GM Poletown and Warren Transmission shuttering

[401don]

The Canadian autoworkers union president, Jerry Dias, has been all over the media since the announcement. Today he's in Washington trying to pressure the U.S. gov't, UAW and Canada to work together.
He makes some compelling arguments such as:
1) This is not about electrification and the demand for Crossovers and trucks since the Oshawa plant is capable of building all models.
2) GM now will make only one model, the Equinox, at one plant remaining in Canada. They also make the Equinox in Mexico so if that model slows they can pull out of Canada completely.
3) If GM quits building in Canada all of the suppliers will close as well since there won't be enough work from the other company's plants, effectively shutting down the Canadian auto industry.
4) Mexico exports about 4 times as many GM cars as it buys for domestic use where Canada does the reverse.
5) Oshawa has always been one of GM's most award winning plants for quality and both Oshawa and Poletown are newer plants capable of producing all types of vehicles with minimal investment.

Dias would like a hold put on the new free trade agreement since the changes won't go into effect for 4 years. He would also like a 40% tariff or some other drastic action put on Mexican auto imports by the U.S. and Canada until the playing field is leveled.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Yeah because Michigan's entire economy ran on a plant in Hamtramck.

Job growth is expected to continue through 2020 and only 1 out of 23 jobs in the state are auto manufacturing related, so I guess we'll keep enjoying good times.

Love the optimism, but I'm not so sure about that...

[Worldsgreatest]

Don't take my word for it. unlike other people who only have conjecture and an axe to grind.

Michigan’s economy poised to break job growth record

https://news.umich.edu/michigans-eco...growth-record/

Jobs: The state will add 55,200 jobs in 2018, 35,800 in 2019 and 39,300 in 2020.

Also this:

Michigan saw a 29-percent rise in the number of college-educated 25-to-34-year-olds from 2010 to 2017. And 13 of the 16 largest cities in the state surpassed the national average growth rate in attracting young adults with at least a bachelor’s degree.

[Zacha341]

Not my battle. I never argued that one did. I was responding to another poster re. what a gov. inherits vs what they own as their own policy.

Just what role do people think the governor of one American state plays in the financial success or failure of an international company?

[Canadian Visitor]

Yeah because Michigan's entire economy ran on a plant in Hamtramck.

Job growth is expected to continue through 2020 and only 1 out of 23 jobs in the state are auto manufacturing related, so I guess we'll keep enjoying good times.

Not to argue for or against your general thesis, but its worth saying that 1/23 is 4.3% of all employment.

Put another way, if it declined by 25%, that would be a 1.05% direct employment reduction.

A decrease of that size would also have knock-on effects [[retail in the immediate vicinity of a closed factory that relies on said workers for their bread and butter.)

That may well be absorbable.

But it would be more than a hiccup.

***

As with the GTA, I expect the larger area may well weather the storm and there may well be offsetting jobs created.

But as the jobs may be of a different type, with a different skill set required, and probably in a somewhat different area [[geographically); there will still be many people adversely affected.

[aj3647]

So Trump is out of line when he objects to GM closing U.S. plants and firing 15,000 workers -- even after getting billions in loan guarantees, property tax abatements and a huge corporate tax cut?

GM earned a profit of $9.4 billion last year. Be pissed at GM, not Trump. It isn't Trump's fault GM can't make cars people want to buy.

It's not Trump's fault that he handed out massive corporate tax cuts, no strings attached? The GOP could have written it in a way that corporations could have received tax credits on certain conditions [[reinvestment in growing their business, job creation, etc.). Instead, they got a big handout in exchange for nothing, which many of them used to buy back their own stock [[which creates no jobs and benefits no one but wealthy stockholders) or increase corporate executive compensation. Among those who increased their stock buybacks after the tax cut was none other than General Motors. Weird huh! Every system gets the results that it is designed to get. If you just hand a rich person a big bag of money and don't attach any conditions to it, don't cry when they just line their own pockets with it instead of using it for the greater social good. You know, believe it or not, some of us predicted that this type of thing would happen before the tax cuts were passed, so let's not sit there and pretend like this exact situation was unforeseeable.

Then there is, of course, the personal hypocrisy inherent to Trump [[of all people) making that specific objection too. Need I remind everyone where Donald and Ivanka have their personally-branded clothing lines made? Hint: It's not in America. Need I also remind everyone of Trump's personal history of gaming the system for tax abatements, subsidies, credits, etc and then having his businesses fail, only for him to ride off into the sunset having lined his own pockets just before everyone else gets left holding the bag for the losses and hundreds or thousands of people lose their jobs?

[Danny]

So Trump is out of line when he objects to GM closing U.S. plants and firing 15,000 workers -- even after getting billions in loan guarantees, property tax abatements and a huge corporate tax cut?

GM earned a profit of $9.4 billion last year. Be pissed at GM, not Trump. It isn't Trump's fault GM can't make cars people want to buy.

General Motors is playing the Roger Smith Policy!!! They quote "If we made a profit for a factory that sells a car, close down that factory that don't sell cars and find another place that we don't have a pay to build another factory."

[Maof]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

Here's another tweet from you know who. GM made him look foolish, bragging on all the jobs he was to bring back. I don't agree with them shuttering plants either, but Barra said his tariffs are a big part of it, combined with slow sales of those expensive car models.

He's an effin' idiot! He's just pissed his "promises" can't be kept and again, can't take looking like a fool.

[ABetterDetroit]

It would only seem logical to have a state of the art manufacturing facility directly in view out of their own windows of the HQ.

Thats exactly what they could have in Detroit Hamtramck Assembly if they had a drop of vision. It should be part of the recruiting tour for every bright young mind they try to hire at the tech center or downtown.

Now if they shutter it they will have the exact opposite message: “We don’t give a shit about anyone no matter how close to us. Look right out there at that plant we killed. Detroit making a comeback? We don’t give a fuck, we are vicious. Now, how about coming to work for us?”

[aj3647]

2015: Candidate Trump suggests shifting auto production from Michigan to anti-union states in the Deep South to save on labor costs

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...utos/31589899/

He said U.S. automakers could shift production away from Michigan to communities where autoworkers would make less. “You can go to different parts of the United States and then ultimately you’d do full-circle — you’ll come back to Michigan because those guys are going to want their jobs back even if it is less,” Trump said. “We can do the rotation in the United States — it doesn’t have to be in Mexico.”
He said that after Michigan “loses a couple of plants — all of sudden you’ll make good deals in your own area.”

[Maof]

2015: Candidate Trump suggests shifting auto production from Michigan to anti-union states in the Deep South to save on labor costs

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...utos/31589899/

Like I said, he's an effin' idiot.

[Smirnoff]

The Canadian autoworkers union president, Jerry Dias, has been all over the media since the announcement. Today he's in Washington trying to pressure the U.S. gov't, UAW and Canada to work together.
He makes some compelling arguments such as:
1) This is not about electrification and the demand for Crossovers and trucks since the Oshawa plant is capable of building all models.
2) GM now will make only one model, the Equinox, at one plant remaining in Canada. They also make the Equinox in Mexico so if that model slows they can pull out of Canada completely.
3) If GM quits building in Canada all of the suppliers will close as well since there won't be enough work from the other company's plants, effectively shutting down the Canadian auto industry.
4) Mexico exports about 4 times as many GM cars as it buys for domestic use where Canada does the reverse.
5) Oshawa has always been one of GM's most award winning plants for quality and both Oshawa and Poletown are newer plants capable of producing all types of vehicles with minimal investment.

Dias would like a hold put on the new free trade agreement since the changes won't go into effect for 4 years. He would also like a 40% tariff or some other drastic action put on Mexican auto imports by the U.S. and Canada until the playing field is leveled.

Losing the Camaro after all of the automation & quality investment now makes cents, it was planned....

[LongGone06]

General Motors is playing the Roger Smith Policy!!! They quote "If we made a profit for a factory that sells a car, close down that factory that don't sell cars and find another place that we don't have a pay to build another factory."

I can't imagine Roger Smith ever said anything quite like that. A corporation's first priority is to maximize value for its shareholders; you know, the owners of the company. Maximizing value means the company is operating efficiently and profitably. Putting other priorities ahead of maximizing value results in competitive disadvantage [[which is one reason the government's car czar didn't attach more "strings" to the investments) and often leads to the board coming under intense pressure from activist investors. Now, if you want to argue that the auto companies should have gone straight into bankruptcy without government backing, that's fair.

[Johnnny5]

Dias would like a hold put on the new free trade agreement since the changes won't go into effect for 4 years. He would also like a 40% tariff or some other drastic action put on Mexican auto imports by the U.S. and Canada until the playing field is leveled.

This is the only thing that will make any difference. Otherwise all auto manufacturers [[GM, Ford, FCA, Etc) are just going to hasten the rolling process of closing U.S and Canadian factories while they expand those in Mexico. Why wouldn't they? In Mexico the wages and benefits they have to pay are just a fraction of those here, and with widespread corruption and a Mexican government completely inept at protecting its people they can roll over any labor issues with ease.

[313WX]

Don't take my word for it. unlike other people who only have conjecture and an axe to grind.

Michigan’s economy poised to break job growth record

https://news.umich.edu/michigans-eco...growth-record/



Also this:

Create your own thread and stop trying to hijack this one.

[Zacha341]

You don't see Cams often as it goes. Strangely I am seeing more Audies for the discreet speed scene albeit Audies can be terribly bland, but built for speed nonetheless.

Nothing like the roar of the Camaro back in the day. Sigh.....

Losing the Camaro after all of the automation & quality investment now makes cents, it was planned....

[bust]

Maybe this article contributes something interesting to the discussion. It's about how activist hedge funds have increasingly been pushing companies into decisions that bring short term gains in their stock price for the benefit of shareholders [[including of course the hedge funds) but that come at the long term expense of the best interests of the companies, their employees, the economy, and society at large.

I don't know to what extent GM was thinking about propping up its stock price when it made its recent decisions, but as I was reading the article it was the first thing I thought about, considering how Wall Street celebrated the announcement. Hedge funds tend to congregate around Greenwich CT, so maybe there were some celebrations there too.

Don't be discouraged by the title:

The Founder of Panera Bread Explains the Economic Forces That Led to Trump
https://www.newyorker.com/business/c...t-led-to-trump

Stockbrokers are a related but somewhat different animal. They love volatility. They win whether stocks are rising or falling. They just care about selling. Like real estate agents, they make their money from a commission on the sale.

Many of them are also scoundrels, for sure.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

2015: Candidate Trump suggests shifting auto production from Michigan to anti-union states in the Deep South to save on labor costs

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...utos/31589899/

How the hell are they saving on labor costs, when auto workers in the South make the same as those in the Midwest, just without a union? Again, Dump shows he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Honky Tonk]

How the hell are they saving on labor costs, when auto workers in the South make the same as those in the Midwest, just without a union? Again, Dump shows he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The only reason the auto workers in the South make the same as those in the Midwest is because of the Unions. Same with the Japanese auto plants. Once the Unions are broken, all bets are off.

[313WX]

How the hell are they saving on labor costs, when auto workers in the South make the same as those in the Midwest, just without a union? Again, Dump shows he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

While the wages are similar, the labor costs are not.

For example, auto workers in the south don't get pensions and healthcare benefits for life when they retire. They can also be laid off at any time, no ifs, ands or buts. Not to mention, the workers aren't entitled to a minimum numbers of hours for work. If they're only needed part time or there's no more for them to do that day, they get sent home with no pay

Unfortunately, Trump was correct about that one thing [[broken clocks are eight twice per day).

[Pat001]

Forget Donald Trump. GM is a dinosaur with a gigantic body and a little pea-sized brain. When GM was rescued from bankruptcy ten years ago they failed to get their costs under control. To be brutally honest, the federal loan guarantees bailed out the UAW, not GM.

If Hillary Clinton had won, GM would still be closing plants and firing people even while making a $9.4 billion profit. If GM was making cars people wanted to buy, GM wouldn’t have to fire people and close plants. GM’s problems are the result of their own bad management.

In sharp contrast to GM, the Asian and European auto makers aren’t dropping model lines and closing plants. The GM plant in Lordstown, OH is closing bc the Cruz isn’t selling. In Marysville, OH, the Honda plant is pumping out Acuras and Accords and no one in Marysville is getting a pink slip for Christmas.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

While the wages are similar, the labor costs are not.

For example, auto workers in the south don't get pensions and healthcare benefits for life when they retire. They can also be laid off at any time, no ifs, ands or buts. Not to mention, the workers aren't entitled to a minimum numbers of hours for work. If they're only needed part time or there's no more for them to do that day, they get sent home with no pay

Unfortunately, Trump was correct about that one thing [[broken clocks are eight twice per day).

Thanks for explaining, didn't know they didn't get pensions or HC benefits, so the legacy costs aren't there. They are responsible for their own retirement, not the company. I thought all auto workers that put in the time get pensions, not to mention 40 hrs pay per week. Up here, they use to have what was called a short work week, where if something happened where employees got sent home for a parts shortage or line breakage, they still got paid 36 hrs, which isn't 40, but damn close. I'm sure that has long been abolished from previous contracts.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Forget Donald Trump. GM is a dinosaur with a gigantic body and a little pea-sized brain. When GM was rescued from bankruptcy ten years ago they failed to get their costs under control. To be brutally honest, the federal loan guarantees bailed out the UAW, not GM.

If Hillary Clinton had won, GM would still be closing plants and firing people even while making a $9.4 billion profit. If GM was making cars people wanted to buy, GM wouldn’t have to fire people and close plants. GM’s problems are the result of their own bad management.

In sharp contrast to GM, the Asian and European auto makers aren’t dropping model lines and closing plants. The GM plant in Lordstown, OH is closing bc the Cruz isn’t selling. In Marysville, OH, the Honda plant is pumping out Acuras and Accords and no one in Marysville is getting a pink slip for Christmas.

The way you spin it, I'd have to agree. Foreign automakers in the US and abroad are humming right along, but I believe that's also because of the perception that the American built vehicles aren't as well built or reliable, correct? The thing we have them beat on, are pickup trucks. They don't really compete with the Detroit 3 on those.

[313WX]

Thanks for explaining, didn't know they didn't get pensions or HC benefits, so the legacy costs aren't there. They are responsible for their own retirement, not the company. I thought all auto workers that put in the time get pensions, not to mention 40 hrs pay per week. Up here, they use to have what was called a short work week, where if something happened where employees got sent home for a parts shortage or line breakage, they still got paid 36 hrs, which isn't 40, but damn close. I'm sure that has long been abolished from previous contracts.

To be fair, you are correct when it
comes to the GM/Ford plants down south [[I.E. Texas, Tennessee, etc.).

[aj3647]

If Hillary Clinton had won, GM would still be closing plants and firing people even while making a $9.4 billion profit.

True, but they wouldn't have received a 40% tax cut while doing it. So that's one big difference there. "Thanks for the no-strings-attached massive corporate tax cut, suckers!" -Mary Barra