New Arena on the Horizon??

**DLife** · January-17-10, 11:43 AM

It's a little risky to move the Wings out to Aurburn Hills for a few years, but if a new combined Pistons/Redwings arena gets built downtown the next 10 years it would be worth it. The Pistons should have never left the city.

jflick3535 · January-17-10, 12:37 PM

So Karen Davidson is going to sell the team but not the palace?

And when she sells the team and not the palace she isn't going to make sure that pistons stay at the palace?

She's just going to let the new owner get up and leave which would leave the palace empty for half the year?

**Red Devil** · January-17-10, 01:35 PM

Depending on who the new owners are, the Pistons might not just leave the Palace. They could leave the Detroit area altogether.

**mikeg19** · January-17-10, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Depending on who the new owners are, the Pistons might not just leave the Palace. They could leave the Detroit area altogether.

I kind of doubt that though. They could include a clause in the sale that states the team must stay here. And I also don't think that Mike Illitch would entertain the notion of teaming up to build a dual purpose arena with a team that might leave the area half way through the construction.

**tkelly1986** · January-17-10, 02:54 PM

Just a random though...but would Dan GIlbert be interested in selling the Cavs to buy the Pistons? I know there is the Lebron factor and who wouldn't want to have him on your team, however, the allure of owning your hometown team is compelling. This happened a few years ago in baseball when John Henry, who owned the Marlins, sold them to buy the Red Sox.

I think this is especially compelling if Lebron stays in Cleveland as the franchise price would inflate. Anyway, I know this is not the most realistic scenario, but just a thought.

**Supersport** · January-17-10, 04:15 PM

tkelly1986,

That very thought crossed my mind a bit ago. Perhaps a dual ownership by Dan Gilbert, or perhaps the sale of the Cavs in order to purchase the Pistons. As I recall, didn't he have a great interest in the Pistons? I thought once he found they wouldn't be forsale was when he bought the Cavs. Regardless, there is no doubt that there is the potential for both local ownership as well as the Pistons moving downtown. As we all said years ago, the Pistons will never move back to Detroit so long as Bill Davidson is alive.

I would love nothing more than to see the Pistons move to Detroit, though it should be noted, the Palace still seems to be a state of the art facility to me. That being said, if you could market the Palace as a year round entertainment/concert venue, then perhaps losing the Pistons wouldn't be such a great loss.

Gilbert, Karmanos, Penske, Ilitch, and some others seem to have a growing vested interest, and perhaps even a growing heart, to see Detroit succeed. Olympia entertainment already has control over the Palace as a venue and would continue to. Now, enter the prospect of a new sports arena geared towards Hockey/Basketball, with only a few months downtown a season between the two sports, and it seems to make sense.

Now, throw in the fact that possible involved parties plan to build the initial phase of planned light rail down Woodward, and their investment makes even more sense. Now, what would help create interest in extending a light rail not only up Woodward, but also out all the other main arteries, more than placing all of your large sports arenas in confines of downtown?

Only time will tell what unfolds, but I think with the right players involved, this is way more likely that just a few years ago.

**R8RBOB** · January-17-10, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Supersport

tkelly1986,

That very thought crossed my mind a bit ago. Perhaps a dual ownership by Dan Gilbert, or perhaps the sale of the Cavs in order to purchase the Pistons. As I recall, didn't he have a great interest in the Pistons? I thought once he found they wouldn't be forsale was when he bought the Cavs. Regardless, there is no doubt that there is the potential for both local ownership as well as the Pistons moving downtown. As we all said years ago, the Pistons will never move back to Detroit so long as Bill Davidson is alive.

I would love nothing more than to see the Pistons move to Detroit, though it should be noted, the Palace still seems to be a state of the art facility to me. That being said, if you could market the Palace as a year round entertainment/concert venue, then perhaps losing the Pistons wouldn't be such a great loss.

Gilbert, Karmanos, Penske, Ilitch, and some others seem to have a growing vested interest, and perhaps even a growing heart, to see Detroit succeed. Olympia entertainment already has control over the Palace as a venue and would continue to. Now, enter the prospect of a new sports arena geared towards Hockey/Basketball, with only a few months downtown a season between the two sports, and it seems to make sense.

Now, throw in the fact that possible involved parties plan to build the initial phase of planned light rail down Woodward, and their investment makes even more sense. Now, what would help create interest in extending a light rail not only up Woodward, but also out all the other main arteries, more than placing all of your large sports arenas in confines of downtown?

Only time will tell what unfolds, but I think with the right players involved, this is way more likely that just a few years ago.

For the record, you can't own interest in two NBA franchises. If Gilbert wants the Pistons, he would have to sell his majority share in the Cavs to get them. If Mrs. D wants to sell, I can't see her sell the Pistons and PS&E separately. The only PS&E gets sold is if the Pistons is part of the package. Problem with that is that a sale of both could go for about half a billion dollars or more. That would mean any future owner would have to literary throw away money to buy and move the Pistons to downtown.

Ilitch could partner up with someone who would buy the Pistons and he buys PS&E and move the Wings to Auburn Hills but he has spent the last two decades taking Foxtown one piece at a time. No way he walks away from that.

The smart move would be for the Pistons and Red Wings to share a arena in Downtown Detroit. It is what it should have always been. However, the fate of the region is in Karen Davidson's hands. Everyone knows what happened in Seattle.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

**esp1986** · January-17-10, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by jflick3535

So Karen Davidson is going to sell the team but not the palace?

And when she sells the team and not the palace she isn't going to make sure that pistons stay at the palace?

She's just going to let the new owner get up and leave which would leave the palace empty for half the year?

No, she will likely be selling both, but the Palace is worth so much, upwards of at least $300 million, which may even be on the low end, because of being such a good concert venue, so there is a good chance that they would be sold to different people. With a new owner of the team, they would likely balk at the asking price of the Palace and prefer to split the cost of a $400 million arena downtown, costing only $200 million rather than foot $300+ million alone. Time will tell.

MichMatters · January-17-10, 11:12 PM

There was just an blurb in the paper on Saturday about how the Palace is second only to the Madison Square Garden in NYC in terms of attendance. This is not to mention that the Palace underwent the addition of new luxury suites just in 2005 and 2006.

I'd really like to believe this story, but the story at the News reads more like conjecture than anything else. It just doesn't add up. Even with them dropping their prices on tickets, and the bad Pistons slump, the team is still one of the top money makers in the NBA, and the Palace, as stated earlier, one of the top entertainment venues as far as arena are concerned. I can't see how Richardson's daughter would want to give that up, even if she doesn't know how to call the top shots on a pro-sports team and arena.

I saw a lot of "if a = b, then b = d" in this article.

BTW, is it true that in those cities thay have both pro hockey and pro basketball that they often share arenas? I've never really thought about it.

**sg9018** · January-17-10, 11:23 PM

Michmatters, Yes it is true. Most cites who have both pro hockey and pro basketball, for the most part share thier arenas.
For example NYC,Boston,Atlanta,Chicago,Toronto,DC,Philadelphia teams share thier arenas.

**R8RBOB** · January-17-10, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by MichMatters

There was just an blurb in the paper on Saturday about how the Palace is second only to the Madison Square Garden in NYC in terms of attendance. This is not to mention that the Palace underwent the addition of new luxury suites just in 2005 and 2006.

I'd really like to believe this story, but the story at the News reads more like conjecture than anything else. It just doesn't add up. Even with them dropping their prices on tickets, and the bad Pistons slump, the team is still one of the top money makers in the NBA, and the Palace, as stated earlier, one of the top entertainment venues as far as arena are concerned. I can't see how Richardson's daughter would want to give that up, even if she doesn't know how to call the top shots on a pro-sports team and arena.

I saw a lot of "if a = b, then b = d" in this article.

BTW, is it true that in those cities thay have both pro hockey and pro basketball that they often share arenas? I've never really thought about it.

I think you meant Davidson's widow not daughter. I can believe it because she may not want the headache of running a NBA franchise. She can take the money and run. The team was his baby.

Here is the problem that could be on the horizon. The Red Wings and Ilitch will get an arena eventually. If said arena is built it will become the premier arena in Metro Detroit knocking the Palace to Joe Louis status which is second. To build another state of the art arena would be financial suicide to both because they would competing for the same shows in the same market. The Palace had the ups on JLA because JLA was built on the cheap for the Red Wings. That would not be the case this time.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

**Gistok** · January-18-10, 12:57 AM

Aren't the Palace and Davidson's original business "Guardian Industries" right next to each other? Wonder if Mrs. Davidson wants to sell that as well?

Supersport, you made this comment below... are you sure about this???

"Olympia entertainment already has control over the Palace as a venue and would continue to."

MichMatters · January-18-10, 01:08 AM

Bob,

I think we may be on two different pages. You're arguing the business acumen and general logic of the idea of this move. I'm simply working with what we're given in the article, and it's my opinion that either they aren't reporting all that they know, or a lot of this is wishful thinking and conjecture on their part.

I'm also of the belief that if there are really rumblings behind the scenes, it's been one ended. It makes an insane amount of sense for Ilitch to want to bring the Pistons downtown. He has nothing to lose from this rumermongering; in fact, he has everything to gain. If you ask me, this sounds more like a rather public attempt to put pressure on Karen Davidson to consider an opportunity than it does some reciprocated relationship.

I'd love to see the Pistons downtown with the Wings. I also think for many of the reasons you gave and many more it makes a lot of business sense...for Ilitch. I'm not ready, however, to simply assume that Karen wants nothing to do with the Pistons, especially since we have hear absolutely nothing to back up such an assumption. I really do think it's quite a leap, and one I'm not willing to take.

This isn't event to mention that unless Ilitch plans some Cowboy Stadium-type masterpiece, the Palace and the new arena would be far enough apart and in a metropolitan area the size of Detroit that they wouldn't compete against each other as much as you think they would. You're forgetting that the Joe already competes with the likes of the Palace and Pine Knob, and does just fine. The idea that even a new high-tech Joe would be a death knell to a Pistonsless Palace isn't a forgone conclusion in the least.

**Sarah** · January-18-10, 11:12 AM

The idea of the Wings and Pistons sharing an arena in the city is very exciting. I hope this is more than just speculation.

**christos** · January-18-10, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by showstoppa

don't any of you think the Pistons may be at a disadvantage being in Auburn Hills ? [[not trying to incite city vs. suburbs war)

would a Piston fan in say Ecorse, Taylor be willing to spend the gas money to make the drive to Auburn Hills ?

I live in Dearborn Heights and HATE driving to Auburn Hills. I would most definitely go to more games if they were in the City.

**bailey** · January-18-10, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by christos

I live in Dearborn Heights and HATE driving to Auburn Hills. I would most definitely go to more games if they were in the City.

There are just as many that dont drive to detroit because they hate dealing with detroit. the question a lot of this begs is why build another premier arena if Illitch can get an ownership in the Palace...that is if Mrs. Davidson is selling everything? Is there an economic case for the Wings to ever comeback once they move to AH?

**esp1986** · January-18-10, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

There are just as many that dont drive to detroit because they hate the drive. the question a lot of this begs is why build another premier arena if Illitch can get an ownership in the Palace...that is if Mrs. Davidson is selling everything? Is there an economic case for the Wings to ever comeback once they move to AH?

There are a lot that hate the drive to Detroit, but there are far more that wouldn't drive to Auburn Hills... mostly from the west and south, it is just hell to get up there... Ilitch has said all aloing that he wants the team downtown, Moving them to Auburn Hills would only be temporary while they figure out an arena downtown, whether it be to renovate The Joe or build anew.

While it would make sense ecnomically for the Ilitches to buy the Palace for the Wings, it would alienate the fan base... there are a lot of people as far away as Toledo who are die hard Wings fans, who go to games quite often... I split my time between Toledo and Northville, and I am a die-hard Wings fan, but if they were to move to Auburn Hills permanently, I would go from seeing 10-15 games a year to maybe 2-3, and this echoes the feelings of a lot of people...

I am a huge Pistons fan as well, but I haven't been to a game in about 5 years because of where it is... it takes about an hour each way to get up there, and I just don't have that kind of time.

Either way, the team needs to be centrally located so that everyone from the region can see games, not just the people in the northern suburbs. While I won't really like a five year period away from downtown, if it means a new arena there, I am all for it.

In addition, there is nothing around the Palace... I love parking downtown, walking to dinner somewhere, then walking to the arena then to the bar afterward, this wouldn't be available up there...

Perhaps most importantly, most people forget that Mike Ilitch doesn't have an entertainment empire in Auburn Hills... he has restaurants and bars downtown, not up there, so if the Wings were to move up there, he would lose out on all of that revenue that people like me spend at his places like Hockeytown Cafe before and after games.

**mikeg19** · January-18-10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sarah

The idea of the Wings and Pistons sharing an arena in the city is very exciting. I hope this is more than just speculation.

At this point I think it is. For years it was always just speculation and rumors you'd hear. Now that these things are happening and it's being reported, I think there is some weight to this. The article in the Detroit News didn't really give a lot of answers and there were a lot of "what if's", but there has to be something to it. Before the end of the hockey season I'd expect to hear something major about this.

**Patrick** · January-18-10, 12:27 PM

The one good thing about the Palace is ample parking. You do have to pay but you usually don't have to worry about your vehicle getting fucked with or paying $30 to some shithead. Can a new arena downtown have good parking options?

**mikeg19** · January-18-10, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

The one good thing about the Palace is ample parking. You do have to pay but you usually don't have to worry about your vehicle getting fucked with or paying $30 to some shithead. Can a new arena downtown have good parking options?

I'm sure it's going to have a parking garage. Plus you can park at Greektown Casino for free.

**esp1986** · January-18-10, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

The one good thing about the Palace is ample parking. You do have to pay but you usually don't have to worry about your vehicle getting fucked with or paying $30 to some shithead. Can a new arena downtown have good parking options?

Mike Ilitch owns a lot of property on both sides of I-75 downtown... depending upon where the arena is built [[that is another discussion entirely) a lerge garage could be built on the opposite side of I-75 with a coveres walkway over the freeway to the arena... regardless of where it is built, there will be a large parking garage built adjacent to it.

**R8RBOB** · January-18-10, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

There are just as many that dont drive to detroit because they hate dealing with detroit. the question a lot of this begs is why build another premier arena if Ilitch can get an ownership in the Palace...that is if Mrs. Davidson is selling everything? Is there an economic case for the Wings to ever comeback once they move to AH?

He could buy the Palace but why bother? His empire is based in FoxTown and the allure of moving to the suburbs just don't have that fear factor anymore. The best thing for the Wings is temporary relocate to Ford Field until a new arena is built. This spring the Frozen Four is going be held at Ford Field. This will be a test to see if the stadium can be a venue for hosting hockey games plus the businesses around the stadiums will get a boost from foot traffic as a third sports team plays in the area.

As for the Palace and the Pistons well if Mrs. D wants to sell or not the facts remain that the man who built it all is gone and I'm assuming that his son didn't want to fill the shoes so it falls to the wife and she got her kids to think about.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

**gumby** · January-18-10, 04:39 PM

I am confused as to how a temporary move to Ford Field like some suggest would work. I mean hockey and football season overlap by quite a bit and it isn't like they can just pick up the ice surface for a Lions Game.

**mikeg19** · January-18-10, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by gumby

I am confused as to how a temporary move to Ford Field like some suggest would work. I mean hockey and football season overlap by quite a bit and it isn't like they can just pick up the ice surface for a Lions Game.

I personally think playing at Ford Field would be a horrid alternative for temporary hockey. It seats what, 45,000??? The Joe [[due to the economy) can't sell out all it's games like it used to. So your going to have a half empty, gigantic building with absolutely no atmosphere what so ever. You might as well play all your games on the road because you could kiss home ice advantage goodbye. Best solution is a temporary home at the Palace for a couple years while the new arena is built. [[And I think it's pretty obvious it'll be a new arena and not a renovation as some have suggested)

**R8RBOB** · January-18-10, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by gumby

I am confused as to how a temporary move to Ford Field like some suggest would work. I mean hockey and football season overlap by quite a bit and it isn't like they can just pick up the ice surface for a Lions Game.

See gumby that is why we have forums. We all have a different outlook to a question. I didn't think of the ice surface. That is a damn good question.