Minneapolis LEO kneeling on neck of black man That died...

[Richard]

Yep because I saw that cop kneeling on his neck before he died

Key word being neck,if you said throat it might be more plausible.

Pressure on the neck cuts off blood flow to the brain,as in sleeper hold,he would have been passed out 5 seconds or less and not because of lack of oxygen.

How do you know he was not on drugs or medication and he hyperventilated? We will not know cause of death until the autopsy,just because our eyes show us something it does not always make it so.

Another news agency reported that the fraud was based on trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill,that is a federal crime.

Funny how it is always about some innocent guy just walking down the street and the cops just jumped them for no reason.

You see a dead body laying in the street,you walk over to make sure before you call the police,as you are standing next to the body,police show up and arrest you for murder because they saw you standing there.

They arrest you,charge you with murder,next morning you are imprisoned for murder.

6 months later you find out that the person died of a heart attack.

You okay with that?

[Meddle]

And, yes, my Dad would be rolling in his grave regardless of what you say if any of his men knelt on someone's throat until they died. He was a cop, but he knew what was inhumane.

^^^Yes. We have a problem in how some LEOs are trained and expressing their authority in various situations. Literally [[what's being reveal increasingly in live videos) it's not looking good at all.

The last twenty years or so has seen a dramatic increase in tactically trained ex-military donning the uniform. The problem has been exacerbated by tactically trained ex military becoming training officers and pounding that militaristic training into recruits that have not been in the services. Police Officers no longer look, dress or act like public servants as they did in the 60s and 70s. They now look and act like guerillas or mercenaries, often as if they were in the jungles of some South American or Middle Eastern conflict ridden region.

[Richard]

^ I guess you do not venture into some hoods very much.

Police force has always preference x military because they are taught situational control and not to lose their heads under duress.

In 2018 there was just shy of 690,000 uniformed officers,there is going to be a percentage of bad apples and we cannot judge every officer based on the bad apples,that’s like saying one race has a lot of thugs in it,therefore everybody is a thug.

We demand safety and the police to be there when we call,the only way they can do that is by pure numbers on the streets and it is probably hard to fill the positions with perfect little police officers every time.

I see a noticeable difference between young officers and the older officers and always felt the young ones should be paired with the older more experienced officers.

But in order to put boots on the streets it has become one officer per car.

It was also explained to me that if you are older the last person you want to spend 8 to 10 hours a day in a car with is some young officer.

Most officers that I know who patrol the hoods all day are stressed out because of the BS they have to deal with,most people would not last a day in their shoes.

Try driving around all day while dealing with the worst society has to offer,we judge without walking a day in their shoes,then cannot figure out why they get out of hand,90% of their day is dealing with confrontations and people that would rather stab or shoot them before giving them the time of day.

Notice how the thread in the other post did not read

Black man beats white nursing home patient

Why?

The jail by my house had to change the policy to arrest equal numbers of race,because they could not figure out why more African Americans were being arrested in predominately African American neighborhoods, neighborhoods that you would get pulled over for being white.

So once that quota is met the amount of arrests is reduced, so now people know what time of the month is best to do nefarious things with the least risk of going to jail.

[aj3647]

Minneapolis Police "Use of Force" policy:
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/...cy_5-300_5-300

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway [[front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. [[04/16/12)Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. [[04/16/12)
Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. [[04/16/12)
PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

1. The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. [[04/16/12)
2. The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: [[04/16/12)
   
   1. On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
   2. For life saving purposes, or;
   3. On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
   
   
3. Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. [[04/16/12)

Based on the video, was George Floyd "actively resisting" during the ~5 minutes he had his neck compressed? If no, then these officers knowingly violated their own department's Use of Force policy. He was clearly under the control of the officer in the video, and not exhibiting "active aggression."

Manslaughter at a bare minimum.

[Richard]

^ jcole already said that policy is incorrect because,CNN said so.

how do you know what the video you are watching is not the tail end or result of when he was exhibiting active aggression?

You are calling man slaughter when you do not even know the cause of death.

You chastise the police for being judge and jury while you are doing the exact same thing based on a partial video clip. Nice.

The rendering unconscious neck restraint refers to what we call the sleeper,where you place your arms on each side of the neck,squeeze to restrict the blood flow to the brain which puts people to sleep for a couple of minutes,depending on pressure applied or for how long,you are not achieving that by restricting air flow.

Depending on pressure applied you can drop somebody in 3 to 5 seconds,even somebody twice your size.

do a test,lay on the floor and have somebody pin you with a knee placed on the side of your neck,get back to us with how much of your airflow was restricted.

His knee placed on the side of the neck does not restrict air flow.

What you posted has no reference to the action being used in the video,and you are calling manslaughter.

Chokehold is used to restrict air flow,forearm placed on the back of the neck,other forearm is placed across the windpipe,clasp hands and squeeze.

Police have been charged with murder before when yawing the chokehold for to long and most do not even have it as a policy any more.

Sleeper hold is quicker and more easily controlled,but if somebody has underlying Medical issues or weak blood vessels it can kill them.

A 90lb woman can bring down a 300 lb man in a matter of seconds and there will be little he can do to stop her.

You can learn how to do it here

https://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Sleeper-Choke-Hold

[jcole]

A good part of what you say is true, Meddle. I don't ever remember police looking like they were going into full combat when I was a kid. I'll say my dad and most cops I knew did have their own arsenals at home but not the high tech military hardware they have today. Dad had a .38, a .45, a 30.30 and a 30.06 that I can remember, but they weren't just sitting around locked and loaded. Everything was put away with ammo and guns in separate places in our home except for his service revolver which was usually loaded and either on him or in the top drawer of his dresser. They also had bullet proof vests stored in the trunk of the car along with a riot helmet after 1967. Still wore dress blues daily until he retired.

The last twenty years or so has seen a dramatic increase in tactically trained ex-military donning the uniform. The problem has been exacerbated by tactically trained ex military becoming training officers and pounding that militaristic training into recruits that have not been in the services. Police Officers no longer look, dress or act like public servants as they did in the 60s and 70s. They now look and act like guerillas or mercenaries, often as if they were in the jungles of some South American or Middle Eastern conflict ridden region.

[Honky Tonk]

A good part of what you say is true, Meddle. I don't ever remember police looking like they were going into full combat when I was a kid. I'll say my dad and most cops I knew did have their own arsenals at home but not the high tech military hardware they have today. Dad had a .38, a .45, a 30.30 and a 30.06 that I can remember, but they weren't just sitting around locked and loaded. Everything was put away with ammo and guns in separate places in our home except for his service revolver which was usually loaded and either on him or in the top drawer of his dresser. They also had bullet proof vests stored in the trunk of the car along with a riot helmet after 1967. Still wore dress blues daily until he retired.

You also didn't have people blowing Policemen away at traffic stops.

[jcole]

8 minutes of this, Richard, 8 minutes.

Just shut up with your excuses. There was no excuse

Key word being neck,if you said throat it might be more plausible.

[jcole]

Maybe not, but my dad's partner did get killed on a domestic disturbance call

You also didn't have people blowing Policemen away at traffic stops.

[Zacha341]

Umm, setting aside the other aspects of these thread responses don't you think you're being a bit exacting here?

Perhaps George Floyd [[yep I am going to start to use his name, lest we forget his personhood all together) should have reached into his hip-pocket for his Roget's Thesaurus'... turning to page 78 ......

After all, Floyd had plenty of time [[at least five+ minutes of sustained force upon his neck and vertebrae) to pick the most optimum wording...

In the mean time, the original and obvious problem is becoming lost and negated in the argumentation.

Next the justification [[neck, throat, breathing vs. choking et al) will be that the officer was simply administering chiropractic treatment at the triage level!

---SMH----

...He said he could not breathe, he did not say you are choking me.

[Richard]

So how does one justify their stance of guilty without the facts?

Hey I am all for it,let’s just start throwing everybody in jail based on what we think in the court of public opinion.

People do not want equal justice,they want to apply justice according to how and to whom they choose,is that not what it is about?

How many times in the past have people had knee jerk reactions only to find out once the facts came out it was not what it appeared to be?

It’s not being exacting,or justifying.

It does show that it is cool to be a criminal in the United States because when you do criminal actions and it goes south or not the way you anticipated,you can find plenty of support to blame others.

Although it has not worked out that way in the past,personally I find it much easier to avoid situations that involve the police being called on me in the first place,when it did not work out that way,I just thought okay I am busted,cuff me Dano let’s get it over with,because you are not going to win fighting them.

It does not show in the video but why do people think the police found it necessary to place him in that position to begin with?

look at the other video from the supermarket,they walk him around the police car to the drivers side and it shows a struggle to start with.

He first resisted when they removed him from the Benz suv,he had a scrape on his right shoulder,from that,they walk him over to the wall,they sit him down,look at the scrape then walk him the across the street to the other patrol car and a struggle ensues again.

There were other occupants in the vehicle,they were not detained or searched,they all got out with no problem and went in their way.

He was compliant after the original struggle,to the sidewalk and wall and was compliant on the walk across the street to the patrol car.

The camera view blocked it once they got around the patrol car but you can see heads moving around.

There are 4 body cameras and a medical examiners report that will provide the rest of the facts,none of which has been released to the public yet.

But I get it,white cop had his knee on a black mans neck and he killed him,that’s all we need to know or see,and that is all you guys want to hear.

The Jussie school of life.

Lets just shoot the cops and burn the city down,it could be fun and satisfying,even more so if there is a jewelry store along the way that we can pillage.

[Meddle]

You also didn't have people blowing Policemen away at traffic stops.

Late 60s, early 70s saw LODD numbers in the 200-250 range, sometimes higher. They've been well below 200 for the last few years.

DPD lost 29 from 1968-1977:

https://www.odmp.org/search?name=&ag...77&filter=nok9

[Honky Tonk]

Late 60s, early 70s saw LODD numbers in the 200-250 range, sometimes higher. They've been well below 200 for the last few years.

DPD lost 29 from 1968-1977:

https://www.odmp.org/search?name=&ag...77&filter=nok9

And why do you think that is? People have become more respectful?

[Honky Tonk]

And here we go...


https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-restra...004821405.html

[Meddle]

By comparison in the comparable 10 year period from 2008 to 2017, only five died. https://www.odmp.org/search?name=&ag...17&filter=nok9

The kicker there is that three of those were shot in the 70s and survived for those years making only two the real count.

1968 - 1977; 29
2008 - 2017; 2

Tell me again why POs feel it's more dangerous today than in the past and why they've become so aggressive?

[Zacha341]

You took my comments to a broad-brushed place not intended, beyond even what I believe or agree to.

I very was specific to what I was responding to and quoted you as saying. I did not say anything about justifying the Smollet case [[I did not believe Smollet's story). Nor did I posit that I agree with the 'court of public opinion' [[nope, I don't, not even the whole Me To movement in all of its out-workings which has the history of falsely accusing black men historically - recall the Susan Smith case).

I feel and stand on my opinion that you placed too 'exacting' an expectation on Floyds response [[...He said he could not breathe, he did not say you are choking me.) as to his supposed participation in his own death. That depreciates what happened, just as much as you feel it was exaggerated. I don't find that to be an appropriate 'starting' point, as it is usually presented as a form of justification [[victim caused their own death).

Heck, this very justification [['...he did not say you are choking me') may be brought up in the courts to justify the LEO's behaviors and actions. I'll remember I heard it here first!!

It's SO easy to say how one should RESPOND until the tables are turned!

That was the precise focus of my comments. I stand by that.

And I also pointed out in earlier posts that black people are not the only ones at the receiving end of questionable police responses [[including shootings, beatings, and harassment). Less than two-years ago a Minneapolis Somalian LEO, shot dead an Aussie woman! They have a pattern of misconduct.

Further, I made it very clear, without ambiguity from post one that I'm not reflexively anti-police. They stand as part of the thin-line between crime and civility in many cases. But where there the appearance of misconduct, the law needs to be exacted ie. the court room.

LEO's must know that the are not exempt.

So how does one justify their stance of guilty without the facts?

Hey I am all for it,let’s just start throwing everybody in jail based on what we think in the court of public opinion.

People do not want equal justice,they want to apply justice according to how and to whom they choose,is that not what it is about?

How many times in the past have people had knee jerk reactions only to find out once the facts came out it was not what it appeared to be?

It’s not being exacting,or justifying....

[Zacha341]

I will not justify police misconduct where it occurs, but I'll say that people are increasingly more callus and uncivil. Trigger points abound [[recall the security guard shot dead over asking a shopper to wear a mask).

Some will debate but having worked with and counseled teenagers, for example, I've noted a decline in basic respect and manners, increasingly absent from the culture. The level of degeneracy is has indeed increased. Couple that with hair-trigger tempers where all too often people are willing to give a SHOW of their behaviors for social media!

So as people are less restrained and willing to 'GO-OFF' that makes policing more difficult. It cannot be an easy job.

And if the LEO's are cut from the same cloth as those they are dealing with? Well... we have more misconduct. My elders thankfully long retired from LE, long before it got to this point.

Tell me again why POs feel it's more dangerous today than in the past and why they've become so aggressive?

[Richard]

You took my comments to a broad-brushed place not intended, beyond even what I believe or agree to.

LEO's must know that the are not exempt.

Its a public forum,my thoughts and your thoughts are not inclusive,we are having a discussion that others read and understand what applies to their individual thoughts and what does not.

I agree,LEO must know they are not exempt.

But I also agree that,just as they should be not exempt when they step out of line,they should also not be exempt from due process.

Its the same thing we expect for ourselves.

Now there are riots,business being burnt to the ground that will never rebuild,insurance will double and 2 years from now people will be wondering why it has become a goods and service dead zone and those who have no transportation or elderly will pay the price for ever.

What happens if the ME report determines that it was a result of a heart attack or another underlying condition?

No way to reverse the events now.

[Zacha341]

I noticed this the last time I got stopped [[bad tail light) 2019 in Detroit on the east side. The LEO got out of one of those black-on-black Dodge Chargers Traffic Enforcement marked cars in total tactical swat gear, flashlights, etc. strapped to his legs, at the ready.

For the first time in my life I felt a few seconds of fear as he approached my car. My driver-side window does not roll down, so I MADE sure to make the gesture with my open-hand to that affect to let him know I'd need to open the car door to hear him and give him my paperwork.

As he checked my documents he relaxed as did I he bid me a friendly ado without a ticket for the light. But the tactical attire said he was ready for a less than friendly exchange should it have occurred!!

...Police Officers no longer look, dress or act like public servants as they did in the 60s and 70s. They now look and act like guerillas or mercenaries, often as if they were in the jungles of some South American or Middle Eastern conflict ridden region.

[Zacha341]

OK, I get that. We're on a public forum. Even more so I determine to be clear on what I agree to and don't. I don't want that generalized or my intent misunderstood [[too bad our POTUS is not as careful in his comments).

I will always try to be.

Again my thesis-base of comment is that it is SO easy to say how one should RESPOND until the tables are turned!

Yes, now we have the riots. Not a good thing as your community suffers.

Regarding Floyd's physical condition: People can walk about with all matter of heart disease, obesity, hypertension for decades treated or not in some cases etc. then an altercation occurs and they die as conclusion.

So the altercation is still a factor? No?

Its a public forum,my thoughts and your thoughts are not inclusive,we are having a discussion that others read and understand what applies to their individual thoughts and what does not.

[aj3647]

And why do you think that is? People have become more respectful?

You said "You also didn't have people blowing Policemen away at traffic stops" in the 1960's, the data proves that you are wrong and that LOD deaths among police were actually far higher in the 60's and 70's compared to today. Data below.

https://nleomf.org/facts-figures/officer-deaths-by-year

If you look at it as a rate instead of absolute numbers [[since there are way more cops today than there were 50-70 years ago), police are LESS likely to be killed in the line of duty today than at any point in the last century.

[Meddle]

I will not justify police misconduct where it occurs, but I'll say that people are increasingly more callus and uncivil. Trigger points abound [[recall the security guard shot dead over asking a shopper to wear a mask).

I think it's just the opposite. You see those in the news because they're newsworthy in that they're less common. You hear about the school and workplace shootings because they're bigger individual stories. But recall the Detroit homicide rates nearing 1,000 in the 70s where they're in the low hundreds more recently.

The protests that turn bad are far more limited now, one location, a day or a few. In the past, we saw weeks of unrest in multiple cities across the country, some requiring military intervention.

[Richard]

Police attire switch to more of a tactical response actually started after the bank shoot out in California,where police response was restricted to the .38 revolver going up against high power weapons.

They had to go to pawn shops in Ofer to get weapons powerful enough to counter what they were up against.

Add that to fewer police on the streets and an increase of wakos shooting up schools they all have to be ready and prepared to deal with any situation.

With the advent of cell phones we have removed all of the phone booths that they used to instantly change in to become superpowers.

[Meddle]

You said "You also didn't have people blowing Policemen away at traffic stops" in the 1960's,

I couldn't find any examples when I looked overnight, but I remember more than one case exactly like that. I just can't remember the names or details. I remember one case where four gunmen bailed out of a car being stopped and opened fire on the officers somewhere on the NW side ... Outer Drive or something. But I can't find the specifics.

[Meddle]

Police attire switch to more of a tactical response actually started after the bank shoot out in California,where police response was restricted to the .38 revolver going up against high power weapons.

The North Hollywood shootout was in 1997.

The MOVE Bombing by Philadelphia PD was in 1985

Detroit was using armored vehicles in the 70s. Can't recall when they first got the Bearcat though.

The heavy militarization didn't start until fairly recently when Department of Defense began a program to offload excess military hardware to civilian agencies.