The Protest in Detroit

[jcole]

Young won by about 7000 votes. From Nov 8 1973 NYT

[Ray1936]

If you want to nit-pick... where in my quoted text is the word "close"..go take your nap

Okay. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.......................

[Bigdd]

Mayor Young had one of the most blatant voter fraud schemes ever seen.

The city didn't have a computer to tabulate the ballots, so the Mayor graciously allowed them to use his personal one with a custom program in it.

Also,.. the ballots would be taken from the voting precincts down to Cobo Hall to be counted. But the Mayor's men would stop some of the cans in the lobby and open them, then swap out the ballots right in plain sight.

The ballot bins [[like garbage cans) had seals on the outside, and a counter on the inside hinge,.. so that each time the lid was opened, it would ad a number to the counter.

A friend of mine used to videotape city council. One year he filmed the ballot switching process. Right there in the lobby of Cobo. The mayor's men cut the seal, removed the ballots, and dumped in huge bags of completed ballots they had brought with them into the cans.

My friend got an injunction from a judge to seize the ballots and stop them from being counted. But in the middle of the night some other judge ruled that the film must have been mistaken, and released the ballots to be dumped into the counting process.

Last I knew, my friend still has the film. Typical big city stuff.

[softailrider]

Yet another protest in Detroit seems to have finished peacefully. Good, I prayed for everybody today. It's a little ironic dont you guys think? People love depicting Detroit as some kind of war zone where you're guaranteed to get shot and killed the very second you step foot in city limits.

Now nearly every major city in this union is acting like an actual war zone, destroying buildings, calling the national guard, etc. Meanwhile I don't think a single storefront in Detroit had broken windows this whole time. It looks like this city is much better than what people mythicized it to be and all these US cities really have their own problems they should focus on.

Just my two cents.

I think most of that has to do with Mayor Duggan and Chief Craig. In spite of both their foibles, they were not going to put up with looting of businesses. I think people knew if you were arrested doing that you were going to have serious legal problems.

[Justin SOD]

'Tis a puzzlement. Why does an event occurring in Minnesota of otherwise only local concern, inflame a nation and beyond? Can't be Antifa, no, it can't. But, my, how the young are sucked in.

Figured I’d chime in since it doesn’t seem like anyone that went to a protest has posted here.

I have attended several of the protests this week [[and a couple other smaller ones in recent years). When standing and walking alongside others for several consecutive hours you naturally end up meeting a lot of people at these protests…yet somehow I have never met a single person that belongs to or identifies as a member of Antifa. I have discussed this with multiple friends that also have been attending the protests in Detroit as well as friends attending the protests in big cities in California, New York, etc. – none of them have ever met someone from Antifa either. We also have no idea how one would go about joining Antifa, how you would contact someone to get info about Antifa, or anything of that nature. Kind of odd considering that we keep hearing about the supposed large numbers and role Antifa is playing in these protests.

Believe it or not the people attending these protests are just regular people, young and old of various backgrounds, that are tired of the continued racist policies/practices and an over-aggressive/militarized police force that is rarely held accountable when they commit crimes and injustice against those they have sworn to protect. George Floyd was simply the catalyst for these protests – “the straw that broke the camel’s back” if you will. This is about so much more than George Floyd and Minneapolis though, which is why this has become a global movement. Hundreds of thousands of people are coming out each day around the world [[from Canada to Iceland to France to Australia to New Zealand and on) to speak out and show solidarity.

As for the Detroit protests specifically, I have witnessed nothing but kindness from the people in attendance. At each protest, multiple people bring water bottles, masks, hand sanitizer, granola bars, and other snacks to share with fellow protesters along the miles long journey. Yesterday part of our march was up Linwood and then Clairmount through the Virginia Park neighborhood. So many families came out of their homes to watch and support - some people even watching in tears and then joining for a few blocks. This happens continuously each day throughout the duration of the protest regardless of location in the city. People are also constantly coming out of their cars and places of work to show their support as we pass by. During yesterday’s march, I even walked next to a blind man in his 70’s using his white cane to march along and chant with us. He made it about 2 miles walking with us before needing to stop. The whole experience has been quite moving to be honest.

These are the moments they do not show you on the news - the actual real protest and protesters. This includes the local news as well. Up until this week, I have never been involved in an event that ended up on the local Metro-Detroit TV news channels and to see the difference between how they portrayed the day’s events vs reality was shocking and really disappointing. The entire segment was inaccurate, sensationalized, and very misleading.

Lastly, I see a lot of generalizations and inaccuracies about who attends these protests [[particularly that it’s just unemployed college kids), so if you are curious after reading all of this: I am a white guy about to enter my late 30’s. Used to be a school teacher and now am a healthcare worker in Detroit and Hamtramck. Have lived in the city for more than 8 years now.

[Satiricalivory]

I agree media has been horrible. Detroit has been peacefully protesting for a week now and the only attention I see it getting is some bullshit Guardian article that focused on the suburbs, the 67 riots and Trump. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough. Like seriously?

[Gistok]

I agree media has been horrible. Detroit has been peacefully protesting for a week now and the only attention I see it getting is some bullshit Guardian article that focused on the suburbs, the 67 riots and Trump. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough. Like seriously?

Also that Detroit 16 year old Stefan Perez has made the national media, as being a young "accidental" leader of protesters in Detroit, and been using his bull horn to prevent violence and looting.

[DetroitSoldier]

I have attended two protest rallies. Today I took my wife and 4 year old to the Dequindre Cut rally. Beyond the organized chanting that gets the microphone attention at the front, there is always a lot of talking in the crowd. We talked about social issues and everyday matters with people from all walks of life...white and black, young and old.

The demographics of the marches have been extraordinary. I don't believe I've ever seen marches for any cause with this amount of age and race diversity. We are a white family that lives in the City of Detroit. We are accustomed to being the minority at community gatherings. But today an individual's race was secondary to their stance against racism. I haven't seen much of that in the past.

I am damn proud of the way Detroit has represented itself over the last week+. If we can continue to make sure we care about matters of equality when the media lights disappear, we can create actual change.

[ABetterDetroit]

I have attended two protest rallies. Today I took my wife and 4 year old to the Dequindre Cut rally. Beyond the organized chanting that gets the microphone attention at the front, there is always a lot of talking in the crowd. We talked about social issues and everyday matters with people from all walks of life...white and black, young and old.

The demographics of the marches have been extraordinary. I don't believe I've ever seen marches for any cause with this amount of age and race diversity. We are a white family that lives in the City of Detroit. We are accustomed to being the minority at community gatherings. But today an individual's race was secondary to their stance against racism. I haven't seen much of that in the past.

I am damn proud of the way Detroit has represented itself over the last week+. If we can continue to make sure we care about matters of equality when the media lights disappear, we can create actual change.

This is a excellent post. Thank you for the report from the cut today. I also share your hopes for the future.

[THE FURY 617]

City charter commission member/activist Joanna Underwood,who organized other protests around Metro Detroit, accusing activist Tristan Taylor o

f trying to run the agenda for every protester in the state and shutting her and others out of the meeting with city leaders.

Earlier tuesday,Taylor and his co-organizers met with Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan and Detroit police Chief James Craig.://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/06/10/detroit-protests-12th-night-of-demonstrations-takes-place-after-organizers-meet-with-local-officials/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaig n=snd&utm_content=wdiv&fbclid=IwAR0n7-Yn8j7S43cfmgVQA5zZdSfSf3JCggwMS_oV3F8yj2P15t2QO-eT4Gk

[DeLemur]

Interestingly enough, you had Roman Gribbs beating black candidate Richard Austin by 7,000 votes as well in 1969.

Two pivotal elections decided by only 7,000 votes. A lot of it swirling around policing in Detroit and black Detroiters.

Young won by about 7000 votes. From Nov 8 1973 NYT

[DeLemur]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the first two pages of this thread but the Federal Justice Department had a consent agreement and monitored the Detroit Police Department from 2003 to 2016 for excessive civilian shootings. Luckily the mess of excessive force Policing in the United States was already handled in Detroit.

[Zacha341]

It looks like Taylor and Underwood reconciled 'enough' to then protest together once she publicly 'checked' him. I will post the video as shown on Fox2Detroit...

City charter commission member/activist Joanna Underwood,who organized other protests around Metro Detroit, accusing activist Tristan Taylor o

f trying to run the agenda for every protester in the state and shutting her and others out of the meeting with city leaders...

[DeLemur]

Has Underwood and Williams been part of the two week long protests or did they just show up?

It looks like Taylor and Underwood reconciled 'enough' to then protest together once she publicly 'checked' him. I will post the video as shown on Fox2Detroit...

[Zacha341]

Underwood has been active through out from the beginning. Per what I hear listening to AM 910 Superstation.

I do not know anything about the young man.

[Seven&wyo]

Defund and demilitarize the police;[[ you want to defund the police department of what was very recently the most violent city in America with an already small-for-its-population department. Not smart)

►End Project Greenlight, a public-private community partnership that uses real-time camera surveillance throughout the city, and facial recognition software to identify suspects;
[[You mean the surveillance system that's caught criminal and made areas around it safer? Not smart)
►Drop all charges and citations against protestors;[[fair enough)

►Do not carry out eviction orders;[[owners of private properties can do whatever they want WITH THEIR PROERTY, with that being said I hope there is a program for detroiters recently evicted as a landlord myself I would never evict someone during these times)

►Drop citations received by Detroiters during the stay-at-home order;[[fine by me)

►End “consensual” sex between police officers and those under custody; [[is this a thing?)

►Prosecute and fire any police officer involved in police brutality;[[Agree and every officer should wear body cam that can't be turned off)

►Do not criminalize homelessness;[[it's not a crime to be homeless, what are you talking about? Not smart)

►Make Detroit a sanctuary city, a municipal jurisdiction that limits cooperation with the national government’s effort to enforce immigration law;[[I'm pretty sure the president said no to this, so complain to the president)

►Create an independent office for disabled citizens,[[The fuck does this even mean?)

►Restore and maintain running water for all Detroiters.[[ There are already payment and for people, what else could be done)

Frankly these "demands" are borderline moronic. There's no head to this organization just a bunch of very loud people who like to say things people like, but no real plan to execute. Way to waste an opportunity for real change in making the police for accountable for their actions.

[DeLemur]

Good starting point to negotiations. Curious as to where the city or protesters will find an agreement.

Defund and demilitarize the police;[[ you want to defund the police department of what was very recently the most violent city in America with an already small-for-its-population department. Not smart)

►End Project Greenlight, a public-private community partnership that uses real-time camera surveillance throughout the city, and facial recognition software to identify suspects;
[[You mean the surveillance system that's caught criminal and made areas around it safer? Not smart)
►Drop all charges and citations against protestors;[[fair enough)

►Do not carry out eviction orders;[[owners of private properties can do whatever they want WITH THEIR PROERTY, with that being said I hope there is a program for detroiters recently evicted as a landlord myself I would never evict someone during these times)

►Drop citations received by Detroiters during the stay-at-home order;[[fine by me)

►End “consensual” sex between police officers and those under custody; [[is this a thing?)

►Prosecute and fire any police officer involved in police brutality;[[Agree and every officer should wear body cam that can't be turned off)

►Do not criminalize homelessness;[[it's not a crime to be homeless, what are you talking about? Not smart)

►Make Detroit a sanctuary city, a municipal jurisdiction that limits cooperation with the national government’s effort to enforce immigration law;[[I'm pretty sure the president said no to this, so complain to the president)

►Create an independent office for disabled citizens,[[The fuck does this even mean?)

►Restore and maintain running water for all Detroiters.[[ There are already payment and for people, what else could be done)

Frankly these "demands" are borderline moronic. There's no head to this organization just a bunch of very loud people who like to say things people like, but no real plan to execute. Way to waste an opportunity for real change in making the police for accountable for their actions.

[Satiricalivory]

It's become clear to me that the protests in Detroit are extremely unorganized and not very unified in terms of knowing what they actually want to get done or at least not very strategic about it. A shame because it hurts the movement.

[Satiricalivory]

Also I get people dont want surveillance but if you talk to Detroiters they are usually very approving of project greenlight. Just my anecdote though.

Businesses dont even have to participate if they dont want to.

[JBMcB]

►Prosecute and fire any police officer involved in police brutality;[[Agree and every officer should wear body cam that can't be turned off)

That's all well and good, I'm all for it. However, this is now involving union contracts, qualified immunity in the courts, and NLRB processes. It goes *way* beyond what the city council has the ability to control. Remember Eric Garner? It took five years to fire the police officer who choked him to death. Currently, the NYC police union is suing the city to get the officer reinstated. He will most likely win - roughly 70% of all officers fired for misconduct are reinstated, even after criminal convictions. There is a police union in Florida offering to hire any officer fired for brutality during the riots. If you want this type of reform, you are going to have to take on the police unions. Good luck.

[aj3647]

►Do not criminalize homelessness;[[it's not a crime to be homeless, what are you talking about? Not smart)

Municipalities "criminalize" homelessness by making it illegal to camp/sleep in a public space. So if you're homeless, and there isn't enough shelter capacity for every homeless person in your city, and sleeping on private property would be considered trespassing, AND it's a crime to sleep anywhere in public [[park bench, alleyway, sidewalk, etc), then you've created a situation where a homeless person cannot sleep anywhere without it being a crime.

Perhaps you should make an effort to learn about these things first before judging them. Start here.

https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads...Safe_Place.pdf

[Seven&wyo]

Municipalities "criminalize" homelessness by making it illegal to camp/sleep in a public space. So if you're homeless, and there isn't enough shelter capacity for every homeless person in your city, and sleeping on private property would be considered trespassing, AND it's a crime to sleep anywhere in public [[park bench, alleyway, sidewalk, etc), then you've created a situation where a homeless person cannot sleep anywhere without it being a crime.

Perhaps you should make an effort to learn about these things first before judging them. Start here.

https://nlchp.org/wp-content/uploads...Safe_Place.pdf

I know that, but it's still not technically illegal to be homeless. They should change the verbiage, but I doubt they even know what they're doing at this point. "Always sleeping in public parks for homeless" or "Designate certain parks for homelessness" any of those work fine saying you want to decriminalise homelessness won't get people on your side.

[DeLemur]

Very true. But remember union contracts are negotiated so its up to James Craig and Mike Duggan to bargain any excessive protection of out of control cops, out of the contract.

I wonder how good Detroit's union contract is.
The Officer involved in the Aiyana Jones death is back on the force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Aiyana_Jones

Frankly, though I blame Police leadership more than individual officers. This is about how they are trained and what they believe they are allowed to do. No knock raids should be outlawed and stopped immediately.

That's all well and good, I'm all for it. However, this is now involving union contracts, qualified immunity in the courts, and NLRB processes. It goes *way* beyond what the city council has the ability to control. Remember Eric Garner? It took five years to fire the police officer who choked him to death. Currently, the NYC police union is suing the city to get the officer reinstated. He will most likely win - roughly 70% of all officers fired for misconduct are reinstated, even after criminal convictions. There is a police union in Florida offering to hire any officer fired for brutality during the riots. If you want this type of reform, you are going to have to take on the police unions. Good luck.

[aj3647]

I know that, but it's still not technically illegal to be homeless. They should change the verbiage, but I doubt they even know what they're doing at this point. "Always sleeping in public parks for homeless" or "Designate certain parks for homelessness" any of those work fine saying you want to decriminalise homelessness won't get people on your side.

Correction, it won't get people like YOU on their side, but then again you and people like you were never going to be on their side regardless of what verbiage they used.

Anyways, the term "criminalization of homelessness" refers not just to bans on public camping or sleeping on the streets, but to a wide variety of policies, laws, and selective enforcement that specifically targets the homeless. This includes but is not exclusive to:
-Laws banning panhandling [[blanket panhandling bans were later ruled unconstitutional by the courts as infringing on the First Amendment)
-Laws banning giving money or food to homeless people
-Aggressive and targeted enforcement of "loitering" laws, used specifically to harass the homeless
-Ticketing people for sleeping in their cars

And the list goes on. I can cite you examples of cities across America that have done the things I have listed above. When people refer to "criminalization of homelessness", they aren't just referring to one single policy, they are referring to many polices and indeed an entire mindset that exists among the local government/police that uses the law [[and the selective enforcement of laws) to make homeless people's lives as difficult as possible so that they'll give up and go somewhere else.

[JBMcB]

But remember union contracts are negotiated so its up to James Craig and Mike Duggan to bargain any excessive protection of out of control cops, out of the contract.

The police officer's union, along with the firefighter's and teacher's unions, are usually the most powerful voting block in any given city. Mayors and city councils have tried to enact these reforms before and, having failed, been voted out of office. This is an issue with municipal unions. You get to vote for your boss. It usually takes federal intervention to get any reform at all, but even then the feds are limited as to what they can do by the union contracts. Besides which, the larger union organizations, primarily the AFL/CIO, have intimated that the police unions still have their full backing. As I said - good luck with the reforms.