Peter Karmanos lobbying for Kwame Kilpatrick Pardon...

**Ray1936** · January-30-20, 03:03 PM

Or being faced by Bernie or Hiawatha. Where's a JFK when you really need him?

**iheartthed** · January-30-20, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

Or 46 state landslide,.. one of the two.

Presidents who can't poll above 46% don't win 46 states. In fact, presidents who don't poll above 50% don't win re-election, so...

**Bigdd** · January-30-20, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Presidents who can't poll above 46% don't win 46 states. In fact, presidents who don't poll above 50% don't win re-election, so...

Not so sure about that.

In Jan 2012 President Obama was at 45% approval [[10 months before his re-election bid). He won.

[[Pres Trump by comparison is at 44% according to Gallup, and 50% according to Rassmusen)

Also, a big swath of Democrats are seen as irrational and potentially violent by non-Democrats,.. so most conservatives, Republicans and Libertarians are hesitant to participate in polls.

On top of that,.. most polls are fixed. Look at the ones done by CNN, CBS, CSNBC etc in mid 2016,.. where they were sampling Democrats at a 64% clip,.. and then concluding that Sec. Clinton up by 8 points. [[Well DUH !)

Those same talking heads [[Como, Maddow etc) then had the temerity to act shocked when Mr. Trump won.

I think you'll find Pres Trump is going to win HUGE ! Especially as no one even marginally competent has entered the Democratic primary yet.

Landslide I tell ya. YUGE !

**iheartthed** · January-30-20, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

Not so sure about that.

In Jan 2012 President Obama was at 45% approval [[10 months before his re-election bid). He won.

[[Pres Trump by comparison is at 44% according to Gallup, and 50% according to Rassmusen)

Also, a big swath of Democrats are seen as irrational and potentially violent by non-Democrats,.. so most conservatives, Republicans and Libertarians are hesitant to participate in polls.

On top of that,.. most polls are fixed. Look at the ones done by CNN, CBS, CSNBC etc in mid 2016,.. where they were sampling Democrats at a 64% clip,.. and then concluding that Sec. Clinton up by 8 points. [[Well DUH !)

Those same talking heads [[Como, Maddow etc) then had the temerity to act shocked when Mr. Trump won.

I think you'll find Pres Trump is going to win HUGE ! Especially as no one even marginally competent has entered the Democratic primary yet.

Landslide I tell ya. YUGE !

I should have been more clear. Presidents who have NEVER polled above 50% in the "fake news" media polls don't win re-election. But, until now, we've not had a president who has never polled above 50%, so history is being written for sure. I'll give you that.

**Bigdd** · January-30-20, 05:07 PM

The media is almost entirely leftist,.. and they've been bashing him 24 hours a day since 2015. So intense has been their vitriol, that they've been able to grind down the presidents overall approval to just 44-50%

But when people step into the ballot box,... and no one can see their vote, they usually vote economy,... not overall feelings, and as of 3 days ago the presidents economy approval rating was at 56%.

I think you're going to witness the biggest landslide re-election since Reagan, who won 48 states.

**401don** · January-30-20, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

The media is almost entirely leftist,.. and they've been bashing him 24 hours a day since 2015. So intense has been their vitriol, that they've been able to grind down the presidents overall approval to just 44-50%

But when people step into the ballot box,... and no one can see their vote, they usually vote economy,... not overall feelings, and as of 3 days ago the presidents economy approval rating was at 56%.

I think you're going to witness the biggest landslide re-election since Reagan, who won 48 states.

I can't disagree with you. And it's pretty sad. Not only are people stupid enough to think a President has much to do with the economy [[what has Trump done other than bitch when he thinks the Fed might raise rates?) but they would vote based on that and ignore everything else this wacko has said and done.

**Hypestyles** · January-30-20, 09:44 PM

we'll see what happens. it could make for quite a bit of curious political theater if the pardon occurs. https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/...os/4602015002/

**softailrider** · January-31-20, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, I won't ever say "never" after what happened in 2016, but Trump's path to re-election is extremely precarious. He needs that perfect storm of situations to recreate itself in order to do it again.

A really terrible Democratic candidate running against him would be a big help too.

**lpg** · January-31-20, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Or being faced by Bernie or Hiawatha. Where's a JFK when you really need him?

Politics has sunk to a take no prisoners, you are for me or against me level. No compromise with others. I doubt if a moderate who was willing to work with both sides would get any support within their party. Sad.

**Hermod** · January-31-20, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Or being faced by Bernie or Hiawatha. Where's a JFK when you really need him?

JFK: Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.

Dems today: Free stuff!!!

**Hermod** · January-31-20, 08:38 AM

President Trump's 2020 path to victory in Michigan is in Macomb County, not in Detroit.

**Richard** · January-31-20, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

I can't disagree with you. And it's pretty sad. Not only are people stupid enough to think a President has much to do with the economy [[what has Trump done other than bitch when he thinks the Fed might raise rates?) but they would vote based on that and ignore everything else this wacko has said and done.

A president instills confidence in the economy with a known path.

Outside of the usual election year slowdown do you really think that things are happening because of a labor shortage or because of the uncertainty of what 2020 will bring.

Would you be willing to go on the hook for 20 to 30 million in order to build apartments when if a party takes power that has a Everybody has a right to a free house?

What would that do to your investment?

As it stands fed funds are used if you apply 20% market rate units,what if that changes to 30-40 or even 50% ?

At that point all you are doing is borrowing money for the pleasure of building for the government.

The markets did not shoot up on the eve of the election because of the economy that the previous administration built,it shot up because investors had direction and confidence.

**Gistok** · January-31-20, 11:01 AM

One thing folks here should remember about Trumps 2016 victory [[by only 10,000+ votes)... is that 80,000 Michigan voters left the presidential spot on their 2016 ballot blank. So if the Democrats make a good candidate choice in 2020, a win in Michigan is theirs to lose.

Over the last 4 years, I think that in Michigan Trump has alienated more of his 2016 supporters than made new converts. We shall see in November if that becomes a reality. And I think that both Macomb AND Oakland counties will be the deciding votes.

**iheartthed** · January-31-20, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

The media is almost entirely leftist,.. and they've been bashing him 24 hours a day since 2015. So intense has been their vitriol, that they've been able to grind down the presidents overall approval to just 44-50%

But when people step into the ballot box,... and no one can see their vote, they usually vote economy,... not overall feelings, and as of 3 days ago the presidents economy approval rating was at 56%.

I think you're going to witness the biggest landslide re-election since Reagan, who won 48 states.

It doesn't matter if they are biased against him or not. The same organizations doing the polls now are the same ones who have done the polls for the last 10 presidents. So even if there is a bias in the polling, it is already reflected in the bottom line.

Obama didn't have a high average approval rating, but his approval seesawed quite a lot over the course of his presidency. Trump's approval rating hasn't really changed much since he elected, which is probably worse for him. That means the people who loved him then, love him now. The people who hated him then, hate him now.

More people have hated him than have loved him over the course of his presidency. He might be re-elected, but if it happens it won't be with the majority of votes. And the difference this time around is that his opponent, whoever it is, will not make the mistake of thinking he's a joke this time. Any uptick in voter enthusiasm will definitely go against him.

**bust** · January-31-20, 11:48 AM

^^ Precisely why voter suppression has become the principal republican strategy. They know they can't win if people show up to vote. So everyone please do! And fight the variety of measures getting pushed that would discourage or even prevent you from doing so!

**Johnnny5** · January-31-20, 01:12 PM

The thread's going a bit off topic, but I do have to say that Democrats biggest issue this Fall isn't going to be Trump, but a splintering and alienation of their own base. If Warren or Sanders get the nomination there's going to be a large showing from younger, progressive voters November, but they will scare off a lot of moderate and more conservative Democrats and independents.

And with the opposite [[and probably more likely) scenario where Biden ends up with the nomination there's going to be little excitement among Millennials and Generation Z to motivate them to the polls and vote for a 77 year old man that recently reminded them to "leave the record player on at night" to aid in early childhood development.

I'm not a fan of President Trump, but I'll reluctantly vote for him [[Again) if what the Democrats have to offer isn't likely to be any better.

**bust** · January-31-20, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I'm not a fan of President Trump, but I'll reluctantly vote for him [[Again) if what the Democrats have to offer isn't likely to be any better.

I sincerely cannot understand how you can sleep with yourself to support such a disgrace.
Idealism may be sometimes unrealistic, but at least there is no shame.
Besides, whatever aspects are unrealistic won't happen.
We'll arrive somewhere in between.
I'm more worried about all the bad things that can happen when we're led by an authoritarian pathological narcissisitic sociopath, and already have.

**Gistok** · January-31-20, 01:53 PM

I have to second what Bust said.....

The man has lied thousands of times, and has been impeached. But some people will still give him a pass. Unbelievable....

**Ray1936** · January-31-20, 03:10 PM

Hey, I'm an old moderate, so I don't really much give a care over what may happen. But the dems have come up with a dozen candidates who are so far left, the party is about to tip over. Should MAGA take 2020, dems have no one to blame but themselves for getting so far liberal.

**Richard** · January-31-20, 03:32 PM

^ but as we can see they will continue to blame others instead of doing a little common sense soul searching.

Its a good thing they are not in the armaments industry,with all of thier dud bombshells they would last even less time.

**JonWylie** · January-31-20, 04:11 PM

So in 2016 there was no good choices because the establishment only wanted Clinton, and now in 2020 there are no good choices because there are too many people and they can't get behind one another. Maybe the people complaining about the candidates were never going to vote for any of them in the first place. If you can't find a Democrat you like out of the 20+ that were running, maybe you were never a Democrat.

**leapfrog** · January-31-20, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

So in 2016 there was no good choices because the establishment only wanted Clinton, and now in 2020 there are no good choices because there are too many people and they can't get behind one another. Maybe the people complaining about the candidates were never going to vote for any of them in the first place. If you can't find a Democrat you like out of the 20+ that were running, maybe you were never a Democrat.

Spot on!

**Johnnny5** · January-31-20, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

So in 2016 there was no good choices because the establishment only wanted Clinton, and now in 2020 there are no good choices because there are too many people and they can't get behind one another. Maybe the people complaining about the candidates were never going to vote for any of them in the first place. If you can't find a Democrat you like out of the 20+ that were running, maybe you were never a Democrat.

This November it won't be many different Democrats running against Trump, it will be one. Is there any candidate out of the dozen or so still left that can bring the party together between now and the election? I sure don't see Sanders or Biden doing so [[Given their differences many supporters of one won't be overly excited by the option of voting for the other). Maybe Bloomberg could simply buy it?

**Richard** · January-31-20, 08:19 PM

Notice how the timing of turning over the impeachment documents to the senate keeps the dem top runners out of the Iowa caucus,Monday is Iowa day they will not finish up until wed the 5th,that will hurt everybody but Biden.

Well played on Pelosi’s part.

**Bigdd** · January-31-20, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Notice how the timing of turning over the impeachment documents to the senate keeps the dem top runners out of the Iowa caucus,Monday is Iowa day they will not finish up until wed the 5th,that will hurt everybody but Biden.

Well played on Pelosi’s part.

That's what I've been thinking. They know that fruit-cakes like Warren and failures like Budijudge have no shot. And Sanders is likely to win the Primary,.. but then get crushed in a general.

So they're going to have to rig the primary again to ensure Biden wins the nomination. And it will be a better look if Biden is at least tied. So keeping him off the campaign trail for a few weeks will help close the gap for Biden.

Poor Sen. Sanders. Getting the Dem shaft yet again. He'll be in the lead [[likely) for a second convention,.. and get zero nominations. Perhaps he should run under the Communist Party?