The Protest in Detroit

[Seven&wyo]

Correction, it won't get people like YOU on their side, but then again you and people like you were never going to be on their side regardless of what verbiage they used.

Anyways, the term "criminalization of homelessness" refers not just to bans on public camping or sleeping on the streets, but to a wide variety of policies, laws, and selective enforcement that specifically targets the homeless. This includes but is not exclusive to:
-Laws banning panhandling [[blanket panhandling bans were later ruled unconstitutional by the courts as infringing on the First Amendment)
-Laws banning giving money or food to homeless people
-Aggressive and targeted enforcement of "loitering" laws, used specifically to harass the homeless
-Ticketing people for sleeping in their cars

And the list goes on. I can cite you examples of cities across America that have done the things I have listed above. When people refer to "criminalization of homelessness", they aren't just referring to one single policy, they are referring to many polices and indeed an entire mindset that exists among the local government/police that uses the law [[and the selective enforcement of laws) to make homeless people's lives as difficult as possible so that they'll give up and go somewhere else.

Ok, I can admit when I'm wrong. I agree with all those policies.

[Meddle]

Very true. But remember union contracts are negotiated so its up to James Craig and Mike Duggan to bargain any excessive protection of out of control cops, out of the contract.

Discipline and misconduct issues in public safety need to be removed from contract talks by NLRB policy and/or Federal law. The Unions should have no role there at all.

[DeLemur]

Yes, but 70% of Police don't even live in the city so they're pretty weak voting wise locally. How entrenched they are in a relationship [[$ and friends) to city leaders may be different. Not really sure why Duggan likes Craig so much, maybe because they're both hard asses. So yeah DPD is close to Duggan.

With the Detroit Justice Center and a competitive prosecutor's primary this year.....I think they're going to have to budge. The public is no longer into let them do whatever they want policing.

The police officer's union, along with the firefighter's and teacher's unions, are usually the most powerful voting block in any given city. Mayors and city councils have tried to enact these reforms before and, having failed, been voted out of office. This is an issue with municipal unions. You get to vote for your boss. It usually takes federal intervention to get any reform at all, but even then the feds are limited as to what they can do by the union contracts. Besides which, the larger union organizations, primarily the AFL/CIO, have intimated that the police unions still have their full backing. As I said - good luck with the reforms.

[DeLemur]

Agreed. On an external sense, when dealing with the public- yes.
If its an internal matter - IE: they screwed up a report or didn't reach their quota or let the cop car run out of gas, then its fine. NLRB though probably doesn't make that distinction so you're probably right.

Discipline and misconduct issues in public safety need to be removed from contract talks by NLRB policy and/or Federal law. The Unions should have no role there at all.

[gnome]

The No-Snitch Blue Wall gives cover to bad cops and allows weak-willed cops to hide behind silence.

So, there is a hard-ass who likes to kick ass and with him is less experienced cop. When push comes to whacking there is a whole lot that is not going to be seen, viewed or witnessed by the less experienced officer.

The Blue Wall justifies bad policing policies and techniques.

It intimidates cops who know of bad-apples to keep quiet.

It reinforces the notion that they are separate from society at large, a Brotherhood, a Fraternal Order. That is true because it has to be true; to wit, in half a heartbeat everything will turn to shit and you have to know that your brother has your 6.

The question is how can that truth be made untrue?

How can the need for fraternity and loyalty be made unnecessary or incidental?

Bad apples exist because good apples need them.

[CassTechGrad]

All of the things said about the “Blue Wall” protecting their own can also be said of the “Chalk Wall”, the teachers union. Competency and discipline are just as important in the classroom, bad teachers can ruin a child for life. The teacher’s union makes it impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

[JBMcB]

Discipline and misconduct issues in public safety need to be removed from contract talks by NLRB policy and/or Federal law. The Unions should have no role there at all.

I was incorrect, the NLRB does not regulate governmental union contracts, only private. There is railway act legislation that covers some governmental contracts [[seriously, it's weird.) But, mainly, the states legislate local police union rules. Still, the AFL/CIO is probably going to come down hard on any legislature attempting reform, as they have stated that police misconduct is not an organized labor issue. As Michigan's state legislature is republican controlled, they probably wouldn't care much, though their anti-union and pro-police stances might clash. However, Gov. Whitmer might capitulate in exchange for continued union support.

[Meddle]

Still, the AFL/CIO is probably going to come down hard on any legislature attempting reform, as they have stated that police misconduct is not an organized labor issue.

Further supporting they should have no involvement in those matters. It's a criminal/legal issue.

[JBMcB]

Further supporting they should have no involvement in those matters. It's a criminal/legal issue.

I'm not sure you quite understand their logic. They are claiming that police misconduct is not affected by the protections within union contracts. That is, the fact that it is very difficult, or sometimes impossible, to fire a police officer involved with serious misconduct has nothing to do with the current issue of police brutality. The unions are arguing that it's a training and pay issue - if you train the officers better and pay them more then the misconduct will go away. I'm sure that more training would help, but I don't see why, if an officer clearly is a problem, why it shouldn't be relatively simple to fire them and ensure somehow that they cannot be a police officer anywhere else.

[aj3647]

Take away qualified immunity and the police will think twice before they violate a citizen's rights. It's no skin off their back if the Taxpayer has to pay out a seven figure settlement on their behalf to someone they hurt or the family of someone they killed.

[ABetterDetroit]

Take away qualified immunity and the police will think twice before they violate a citizen's rights. It's no skin off their back if the Taxpayer has to pay out a seven figure settlement on their behalf to someone they hurt or the family of someone they killed.

There is no skin off of the unions back either for protecting the job of a violent racist with a history that a police department wants gone. Hold the union liable as well and we will begin to tear down that blue wall.

Nothing would have all of the officers vested in the behavior of the department as a whole than the money in all of their own pockets. Known bad apples would be history quickly.

[Meddle]

A union local that gets a fired officer reinstated could become financially liable for future bad acts if that officer re-offends.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The No-Snitch Blue Wall gives cover to bad cops and allows weak-willed cops to hide behind silence.

So, there is a hard-ass who likes to kick ass and with him is less experienced cop. When push comes to whacking there is a whole lot that is not going to be seen, viewed or witnessed by the less experienced officer.

The Blue Wall justifies bad policing policies and techniques.

It intimidates cops who know of bad-apples to keep quiet.

It reinforces the notion that they are separate from society at large, a Brotherhood, a Fraternal Order. That is true because it has to be true; to wit, in half a heartbeat everything will turn to shit and you have to know that your brother has your 6.

The question is how can that truth be made untrue?

How can the need for fraternity and loyalty be made unnecessary or incidental?

Bad apples exist because good apples need them.

Kinda reminds me of "Training Day"

[Lowell]

DPD, Black Detroiters have long, troubled history

Here is an excellent historical article by veteran reporter Bill McGraw in today's Free Press on the history of the Detroit Police Department and Racism.

https://freep-mi.newsmemory.com?publ...02058d_13436ca

[aj3647]

DPD suspends one officer pending investigation after three photo-journalists [[including one for MLive) reported having been deliberately targeted and shot with rubber bullets despite having identified themselves as members of the Press and despite the fact that they were simply returning to their vehicles after the protests had largely ended.

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...g-protest.html

Sad to see the DPD taking the same "Circle the Wagons" approach to misconduct.

“While we are pleased that the Detroit Police Department is moving this investigation forward, I am concerned by the lack transparency and how long this is taking,” said John Hiner, vice president of content for MLive Media Group. “This was a serious attack on our employee, and on the free press. I want to see the evidence come forward, and those responsible to be held accountable.”

[Richard]

Video and cameras are every where.

If officers tell everybody to clear the streets and get on the sidewalk,why should the media be exempt?

If the protesters are told to take 3 steps back the media should set an example,the protesters have the same rights as media and if they see media ignoring requests then they have the same privilege.

The evidence of blatant disregard for officers trying to control the crowd by the media is out there for Mr Hiner VP of MLive Media group.

Its no different when they embedded with troops,a media pass is not a bullet proof shield,you jump into the fire you run the risk of getting burned.

[Meddle]

The media has always been granted leeway in gathering news.

It's how it's done.

[Richard]

^ in case you have not noticed we are in a time of upending how it’s done.

Mob rules,protesters have to move on so does the media.

They are not really the media anymore,just the ministry of propaganda,without the ministry.

Anybody with a cellphone is now a instant reporter,the media as we knew it has gone the way of block ice home delivery,they create the news instead of reporting it,so they lost their credentials when they lost thier credibility.

[Gistok]

^ in case you have not noticed we are in a time of upending how it’s done.

Mob rules,protesters have to move on so does the media.

They are not really the media anymore,just the ministry of propaganda,without the ministry.

Anybody with a cellphone is now a instant reporter,the media as we knew it has gone the way of block ice home delivery,they create the news instead of reporting it,so they lost their credentials when they lost thier credibility.

That would be mainly Fox News....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA

[enio]

^ in case you have not noticed we are in a time of upending how it’s done.

Mob rules,protesters have to move on so does the media.

They are not really the media anymore,just the ministry of propaganda,without the ministry.

Anybody with a cellphone is now a instant reporter,the media as we knew it has gone the way of block ice home delivery,they create the news instead of reporting it,so they lost their credentials when they lost thier credibility.

"Fox says Fox News isn't obligated to be factual.
Tucker Carlson doesn't have an obligation to investigate the truth of statements before making them on his show, and his audience doesn't expect him to report facts, a lawyer for Fox News told a New York federal judge on Wednesday. "

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...r-suit-1298999

Fox News also posted altered photos of the protest in Seattle.

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/15/une...ts-in-seattle/

Ministry of Propaganda = Fox News.

[Richard]

That would be mainly Fox News....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA

A recent study of local TV stations in the US conducted by Adornato revealed that that nearly 40% of their editorial policies did not include any guidelines on how to verify information from social media, yet news managers at the TV stations admitted that at least a third of their news bulletins had reported information from social media that later was revealed to be false or inaccurate.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37846860

As you have shown it is also based on which party you choose

https://www.businessinsider.com/most...today-5-tie-13

For the report, they examined 126,000 stories tweeted by about 3 million people more than 4.5 million times.
They found that false news stories were 70 percent more likely to be retweeted than true stories were.


"False news is more novel, and people are more likely to share novel information," Aral said. Plus, people like to repeat information that seems to affirm their beliefs.
“People prefer information that confirms their preexisting attitudes, view information consistent with their preexisting beliefs as more persuasive than dissonant information [[confirmation bias), and are inclined to accept information that pleases them,” David Lazer of Northeastern University and colleagues wrote in an editorial.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...h-does-n854896
Anybody with internet access can easily search news retractions,it is not just Fox.

News is run by corporations,as shown, false stories spread faster then true stories and garner more views, which translates into more revenue.

CNN reported 22 school shootings per year,which was picked up and repeated by multiple news organizations and politicians,the problem was.

All because this air-headed, fact-challenged network wanted a provocative headline. CNN’s report mentions up front that it includes “gang violence, fights, and domestic violence” as well as “accidental discharge of a firearm” in the parameters for determine a “school shooting.” But in context of the breaking news about a school shooting, where an individual murdered students, CNN’s headline implies that there have been 22 similar incidents this year — and that is not true.

https://www.conservativereview.com/n...is-year-wrong/


According to the Monmouth findings, 61 percent of Democrats believe outlets spread misinformation, up from 43 percent from last year. Belief in the spread of "fake news" by major news outlets also rose from 2017 to now among Republicans, up from 79 to 89 percent, and independents, rising from 66 percent to 82 percent.
Americans also are increasingly wary of the motivations behind allegedly misleading coverage, with 42 percent of respondents saying they believe that major outlets disseminate misinformation to push a political agenda.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ke-news-494421

[JBMcB]

Michigan's own Justin Amash has introduced legislation to end qualified immunity. Most importantly, and somewhat rarely, it's four pages long, and only deals with qualified immunity. Imagine that, a bill not larded up with pork! Currently has 61 co-sponsors: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...5/text?r=1&s=1

[Justin SOD]

Has Underwood and Williams been part of the two week long protests or did they just show up?

A couple weeks late on this, but I was at the protest this day and this is another instance of the news creating a misleading/sensationalized story regarding the day's events. This whole thing lasted maybe 10 minutes out of a 5+ hour long protest and was far from the tone of the day. Underwood began speaking during the open mic session [[which is held at the beginning of every protest gathering) and the general consensus among those in attendance seemed to be "who is this lady?" and "what is she talking about?" Once she was done the protest continued on like normal. I guess sensationalizing that there is some type of divide in the movement or fight for power gets more clicks than reporting "another day of peaceful protests in Detroit".

I don't personally know Tristan Taylor, but he has been at the Detroit protests since day 1 and has done a great job from what I've observed. He seems to be very well respected and active in the Detroit community [[even before the recent protests began) and has been unofficially chosen as the leader of the Detroit protests by the protesters. On the other hand, I have never seen Underwood at a Detroit protest before or after her appearance this specific day. It seemed like she just showed up, yelled into the microphone, and gave the news outlets in attendance their drama they could spin as a story for the day.

[Justin SOD]

►End Project Greenlight, a public-private community partnership that uses real-time camera surveillance throughout the city, and facial recognition software to identify suspects;
[[You mean the surveillance system that's caught criminal and made areas around it safer? Not smart)

►End “consensual” sex between police officers and those under custody; [[is this a thing?)

Unfortunately Project Green Light is not as successful as it is promoted to be and there are many valid reasons to be critical/eliminate the project. Here are a few articles and excerpts from them:



1. Criticisms of Project Green Light from the business owner perspective: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ght/109524794/

From the article - “The dispatcher said, ‘It’s because you don’t have the Green Light,’ ” Kaid said. “The customer was in here destroying the store, throwing everything off the shelves. He was here for almost an hour before he left. When the police finally came, they told us the Green Light locations get priority.”

Businesses pay between $4,000 and $6,000 to join Project Green Light, a program that allows police to monitor businesses’ video surveillance feeds in real time. The cost covers installation of high-definition cameras and lighting. There also is a monthly fee of up to $150 for cloud-based video storage.

In exchange, participating companies are given Priority 1 status on police dispatches — but some business owners who don’t participate feel they’re being treated like secondary citizens.



2. From July 2019. Criticisms of Project Green Light for using facial recognition software and that it has a "high propensity to be faulty" and will lead to people [[especially black people) being falsely arrested for crimes they did not commit. https://detroit.curbed.com/2019/7/8/...ion-technology

From the article - "Numerous studies have shown that facial recognition software misidentifies black faces at a much higher rate than white faces, which could lead to false arrests"

Later on in the same article: Detroit Police Chief James Craig defended use of facial recognition technology and said that it would only be used in “extreme circumstances,” like a terrorist threat.



3. From today, June 24, 2020. Criticisms and worries about facial recognition are confirmed. Detroit man falsely arrested due to error of facial recognition technology. The crime you ask? Not an "extreme circumstance like a terrorist threat" as Chief Craig stated it would be used for in the July 2019 article listed above. Instead, it was for 5 watches being stolen from Shinola. It looks like Chief Craig and DPD have been lying to the people and city about their intentions and use of the technology as many feared. https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88267...nition-mistake



4. Lack of evidence that Project Green Light is even effective or reduces crime. https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...oit/509139002/

From the article - "Researchers including Bryce Peterson of the Urban Institute say it is nearly impossible to tie Detroit's crime reduction to specifically Green Light.

"Violent crimes have been declining in many cities across the country," said Peterson, who is advisingMilwaukee police on surveillance options. "Without rigorous evaluations that use comparison groups, it is difficult to attribute the decline in any city to a specific program or policy,”

Peterson said he looked into Project Green Light last year as a possible option for his client. While he had heard many positive reviews of the program, his team "hit a wall" when it came time to look at the data.

"I am trying to be neutral in that I’ve heard mostly good things about it, but, at the same time, I have not seen any direct evidence of its effectiveness. It’s only anecdotal information that we’ve heard from sources with a vested interest in it," Peterson said.



Lastly, believe it or not, in many states [[including Michigan) it is actually legal for police officers to have sex with someone in their custody. Completely insane, right? Here is an article about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca...ple-35-states/

"The problem here is obvious. Police officers have great authority over people they place in custody. And they can use that authority to convince a detainee to engage in "consensual" sex in exchange for release or leniency.

In 2015, the Buffalo News conducted an exhaustive national analysis of sexual encounters between cops and detainees and found 700 credible cases over a 10-year period. The News found that badge-wearing violators "pulled over drivers to fish for dates, had sex on duty with willing or reluctant partners, extorted favors by threatening arrest and committed rapes."

[Wheels]

Unfortunately Project Green Light is not as successful as it is promoted to be and there are many valid reasons to be critical/eliminate the project. Here are a few articles and excerpts from them:



1. Criticisms of Project Green Light from the business owner perspective: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ght/109524794/

From the article - “The dispatcher said, ‘It’s because you don’t have the Green Light,’ ” Kaid said. “The customer was in here destroying the store, throwing everything off the shelves. He was here for almost an hour before he left. When the police finally came, they told us the Green Light locations get priority.”

Businesses pay between $4,000 and $6,000 to join Project Green Light, a program that allows police to monitor businesses’ video surveillance feeds in real time. The cost covers installation of high-definition cameras and lighting. There also is a monthly fee of up to $150 for cloud-based video storage.

In exchange, participating companies are given Priority 1 status on police dispatches — but some business owners who don’t participate feel they’re being treated like secondary citizens.



2. From July 2019. Criticisms of Project Green Light for using facial recognition software and that it has a "high propensity to be faulty" and will lead to people [[especially black people) being falsely arrested for crimes they did not commit. https://detroit.curbed.com/2019/7/8/...ion-technology

From the article - "Numerous studies have shown that facial recognition software misidentifies black faces at a much higher rate than white faces, which could lead to false arrests"

Later on in the same article: Detroit Police Chief James Craig defended use of facial recognition technology and said that it would only be used in “extreme circumstances,” like a terrorist threat.



3. From today, June 24, 2020. Criticisms and worries about facial recognition are confirmed. Detroit man falsely arrested due to error of facial recognition technology. The crime you ask? Not an "extreme circumstance like a terrorist threat" as Chief Craig stated it would be used for in the July 2019 article listed above. Instead, it was for 5 watches being stolen from Shinola. It looks like Chief Craig and DPD have been lying to the people and city about their intentions and use of the technology as many feared. https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88267...nition-mistake



4. Lack of evidence that Project Green Light is even effective or reduces crime. https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...oit/509139002/

From the article - "Researchers including Bryce Peterson of the Urban Institute say it is nearly impossible to tie Detroit's crime reduction to specifically Green Light.

"Violent crimes have been declining in many cities across the country," said Peterson, who is advisingMilwaukee police on surveillance options. "Without rigorous evaluations that use comparison groups, it is difficult to attribute the decline in any city to a specific program or policy,”

Peterson said he looked into Project Green Light last year as a possible option for his client. While he had heard many positive reviews of the program, his team "hit a wall" when it came time to look at the data.

"I am trying to be neutral in that I’ve heard mostly good things about it, but, at the same time, I have not seen any direct evidence of its effectiveness. It’s only anecdotal information that we’ve heard from sources with a vested interest in it," Peterson said.



Lastly, believe it or not, in many states [[including Michigan) it is actually legal for police officers to have sex with someone in their custody. Completely insane, right? Here is an article about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca...ple-35-states/

"The problem here is obvious. Police officers have great authority over people they place in custody. And they can use that authority to convince a detainee to engage in "consensual" sex in exchange for release or leniency.

In 2015, the Buffalo News conducted an exhaustive national analysis of sexual encounters between cops and detainees and found 700 credible cases over a 10-year period. The News found that badge-wearing violators "pulled over drivers to fish for dates, had sex on duty with willing or reluctant partners, extorted favors by threatening arrest and committed rapes."

Way to much information. If you want to know if it works just go back about 5 years and go to any gas station in Detroit after dark. When you get your car back and you’re still alive you may appreciate the green light system!