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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    I and the vast majority of Detroiters weren't around in 1928 so your statment is pointless and a pretty feeble attempt at humor.

    As for Detroit taking on the bulk of the region's homeless, menatlly ill and impoverished impacts the bottom line for the city. It hurts neighborhoods, property values, safety and puts a large strain on city resources. The fact that we live in a region that is comfortable sticking the bulk of the mentally ill, and homeless in Detroit is an issue both socially and financially to the city. I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level but the SE Michigan region is and has been very happy with pushing those problems into Detroit and turning a bling eye that they exist. Out of sight, out of mind works for most of the region which is a big issue.
    No one "sticks" homeless people anywhere. They migrate along the path of least resistance, similar to water or electricity. Perhaps, now I am just saying perhaps, if the city of Detroit and the citizens of Detroit did more to make life less convenient for these homeless, they might leave. Just a guess.

    Maybe, just maybe, for starters, the city police could start clearing all the squatters from the tent cities that exist around town. That might get those folks to leave, or at least thin the herd. But then the usual whiners couldn't complain about how the region dumps on the blameless victim Detroit and her citizens, and that would leave most people on here nothing to post about. So, on second thought scratch that idea, let's just leave things at the status quo.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmich View Post
    No one "sticks" homeless people anywhere. They migrate along the path of least resistance, similar to water or electricity. Perhaps, now I am just saying perhaps, if the city of Detroit and the citizens of Detroit did more to make life less convenient for these homeless, they might leave. Just a guess.

    Maybe, just maybe, for starters, the city police could start clearing all the squatters from the tent cities that exist around town. That might get those folks to leave, or at least thin the herd. But then the usual whiners couldn't complain about how the region dumps on the blameless victim Detroit and her citizens, and that would leave most people on here nothing to post about. So, on second thought scratch that idea, let's just leave things at the status quo.
    Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

    Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

    You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

    You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

    Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

    You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

    You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.

    I call it preserving Detroit's Jewels! Why should Detroit surrender its services industry to the suburbs? They tried to steal Cobo already and they were defeated, why give them these precious jewels of Detroit?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmich View Post
    I call it preserving Detroit's Jewels! Why should Detroit surrender its services industry to the suburbs? They tried to steal Cobo already and they were defeated, why give them these precious jewels of Detroit?
    So when engaged in a conversation you can't contribute to you resort to this nonsense Pretty poor attempt at being witty.

  5. #30
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    I agree that many people don't want homeless people around, but I wouldn't think that the financial cost to the city is very high--what services are provided that are actually paid for by the city? This is an actual question, not rhetorical. There is some cost via EMS and police, but isn't the bulk of the social services stuff paid for by the state or the feds?

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

    Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

    You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

    You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.
    Those services are located in the city and the older suburbs for a reason, and it's not entirely due to the classism and racism you seem to be hinting at. You're making it sound like Oakland County opened a homeless shelter in the middle of Bloomfield Hills, then was forced to move it to Hazel Park to avoid a scandal. Services are located where they've been most needed, and continue to be needed. There's no reason for the county/state/whatever to create a service point from the ground up in a relatively affluent area.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    So when engaged in a conversation you can't contribute to you resort to this nonsense Pretty poor attempt at being witty.
    Because it's difficult to recognize much logic in your conspiracy theories and misaligned egalitarian ideals. Or maybe that you won't have a slice of humble pie and admit that you might be wrong.
    Last edited by ThaFuzz; August-28-09 at 10:29 AM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwilbert View Post
    I agree that many people don't want homeless people around, but I wouldn't think that the financial cost to the city is very high--what services are provided that are actually paid for by the city? This is an actual question, not rhetorical. There is some cost via EMS and police, but isn't the bulk of the social services stuff paid for by the state or the feds?

    Exactly Mwilbert, that is why the city considers them jewels and does not want to give them up, because they bring money into the city from the feds and state. Obviously this is beyond the ability of some on this board to understand. The reasons the homeless are in Detroit are a) no one else is, b) the city lets them stay. This could be acknowledged and discussed, but it is much easier to use the homeless as a tool to rail against the surrounding region and blame those regions for Detroit's problems.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaFuzz View Post
    Those services are located in the city and the older suburbs for a reason, and it's not entirely due to the classism and racism you seem to be hinting at. You're making it sound like Oakland County opened a homeless shelter in the middle of Bloomfield Hills, then was forced to move it to Hazel Park to avoid a scandal. Services are located where they've been most needed, and continue to be needed. There's no reason for the county/state/whatever to create a service point from the ground up in a relatively affluent area.

    You must be a racist, and live in the suburbs to say something like that.

  9. #34
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    I heard this but never really understood what was behind it: After the Water and Sewerage department, EMS brings in the most revenue. I don't get it.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by detmich View Post
    You must be a racist, and live in the suburbs to say something like that.
    I'm Shout® Advanced Stain-Lifting Foaming my KKK robes right now. I accidentally spilled poster paint all over them while I was making an "OBAMA IS A NAZI" sign for the latest town hall meeting.

  11. #36
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    annexation is impossible. however, consolidating the tri county area into one metropolitan government is not. there truly are economies of scale, issues that cross borders and should be dealt with in a more regional manner and so forth and so on. the issue for metro gov needs to be phrased in a different manner. the entire region is suffering. when you look at the cities that have gone to metro gov you see a pattern. toronto, indianapolis, charlotte, nashville, dallas, houston, oklahoma city, san antonio, louisville and now tuscon. some have combined city and county and some by their very large size area effectively become regional. they are all successful in varying degrees. these cities became successful when they went to metro gov. the adversarialism between city and suburb will not go away but when phrased in a way that addresses people concern about us falling any more will cause tehm to at least look at the possibility. i work in an area where people come from all over the metro region and have been fixated on metro gov for years. when you talk about how people would vote in their own city to join a regional gov and all the possible benefits people dont immediately discount you. they comment about tiaras and bankruptcy, disenfranchisement and a variety of issues but they are not comepletely closed to the idea.
    Last edited by szla; August-28-09 at 10:33 AM. Reason: spelling

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaFuzz View Post
    I'm Shout® Advanced Stain-Lifting Foaming my KKK robes right now. I accidentally spilled poster paint all over them while I was making an "OBAMA IS A NAZI" sign for the latest town hall meeting.
    Please add that he is not a citizen, and stop posting truthful statements concerning Detroit issues, it only hurts people's feelings.

  13. #38
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    szla: There are some interesting buttons on your keyboard labeled "shift" and "return." Just thought I'd bring it up.

  14. #39
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    Too bad Windsor, or Berlin, or Paris, or Helsinki, etc. cannot annex us.
    We could join the 21st century, and all or most of us would have access to health care!

    OK, folks, it's just an observation. A random thought.
    Let the flaming and hysterical right wing shouting begin.....
    Last edited by Bobl; August-28-09 at 10:48 AM.

  15. #40
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    "I call it preserving Detroit's Jewels!"

    Detroit was kicked in the jewels years ago.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by davewindsor View Post
    If the problem with Detroit's declining population is people moving to the burbs, then why can't the City of Detroit start annexing neighbouring cities to regain its population and tax base? Detroit has only 138 square miles of land, while Chicago has 228 square miles, Toronto has 243 square miles and New York City has 305 square miles.

    In 1996, the Provincial Government amalgamated the City of Toronto with the surrounding municipalities of East York, Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough and York to create a new City of Toronto. Streamlining also saved $138 million a year.

    Why can't the same thing be done with the City of Detroit?
    Many of the cities surrounding Detroit are also experiencing problems with declining population and revenue.

    Taking over cities around Detroit and adding them to itself will not improve the current situation.

  17. #42
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    Other neighboring suburbs incorporate to their own cities to prevent Detroit annexation:

    1. To prevent further annexation to Detroit, what's left of Dearborn TWP. and Village of Fordson had been annexed to City of Dearborn. Also the annexation is a prevent Henry Ford's Detroit annexation attacks to have his proposed Rouge Plant to be built near the Rouge River.

    2. Detroit used to owned a small part of lower rouge Warrendale valley area from Ann ArborTrail to Telegraph and Ford Road just over 90 years ago, but gave it up to Dearborn Heights.

    3. The Village of Highland Park and theVillage of Hamtramck quickly incorporated into their own cities to prevent Detroit annexation proposals.

    4. The Township of Grosse Pointe ( a big piece of it ) was annexed to Detroit. What's left of Grosse Pointe TWP. become and Lochmoor and than Gratiot TWP. Later Gratiot TWP become a the City of Harper Woods to prevent annexation to Detroit. Other weathly real estate owners who lived on the other side of Mack and Alter Rd. incorporate their own neighborhood cities and became Grosse Pointe Park, Grosse Pointe, Grosse Pointe Farms, Grosse Pointe Woods and Grosse Pointe Shores.

    5. Detroit annexed the a small piece of Ecorse TWP in 1917. The residents quickly of the big piece of Ecorse TWP. decided to break up and incorporate to their own villages of River Rouge later become a city, Lincoln Park from a village to city, Melvindale, Allen Park (in which it broke away from Lincoln Park) Southgate to prevent annexation to Lincoln Park. The southern portion of River Rouge quickly broke away and become Ecorse.

    Detroit annexed Redford TWP. only 6 x 4/12 to 5/12 miles from Five Points to West Parkway Rd. pass Rouge River in 1929 for the township was dirt poor and bankrupt. What's left of 6 x 3 1/2 to 1 1/2 mile area become The Charter Township Redford. Redford TWP. can't be incorporated to a village or city because real estate developers who created those cookie cutter ranches and bungalows all over must comply with the state boundry commission guidelines to their own have water and sewage treatement in which 'they' can't. Today Redford TWP. is still in danger of being annexed to Detroit, Livonia, Southfield or Dearborn Heights anytime if the real estate developers get their way. The best Redford TWP. can do is have their neighborhood dirt roads paved with asphalt or concrete to comply with SBC requirements to prevent annexation.
    Last edited by Danny; August-28-09 at 11:01 AM.

  18. #43
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    In 1920, they thought Detroit would expand, even beyond Wayne County, to become a super-city like New York.

    By 1930, the laws had changed, and Detroit was blocked anyway: By Dearborn along Michigan Avenue, by Ferndale along Woodward Avenue, and by East Detroit along Gratiot Avenue.

  19. #44
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    That's right Detroitnerd,

    Who want to play higher property tax rates for a proposed super metropolis of Detroit. I don't.

  20. #45
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    I don't care how much taxes I pay, as long as I have a subway under Caniff.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by detmich View Post
    Exactly Mwilbert, that is why the city considers them jewels and does not want to give them up, because they bring money into the city from the feds and state. Obviously this is beyond the ability of some on this board to understand. The reasons the homeless are in Detroit are a) no one else is, b) the city lets them stay. This could be acknowledged and discussed, but it is much easier to use the homeless as a tool to rail against the surrounding region and blame those regions for Detroit's problems.
    The behavior of homeless people and birds has a lot in common.

    If you put out birdseed, you'll have a yard full of birds. What happens if you don't fill it one day? Do you wake up to dead birds all over? No, they simply go to where the food is.

    Close the feeding stations in the city, and they would migrate out by themselves.

  22. #47
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    What I see on this thread are some pretty decent ideas. Even the more far reaching ones have merit. When it comes down to it, why is Detroit run by a bunch of corrupt money grabbers while there are so many even in this forum who have great solutions . If Detroit is going to climb out of it's depression, it's corrupt leaders are the first ones that have to go.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCP-001 View Post
    Many of the cities surrounding Detroit are also experiencing problems with declining population and revenue.

    Taking over cities around Detroit and adding them to itself will not improve the current situation.
    And what would stop people from just moving further away, just like they did when they left Detroit in the first place.

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpg View Post
    And what would stop people from just moving further away, just like they did when they left Detroit in the first place.
    Nothing.

    But people being annexed by Detroit without their express permission will only give those people yet another reason to move.

    Possibly even out of Michigan altogether.

    Which again, puts you back to where you started.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt1 View Post
    I and the vast majority of Detroiters weren't around in 1928 so your statment is pointless and a pretty feeble attempt at humor.

    As for Detroit taking on the bulk of the region's homeless, menatlly ill and impoverished impacts the bottom line for the city. It hurts neighborhoods, property values, safety and puts a large strain on city resources. The fact that we live in a region that is comfortable sticking the bulk of the mentally ill, and homeless in Detroit is an issue both socially and financially to the city. I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level but the SE Michigan region is and has been very happy with pushing those problems into Detroit and turning a bling eye that they exist. Out of sight, out of mind works for most of the region which is a big issue.
    I've seen plenty of pointless comments here lately, you don't seem to have a problem with those, I guess. It's a valid point. Point of view changes. Once it was desirable to be part of Detroit, now, not so much.

    I wonder if the homeless weren't a problem downtown that this topic would even be discussed. I hear mostly bitching about Cass Park and panhandlers downtown. If they were elsewhere, in a suburb, probably not a peep.

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