New Downtown vs. Old Downtown Detroit

**jmpatrick** · April-08-19, 01:50 PM

I just spent four days in NYC. You can't go two blocks without seeing a MAJOR construction project, no matter where you are. It feels like they're rebuilding the entire city. There's hardly any parking lots because they don't need them. The subway system [[despite its flaws) is cheap, reliable, and gets you where you need to go.

Detroit is a hundred years behind.

**EGrant** · April-08-19, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

There are more office workers in downtown L.A., but that's about the extent of DTLA's excellence over Detroit.

Besides 10x the residential population, a world-class food scene, better retail [[yes, FigAt7th, but also the Fashion district, the Bloc, boutique shops and numerous grocery stores), actual mass transit, 5-star hotels and hotels capable of hosting major conferences, better weather, an entire theatre district...

Sorry to sound like an a-hole, but it's delusional to think that Detroit is even in the same conversation as DTLA. LA proper is the third biggest city on the continent; of course it's going to have a better downtown than Detroit.

**Worldsgreatest** · April-08-19, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by jmpatrick

I just spent four days in NYC. You can't go two blocks without seeing a MAJOR construction project, no matter where you are. It feels like they're rebuilding the entire city. There's hardly any parking lots because they don't need them. The subway system [[despite its flaws) is cheap, reliable, and gets you where you need to go.

Detroit is a hundred years behind.

These arbitrary comparisons make no fucking sense and serve no purpose but for a sad few to reinforce their inferiority complexes. Detroit shouldn't be compared to a city that's over 4 times it's size. Lets start comparing New York to Tokyo which is double the size. New York looks pathetic in comparison and is also a hundred years behind.

**Worldsgreatest** · April-08-19, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Damn, I'm not a LBP fan either, but what a heartless thing to say.....

About as heartless as he was so It's fitting.

**iheartthed** · April-08-19, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Besides 10x the residential population, a world-class food scene, better retail [[yes, FigAt7th, but also the Fashion district, the Bloc, boutique shops and numerous grocery stores), actual mass transit, 5-star hotels and hotels capable of hosting major conferences, better weather, an entire theatre district...

Sorry to sound like an a-hole, but it's delusional to think that Detroit is even in the same conversation as DTLA. LA proper is the third biggest city on the continent; of course it's going to have a better downtown than Detroit.

I think people are reading it as me saying that L.A. as a whole is like Detroit, which I'm not. I'm specifically talking about DTLA.

Also, if you have to use weather as a metric, you're helping to make my point. The quality of urban spaces aren't judged on weather. Bringing that into the discussion sounds like you're grasping. The cities with the best urban spaces have weather that is more similar to Detroit than to L.A.

Like I said, DTLA has a ways to go, and it's about the same league as Detroit. It's not one of the nation's premier downtowns by any stretch.

**EGrant** · April-08-19, 03:08 PM

If you want to ignore everything I mentioned, and nitpick the impact of weather on an urban area, go for it.

**Former_Detroiter** · April-08-19, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Now that downtown Detroit is making a comeback and will be getting H&M and other upcoming retail and restaurants do you think that this downtown will be better than Downtown Detroit of the 1950s? Do you think that Downtown Detroit with it’s unique concept will be able to rival New York’s, Chicago’s, Atlanta’s and Los Angeles’s downtown areas?

It won't be better, just different.

**iheartthed** · April-08-19, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

If you want to ignore everything I mentioned, and nitpick the impact of weather on an urban area, go for it.

Okay, DTLA also has more hotels. No argument there. Other than that, you really didn't mention anything that hasn't already been talked about. DTLA is still a ghost town after 5, unless there is an event at the Staples Center.

**stasu1213** · April-08-19, 05:22 PM

I was originally referring to the downtown midtown areas only. I know that as a city Detroit have a long way to go. 60 years ago Detroit had won out when it came to neighborhoods. There were wall to wall houses with front and backyards as to compared to New York's and Chicago's tenaments and brownstones of that era. Detroit also had retail districts all over the city which way anchored by Sears, Montgomery Wards, Federals, and B Seigel.

**Luke09** · April-08-19, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

Detroit will never be NYC or Chicago. It just won't happen. LA and ATL, I don't know if they can touch LA with their high end shopping/retail either in the surrounding area. But why do we need to? We can have our own unique thing here and we don't need to confirm to "BE" NYC or Chicago. Just let this thing happen organically and see where we are at in 20 years.

But if we are speaking in terms of architecture or importance of architecture, I don't think LA or Atlanta is even close. Strictly speaking of downtown, neither of those cities has anything nearly as impressive as we do.

I disagree. I live in LA and it's actually historic in DTLA with plenty of pre war buildings, especially along Broadway and Hill. A lot of that is now now being overcome by 10 or so highrise going up. But still, much like Detroit, LA had a population explosion in the early 1900s

**stasu1213** · April-08-19, 06:09 PM

One thing we must remember is that the other cities were more tourist attraction metropolis and Detroit was and still is a town and not a metropolis

**Worldsgreatest** · April-08-19, 06:42 PM

Detroit is a metropolis. it has 5 million+ people.

What is a town exactly? You make no sense.

**Former_Detroiter** · April-08-19, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

Detroit is a metropolis. it has 5 million+ people.

What is a town exactly? You make no sense.

I was thinking the same thing. Granted Detroit doesn't have 1.5 million residents like it did in the 50's but I don't think a population of over 650,000 would be considered a town.

**O3H** · April-08-19, 07:06 PM

Detroit is NOT a destination vacation location, and won't be for a long time.
The people that shop at a brick and mortar are local, and many cannot afford the goodies offered. It seems like a really wicked circus carousel.

**Bham1982** · April-09-19, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

These arbitrary comparisons make no fucking sense and serve no purpose but for a sad few to reinforce their inferiority complexes. Detroit shouldn't be compared to a city that's over 4 times it's size. Lets start comparing New York to Tokyo which is double the size. New York looks pathetic in comparison and is also a hundred years behind.

Tokyo has horrible built form and is hideous. It looks like a much uglier, less dense version of Mexico City or Sao Paulo. This is typical core Tokyo [[in an affluent residential neighborhood, no less):

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7134...7i16384!8i8192

Much of core Tokyo basically has Sterling Heights-looking homes, squeezed into an ultra-urban format, and then rebuilt every thirty years, evolving with living preferences [[since homes in Japan are a depreciating asset, like cars).

The only advantage of Tokyo over the great cities of Europe and the Americas, from an urbanist perspective, is transit. Tokyo has fantastic transit, the best on the planet. But the built form, while interesting, is garbage.

And Detroit has 5 million people, yet there's no non-U.S. metro of its size anywhere in the developed world with such horrible urbanity. It would be insane to compare Detroit to Madrid, Milan, Berlin, St. Petersburg, Toronto and the like, at least from an urbanist perspective.

**Bham1982** · April-09-19, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Like I said, DTLA has a ways to go, and it's about the same league as Detroit. It's not one of the nation's premier downtowns by any stretch.

DTLA is pretty weak. I would rank it a bit above DT Detroit, but just a bit. LA is a great city, but not downtown.

**JStone** · April-09-19, 07:33 AM

The name Midtown pre-dates Cass Corridor.

**iheartthed** · April-09-19, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The only advantage of Tokyo over the great cities of Europe and the Americas, from an urbanist perspective, is transit. Tokyo has fantastic transit, the best on the planet. But the built form, while interesting, is garbage.

Agreed. Tokyo's transit is probably the best in the world. But the city's individual architectural elements, aside from a few historical structures, are pretty boring.

**rb336** · April-09-19, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

DTLA is pretty weak. I would rank it a bit above DT Detroit, but just a bit. LA is a great city, but not downtown.

I think, for the most part, LA is just ugly from an architectural perspective.

**Hypestyles** · April-09-19, 01:08 PM

still needs a movie theater. I don't know how many screens "make sense" but something needs to happen on that front. hopefully in 2020 something will open.

**DeLemur** · April-09-19, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Agreed. Tokyo's transit is probably the best in the world. But the city's individual architectural elements, aside from a few historical structures, are pretty boring.

I hear Tokyo is surprisingly quiet. Is that true?

**iheartthed** · April-09-19, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by DeLemur

I hear Tokyo is surprisingly quiet. Is that true?

It was normal to me. Loud where you'd expect it, and quiet away from the high-traffic zones. There aren't a lot of people blaring their horns, or blasting music in their cars.

What I found surprising about Tokyo is that it is dense, but doesn't feel as suffocating as Manhattan does sometimes.

**DetroitGuy423** · April-09-19, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

DTLA is pretty weak. I would rank it a bit above DT Detroit, but just a bit. LA is a great city, but not downtown.

Agreed completely. I've been in downtown LA several times for work and there's not much activity on the sidewalks [[even during the day), empty storefronts, etc. Downtown LA was largely abandoned like Detroit with LA becoming a huge urban sprawl and the City of LA expanded, but the Downtown was emptied out. It's only been the last decade that Downtown LA is having a renaissance of its own, but a lot of people in LA don't think to ever go downtown for nightlife, etc.

**stasu1213** · April-09-19, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

Detroit is a metropolis. it has 5 million+ people.

What is a town exactly? You make no sense.

What Detroit are you looking 5? Detroit barely had 60,000 . The late Tony Goldman during his visit here had said that Detroit should not tru to be a Metropolis but try to remain a town. Detroit's population was spreader throughout its 140 swarr miles while Chicago and New York population were and still is fended on only a few miles even though New York has it give boroughs

**Former_Detroiter** · April-09-19, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

What Detroit are you looking 5? Detroit barely had 60,000 . The late Tony Goldman during his visit here had said that Detroit should not tru to be a Metropolis but try to remain a town. Detroit's population was spreader throughout its 140 swarr miles while Chicago and New York population were and still is fended on only a few miles even though New York has it give boroughs

Am I missing something here. I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say but I can't figure it out.