The Protest in Detroit

**aj3647** · June-25-20, 08:20 AM

Black Metro Detroit man arrested by DPD for a crime he did not commit after facial recognition software falsely identifies him as a theft suspect.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ied-wrong-man/

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88268...rest-in-michig

**Bigdd** · June-25-20, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Way to much information. If you want to know if it works just go back about 5 years and go to any gas station in Detroit after dark. When you get your car back and you’re still alive you may appreciate the green light system!

I don't know how real Project Green Light is.

I think the camera feeds just go into a server,.. and IF someone later needs to see something,.. it can be pulled up.

I don't think there's really 20 whatever people sitting in front of monitors watching anything in real time.

This is a bit like Gilbert's surveillance system / police force. He has 6,000 some HD cameras downtown that are all connected via microwave internet to the Cube building. They have a bunker in the Cube with the camera feeds going in. But only a handful of people watching. For many if the monitored sites,.. the camera feeds do not go to the Cube in real time, but rather are stored on site, and if there's a reported issue, the site can be queried, and the video sent to the Cube.

I have a business in Detroit, and looked into getting a Green Light system. You have to use an installer from their list, and use equipment brands they approve [[instead of just HD cams of whatever sort works best). I called a lot of their installers, and only one would even give an estimate. The others said PGL was just too much of a hassle to deal with.

That one estimate was about $7,000. But when I called PGL to start the process,.. there was no answer.

I sent many emails and made many phone calls,.. and as of today [[5 some years later?),.. I still haven't heard back from them.

Last time I talked to some business owners who had the system, they said it reduced crime for a while when the program was new,.. but now they don't think there's much of a difference.

**enio** · June-25-20, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Black Metro Detroit man arrested by DPD for a crime he did not commit after facial recognition software falsely identifies him as a theft suspect.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ied-wrong-man/

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/88268...rest-in-michig

More info on Williams arrest from NY Times and the Washington Post. The Post article was written by Mr. Williams.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/t...on-arrest.html

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/202...cognition.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...is-technology/

Very sloppy work by the Detroit Police in investigating the alleged crime, and the subsequent handling of the arrest.

"An hour later, when [[Williams) pulled into his driveway in a quiet subdivision in Farmington Hills, Mich., a police car pulled up behind, blocking him in. Two officers got out and handcuffed Mr. Williams on his front lawn, in front of his wife and two young daughters, who were distraught. The police wouldn’t say why he was being arrested, only showing him a piece of paper with his photo and the words “felony warrant” and “larceny.”

His wife, Melissa, asked where he was being taken. “Google it,” she recalls an officer replying."

Facial recognition alone is not sufficient to establish probable cause. Looking forward to Mr Williams suing the city of Detroit and the DPD and winning a large monetary award for abuse of process in connection with his wrongful arrest.

**CassTechGrad** · June-25-20, 09:22 AM

So I guess they won’t be showing the old “The Rebel” Johnny Yuma 1950-60’s TV show on the Comcast westerns channel anymore??

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Name: yuma [[2).jpg
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**Wesley Mouch** · June-25-20, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by enio

...snip...
Ministry of Propaganda = Fox News.

Meanwhile, WaPo switches homepage Coronavirus dashboard from Daily Deaths [[declining = good for Trump) to Daily Cases [[increasing = bad for Trump).

Do you think the change was done to reveal deeper 'truth'?

Nothing on Fox News nor CNN is apolitical.

The Salon article you quoted works hard to color crime in CHAZ as the exception. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. How can we know when every report starts with an prejudicial opinion. Salon chose to use quotations like:

We haven't had any formal reports of [[business protection racket) occurring...

Maybe you could do some reporting on informal reports? Or just happily quote the official statement only when it supports your opinion? [[And not mention the one death by gunshot -- because it wouldn't support the 'happy street party' atmosphere you want to manifest?)

The media is a cesspool of politics. Facts are rare. Both sides.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-25-20, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by enio

...snip...
Very sloppy work by the Detroit Police in investigating the alleged crime, and the subsequent handling of the arrest.

...

Facial recognition alone is not sufficient to establish probable cause. Looking forward to Mr Williams suing the city of Detroit and the DPD and winning a large monetary award for abuse of process in connection with his wrongful arrest.

How does facial recognition software compare to eyewitness identification, I wonder? Can the same arguments of errors be made of other methods?

Perhaps defunding the police would help reduce error?

**Justin SOD** · June-25-20, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Way to much information.

I agree Wheels. There is way too much information available about why Project Green Light and the use of facial recognition is problematic/dangerous for it to be able to continue.

A growing number of states and major cities across the country are already banning use of facial recognition technology for the reasons previously mentioned in this thread. As of yesterday, Boston became the most recent example of instituting a ban on using facial recognition.

**aj3647** · June-26-20, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Perhaps defunding the police would help reduce error?

Perhaps not relying on flawed facial recognition software as the SOLE BASIS for arresting someone would help to reduce error?

**Wesley Mouch** · June-29-20, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Perhaps not relying on flawed facial recognition software as the SOLE BASIS for arresting someone would help to reduce error?

Couldn't agree more.

I'm sure facial recognition could be a good tool, but only as part of the toolkit -- never standing alone.

Banning facial recognition seems like an over-reaction the other direction. Why are we so eager to 'ban' things. So in Boston, I presume now that crimes will be committed, where the facial recognition system might have been able to provide leads to detectives -- who with corroboration -- might
be able to solve a crime -- and protect people from harm. Maybe we should also ban eyewitnesses too since they have been proven to often identify the wrong person.

**aj3647** · June-29-20, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Couldn't agree more.

I'm sure facial recognition could be a good tool, but only as part of the toolkit -- never standing alone.

Banning facial recognition seems like an over-reaction the other direction. Why are we so eager to 'ban' things. So in Boston, I presume now that crimes will be committed, where the facial recognition system might have been able to provide leads to detectives -- who with corroboration -- might
be able to solve a crime -- and protect people from harm. Maybe we should also ban eyewitnesses too since they have been proven to often identify the wrong person.

Yet when it came to the false arrest of Robert Williams by DPD for a crime he did not commit, your only concern was to defend the software that falsely labeled him a criminal. Are we even allowed to criticize the software in your eyes, or does that mean that we want to live in a lawless society of chaos and anarchy because we're concerned about mis-identification and innocent people getting locked up?

**aj3647** · June-29-20, 09:55 AM

Detroit Police SUV drives through a crowd of protesters, injuring several. Chief Craig to address this incident at a news conference later today.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...od/3276964001/

**401don** · June-29-20, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Detroit Police SUV drives through a crowd of protesters, injuring several. Chief Craig to address this incident at a news conference later today.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...od/3276964001/

The circumstances of these incidents are far from simple. Should the police vehicle have stopped when "agitators" didn't let them through? If it's moving slowly should you not allow a police vehicle to pass? You certainly shouldn't be jumping on the roof.

**aj3647** · June-29-20, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

The circumstances of these incidents are far from simple. Should the police vehicle have stopped when "agitators" didn't let them through? If it's moving slowly should you not allow a police vehicle to pass? You certainly shouldn't be jumping on the roof.

Perhaps police vehicles shouldn't drive into crowds of pedestrians if they don't want to find themselves surrounded by pedestrians. But hey, you seem to have it all figured out, so good for you!

**Wheels** · June-29-20, 10:29 AM

Where is the line where protest meets civil unrest and total disrespect?
You can’t fix stupid!

**401don** · June-29-20, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Perhaps police vehicles shouldn't drive into crowds of pedestrians if they don't want to find themselves surrounded by pedestrians. But hey, you seem to have it all figured out, so good for you!

Yes I do.

**cla1945** · June-30-20, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Perhaps police vehicles shouldn't drive into crowds of pedestrians if they don't want to find themselves surrounded by pedestrians. But hey, you seem to have it all figured out, so good for you!

It is my understanding that the "streets, highways, thorough fares" are for vehicles, not pedestrians. Any vehicle could be on that street and those idiot agitators do not have a right to jump on any vehicle, break out windows of a vehicle, or try to injure an occupant. The police have a right to protect themselves and they did by getting away. They are human beings and have been treated like crap by these mongers of hate. They could have done much worse, I know I would have!

**Bigdd** · June-30-20, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

It is my understanding that the "streets, highways, thorough fares" are for vehicles, not pedestrians. Any vehicle could be on that street and those idiot agitators do not have a right to jump on any vehicle, break out windows of a vehicle, or try to injure an occupant. The police have a right to protect themselves and they did by getting away. They are human beings and have been treated like crap by these mongers of hate. They could have done much worse, I know I would have!

Yep.

Some of the mob on the roof, hood, one smashed out the rear glass I read. The vehicle is surrounded. What do anyone do? What would we tell our wifes to do in a situation like that? I know I'd tell her to get outta there. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Better yet is to not be there in the first place. [[The first rule of a gunfight,... Don't show up)

But it's sorta the police's job to show up. Unlike the rest of us,.. they can't just flee when "S" hits the fan. It's their job to go TOWARDS the trouble and deal with it the best they can.

But when it's one or 2 people in a car, and they're surrounded by a mob,... stuff like this is gonna happen. That's why one shouldn't join a mob. [[A peaceful protest is a different matter)

The violent mob played stupid [[and criminal) games, and a couple of them won stupid prizes.

**softailrider** · July-01-20, 08:09 AM

No win situation for those cops. If they didn’t plow through the crowd chances are they would have been pulled out of their vehicle and had the shit beaten out of them. I know police are armed but they were, at that point outnumbered.

**Bigdd** · July-01-20, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

No win situation for those cops. If they didn’t plow through the crowd chances are they would have been pulled out of their vehicle and had the shit beaten out of them. I know police are armed but they were, at that point outnumbered.

Exactly.

And it's not like a cop is gonna blast his / her way out of a situation like that. Start emptying hid gun into a crowd? Of course not.

The move with the lowest injury is to drive as carefully as you can out of the mob,.. and let the medics deal with the injuries.

What was it? One guy with a sore leg? You can't hardly ask for a better ending that that [[except perhaps the arrest of all the protesters involved in damaging the vehicle and assaulting the officer.).

**aj3647** · July-02-20, 12:44 PM

"Oakland County Karen" pulls a gun on an unarmed black mother and her daughter outside an Orion Township Chipotle.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...on/5361865002/

**Meddle** · July-02-20, 12:59 PM

We need to ban the K word now? Why do people continue to make up stupid words and phrases?

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 01:02 PM

^^^ This country is heading towards a civil war.

Here is the ENTIRE 3 minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhd...ature=youtu.be

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 01:03 PM

Yes, it seems to be surpassing the S 'Shaniqua' racial stereotypical term for so-called boisterous black women.

Originally Posted by Meddle

We need to ban the K word now? Why do people continue to make up stupid words and phrases?

**aj3647** · July-02-20, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

We need to ban the K word now? Why do people continue to make up stupid words and phrases?

I'm glad that was your takeaway from that, Karen.

**Honky Tonk** · July-02-20, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

^^^ This country is heading towards a civil war.

Here is the ENTIRE 3 minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhd...ature=youtu.be

I thought fat people were supposed to be jolly? I think with the lockdown, the "protests", and the heat, everyone is stressed and flipping out. Here's an incident in Detroit from 2 nights ago.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...it/5354161002/