Detroit continues to die

[O3H]

How about agreeing the number is 670,000 plus or minus a few. :-)

Detroit News 2018 figures - Detroit's population was 673,104
as of last summer, a decline of 2,376 residents.
The drop is close to the previous year's loss of 2,770.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ows/634577002/

The Southeast Michigan Council of Governments forecasts
that the city will continue to lose residents until 2025,
when it predicts it will bottom out at 631,668. [[SEMCOG)

Let's stop with the absolute nonsense and face reality - head on -

From April 2010 to April 2018 –
the labor force in Detroit shrank from 277,972 to 244,123.
The city’s population continued to shrink, though at a slower rate.

White folks will not plunge head on into a 80% -90% BLACK population
where the school system simply sucks a tremendous amount.
Few BLACK people would bother to move in those neighborhoods

[bragaboutme]

As far as the media I understand. As far as census statistics I understand. Let's make a real point the neighborhoods that I have seen with my own eyes. The houses that were boarded up are now occupied, meaning there are still abandoned houses, but from Eastside to westside I have actually seen people that weren't there 5 years ago. You came arrive with all the statistics you want, but I'm going from what I've seen in my neighborhood and across the city. Actual houses being occupied. I went to Woodbridge and ate at a pizza place on Trumbull that was abandoned 5yrs ago the growth is real. The name of this thread is Detroit dieing, am I right? From what I've seen from real eye sight is there is growth in the neighborhoods. Let's look at real numbers from my block and the block across and beyond. I look at my house that I'm rehabbing. That is one resident. Next door is my uncle that's two. We have to go etc. With this I have known this and my whole area for all my life net gain in a six block area in the last 5 years is 50. So that's 50 people just in a 6 block area. No Google maps, no census. This is real from a bird's eye view just in my area. I grew up here and I make over the amount that you would consider poverty and midclass. Also around Helen and Mack my family grew up and still are there is a real sure of growth right around the corner from Indian village. New construction and real growth. If anyone that lives and grew up on the Eastside of Detroit can say anything otherwise let me know. The fundamentals of debate is point, counter point. Google maps is not a counter point. As the great moderator Lowell started this website said, "let's discuss!".

[SammyS]

^^
I hear ya brags. Let's not forget my favorite neck of the woods, Brush Park. 80% sold out at ~$600k a pop. That's over $50M and Google maps has this to show.

[SammyS]

Google maps vs. reality

[SammyS]

The Googs, and the real

[SammyS]

In all seriousness, I always take out-of-towners down at every opportunity I can take. Not a single person has been disappointed at the progress Detroit has made over the past few years. There's certainly a buzz and those that believe do feel it.

[O3H]

The actual MAP looks a whole lot more like this :

https://images.theconversation.com/f...mat&q=45&w=754

Skip Google , it doesn't show the BIG picture of the boundaries of Detroit

Only a very small sliver, a thin pie slice has had some ""recovery"
The majority of Land Mass - just isn't making it forward

NO ONE takes people on the 143 SQUARE MILE tour of the city
---- c'mon now, let's be serious, truthful, and honest ----------

The city’s hottest corridors for redevelopment is just 7.2 square miles.
This encompasses the traditional downtown along with adjoining neighborhood districts such as Midtown, Corktown, and Woodbridge.
“The 7.2,” as it is called, houses the major institutions and attractions
in the city, from sports stadiums to Wayne State University,
from clusters of art galleries to collections of
architecturally significant buildings,
and that is where potential exists.

I've done my homework ----- who did theirs ?

[SammyS]

And I will bet that only 5 years ago you were shitting on the "small slivers" too, right?

I think I'm done with this thread

[O3H]

Calling you out on the 100 square miles of Detroit
--- would make you quit ----- By Bye Sammy

Try touring Brightmoor, the roughly 4-square-mile
neighborhood in Detroit, Michigan, which is BOOMING.....[[not)

Not a single person has been disappointed at the progress Detroit has made over the past few years.

https://www.roadsnacks.net/worst-detroit-neighborhoods/

[313WX]

Greater demand for housing could just mean more renters amongst the existing population are now in good enough financial standing to own a home, not necessarily that more people from outside a jurisdiction are moving in.

[iheartthed]

Greater demand for housing could just mean more renters amongst the existing population are now in good enough financial standing to own a home, not necessarily that more people from outside a jurisdiction are moving in.

Rents have also been increasing.

[O3H]

IF you can buy a house for $5,000 or maybe $10,000
than the rule ""it's too good to be true"" is in full effect.
There are very specific reasons it is soooooooo darn cheap.

Population dwindled in Detroit, everyone with common sense knows it.
PLENTY of neighborhoods in those 100+ SQUARE MILES are not
exactly where a ""new family"" relocating to Michigan would choose

Evictions are a real , harsh reality, for many renters in metro Detriot.
https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...ered-evictions

[K-slice]

I have an issue with the whole argument based on "Detroit is improving but only in a limited number of areas". People who subscribe to this seem not to notice that their list of these improving areas is constantly growing.

Today it includes Downtown, Corktown, Midtown, New Center, Lafayette Park, Boston Edison, Indian Village, West Village, Woodbridge, and maybe a few others.

Five years ago this list included Downtown, Corktown, Midtown, New Center, Lafayette Park, Boston Edison and Indian Village.

Ten years ago this list included Downtown, Corktown, Midtown, and New Center.

I'm convinced he people still making this argument won't be satisfied or acknowledge the comeback until every neighborhood in the "100 square miles" is thriving and full of residents and businesses.

[Bham1982]

Today it includes Downtown, Corktown, Midtown, New Center, Lafayette Park, Boston Edison, Indian Village, West Village, Woodbridge, and maybe a few others.

That's like 5% of the city. And all those areas were improving 5 and 10 years ago.

Also, most these areas have very modest gains. B-E is still dirt cheap for grand mansions on the region's main drag. Indian Village is cheaper still. You can buy a beautiful 4,000 square foot home in IV for less than a crappy McMansion in exurban Brighton. Woodbridge is like two streets. Lafayette Park is a few urban renewal towers and townhouses, and was never bad, ever.

[O3H]

Click the link
https://images.theconversation.com/f...mat&q=45&w=754

Detroit [[as a whole city) isn't doing much evolution forward

When the scales tip 55/45 , then I would it call it a renaissance beginning

[bragaboutme]

The list is pretty long so far and growing, you can't argue that. There is new construction and rehabbing going on through out the whole city, you can't argue that. The are people the where there were absolutely no people there 5 years ago, you can't argue that! Detroit as a whole especially downtown looked cold and desolate 5 years ago, you can't argue that! The name of the thread is, is Detroit dieing?, You can't argue that. The census numbers are all over the place, nothing accurate, you can't argue that. If this discussion took place 5yrs ago I would have been with you, but the argument stands in favor of significant increase in the future for Detroit as a whole even if the population went down to 600,000 that's still a lot of people! Saying Woodbridge is like two blocks is like saying Wayne State is like a community college. You should really ride or walk and actually see what's going on with these areas that's all I'm saying.

[Bham1982]

The list is pretty long so far and growing, you can't argue that. There is new construction and rehabbing going on through out the whole city, you can't argue that.

Actually, yeah, I can definitely argue this. There is very little new construction/rehab on a citywide basis, especially compared to other major cities.

In many cities, every other house is being replaced or gut renovated. In Detroit, there's almost zero infill except for some horrific, largely abandoned tract homes from the early 2000's.

Detroit has shown some modest, localized improvement, but is still declining overall. Visit Seattle, or Toronto, or Brooklyn/Queens and get back to us on urban infill.

[O3H]

Detroit - where the money comes from, - the reality check :

[O3H]

I can, and will argue that, exactly !!!!
Detroit , as a city entity, isn't in great shape financially/otherwise.

Who travels to the NASTY places on a regular basis
to view them and track them, account for them ????
Certainly not the majority of people from the suburbs sightseeing.

It's like selling someone an 8 cyl engine with 200,000 miles on it,
just because you degreased it and repainted it, to look nice at first glance.
The guts still have a lot of wear and tear on them and will fail soon.

Let us count how Detroit gets money, functions, operates, lately.
Detroit revenue by source
https://i2.wp.com/crcmich.org/wp-con...ng?w=483&ssl=1

That is not a healthy pie chart, it indicates problems.

[O3H]

IF land is soooo cheap, and we have open/clear areas of 25, 50, 75 acres
- Why are we not seeing dozens of the Million Square Foot Warehouses,
Manufacturing/Operational Facilities ?

CAPITAL INVESTMENT seems to elude the city of Detroit , as many, many companies passed over the city, just to build somewhere else.

Ask yourself, if you were CEO, would you risk your company's image
to build in a ghetto/slum, bare field, devoid of infrastructure and services ?
Who would move there, relocate there, start a new life in that area ?

Allocation of capital is key to getting THE WHOLE city
back on its feet again with a cycle of investment backing, partnerships/growth

I actually like the Mayor, and Detroit. There are nice things existing.
What I don't buy into is the gambling, sports, entertainment fluff.

[bragaboutme]

I don't see what you're saying in comparison to other big cities. They don't have have any where near the amount of hate that Detroit has received from it's State and it's surrounding Metro. So let's not compair t's stay on topic

[313WX]

I don't see what you're saying in comparison to other big cities. They don't have have any where near the amount of hate that Detroit has received from it's State and it's surrounding Metro. So let's not compair t's stay on topic

That much you say [[the bolded) is true.

[bragaboutme]

[QUOTE=bragaboutme;556264]I don't see what you're saying in comparison to other big cities. They don't have have any where near the amount of hate that Detroit has received from it's State and it's surrounding Metro. So let's not compair, let's stay on topic. Detroit is seeing new construction beyond downtown. Behind the Pepsi factory there is new construction, not compared to other big cities. The casino, whether you hate them or not, bring in cash for the City. The budget has been balance and I right? Is the not a sign that the City is not dieing. Challenges are there as far as areas of the city with little to no homes for blocks at a time that's true. To say there is no growth, in which I think you mean the black community as a whole I think is false. To assume the an infux of other than black have to move in is the wrong way to shift the conversation. CEO's are taking a chance on the city, Dan Gilbert being one of the many. Also by Vandyke and Harper there is a huge warehouse being built as we speak. Listen it's a beautiful day today get out and actually see the new construction that you say doesn't exist.

[O3H]

Detroit is not making much money off Property Taxes
or the Income tax it imposes upon people working in the city.
It certainly isn't getting a big push from utilities like DWSD.

Reality - the city cannot support itself - it MUST be propped up or DIE

Psychologists call this temporal discounting.
Humans are predisposed to highly value pleasure today
and to deeply discount future pain, especially the more distant it is.
It's easy today to rationalize that future expense,
especially when you feel so assured that
new growth will make those future people better off.
-This thinking is how you end up with two dollars of public infrastructure
for every one dollar of private investment.
This is how you spend yourself into bankruptcy.

The 2018 Detroit
Ponzi scheme, new growth provides the illusion of prosperity.


A balanced budget, which means revenues balanced with expenditures.
This doesn't necessarily equate with a good budget. i.e FEW expenditures

If the gambling lifestyle slows down, and the state says "sorry"
-- then WHAT, how does Detroit make a go of things ????

[313WX]

HA!!! This is part of the reason why Detroit "continues to die."

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-es...nd-hotel-tower