’t an academic exercise, philosophical argument, nor political debate that can be viewed in a vacuum.

**aj3647** · July-07-20, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

So just say "no". As a Detroit Police Officer for 29 years, I'm really getting pissed at some of the left-wing swipes at proper law and order recently. But DetroitYes is certainly going in that direction.

Uh oh, Ray's getting pissed! Here's a question Ray, when you asked to search someone's car without a warrant, did you inform of them of their RIGHT to say "no", or were you just banking on the ignorance of the common man to not be aware of their own rights so you could go on a fishing expedition? No need to answer, I already know what the answer is.

You will never in a million years admit that you were part of the problem, but you were and are. If only the cops could just step on all the necks they wanted without people filming it like back in the good ol' days you pine for, when skulls were cracked at your own discretion and nobody said "boo" about it.

**Meddle** · July-07-20, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

You will never in a million years admit that you were part of the problem, but you were and are.

We don't know anything about his specific performance while on the job. I won't blindly lump him in with some of the others I knew during that era.

**aj3647** · July-07-20, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

We don't know anything about his specific performance while on the job. I won't blindly lump him in with some of the others I knew during that era.

Yes I'm sure he was blind as to how the DPD operated in the 60's and 70's. Never saw a thing, never heard a thing. Sorry, not buying it. Given his blanket defense of the police today and his attacks on anyone who dares criticize them, I can only imagine what was deemed OK by him back in the "good ol' days."

If that's not the case, then let him prove me wrong by being a vocal advocate against police brutality and misconduct when it obviously occurs while still supporting the "good" police. Perhaps since he served during that era, he can start by denouncing the racist, violent, criminal actions of the S.T.R.E.S.S. unit. Let's see if he does...

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-07-20, 02:02 PM

Man, it's getting "hot" in here, and I don't mean the weather.

**Ray1936** · July-07-20, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

If that's not the case, then let him prove me wrong by being a vocal advocate against police brutality and misconduct when it obviously occurs while still supporting the "good" police.

Naw, I'm not interested in a pissing match with anyone. I can only say that I am totally at peace with myself for my work of 29 years in the DPD.

**Zacha341** · July-07-20, 02:45 PM

My dad and one of my uncles served as reserved police officers. That was in the 70 - 80's. It was a rough job then, as they were constantly under the strain of a situation getting out of hand [[which was usually the case as reserves are then called for). I don't debate that there are good LEO's out there. I've known/ knew them thru my family and a few personal encounters.

I do not believe in full-out disbanding of the police - but the system must be changed. From the top down, as there are crazed types using the badge as their personal permit to go left in their apprehensions etc. Knowing nothing will happen, as the matter is distorted and quickly swept under the rug. My dad told me of a few such types-very well known for their 'rep'.