Why can't Detroit annex neighbouring cities to regain its population?

[jt1]

Certain townships actually wanted to and voted for annexation to Detroit after 1928, but were voted down by Detroiters. You had your chance.

How does having all these homeless, mentally ill and poor people influence the bottom line for Detroit? Sounds like a state problem to me.

I and the vast majority of Detroiters weren't around in 1928 so your statment is pointless and a pretty feeble attempt at humor.

As for Detroit taking on the bulk of the region's homeless, menatlly ill and impoverished impacts the bottom line for the city. It hurts neighborhoods, property values, safety and puts a large strain on city resources. The fact that we live in a region that is comfortable sticking the bulk of the mentally ill, and homeless in Detroit is an issue both socially and financially to the city. I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level but the SE Michigan region is and has been very happy with pushing those problems into Detroit and turning a bling eye that they exist. Out of sight, out of mind works for most of the region which is a big issue.

[detmich]

I and the vast majority of Detroiters weren't around in 1928 so your statment is pointless and a pretty feeble attempt at humor.

As for Detroit taking on the bulk of the region's homeless, menatlly ill and impoverished impacts the bottom line for the city. It hurts neighborhoods, property values, safety and puts a large strain on city resources. The fact that we live in a region that is comfortable sticking the bulk of the mentally ill, and homeless in Detroit is an issue both socially and financially to the city. I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level but the SE Michigan region is and has been very happy with pushing those problems into Detroit and turning a bling eye that they exist. Out of sight, out of mind works for most of the region which is a big issue.

No one "sticks" homeless people anywhere. They migrate along the path of least resistance, similar to water or electricity. Perhaps, now I am just saying perhaps, if the city of Detroit and the citizens of Detroit did more to make life less convenient for these homeless, they might leave. Just a guess.

Maybe, just maybe, for starters, the city police could start clearing all the squatters from the tent cities that exist around town. That might get those folks to leave, or at least thin the herd. But then the usual whiners couldn't complain about how the region dumps on the blameless victim Detroit and her citizens, and that would leave most people on here nothing to post about. So, on second thought scratch that idea, let's just leave things at the status quo.

[jt1]

No one "sticks" homeless people anywhere. They migrate along the path of least resistance, similar to water or electricity. Perhaps, now I am just saying perhaps, if the city of Detroit and the citizens of Detroit did more to make life less convenient for these homeless, they might leave. Just a guess.

Maybe, just maybe, for starters, the city police could start clearing all the squatters from the tent cities that exist around town. That might get those folks to leave, or at least thin the herd. But then the usual whiners couldn't complain about how the region dumps on the blameless victim Detroit and her citizens, and that would leave most people on here nothing to post about. So, on second thought scratch that idea, let's just leave things at the status quo.

Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.

[detmich]

Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.

I call it preserving Detroit's Jewels! Why should Detroit surrender its services industry to the suburbs? They tried to steal Cobo already and they were defeated, why give them these precious jewels of Detroit?

[jt1]

I call it preserving Detroit's Jewels! Why should Detroit surrender its services industry to the suburbs? They tried to steal Cobo already and they were defeated, why give them these precious jewels of Detroit?

So when engaged in a conversation you can't contribute to you resort to this nonsense Pretty poor attempt at being witty.

[Danny]

Other neighboring suburbs incorporate to their own cities to prevent Detroit annexation:

1. To prevent further annexation to Detroit, what's left of Dearborn TWP. and Village of Fordson had been annexed to City of Dearborn. Also the annexation is a prevent Henry Ford's Detroit annexation attacks to have his proposed Rouge Plant to be built near the Rouge River.

2. Detroit used to owned a small part of lower rouge Warrendale valley area from Ann ArborTrail to Telegraph and Ford Road just over 90 years ago, but gave it up to Dearborn Heights.

3. The Village of Highland Park and theVillage of Hamtramck quickly incorporated into their own cities to prevent Detroit annexation proposals.

4. The Township of Grosse Pointe [[ a big piece of it ) was annexed to Detroit. What's left of Grosse Pointe TWP. become and Lochmoor and than Gratiot TWP. Later Gratiot TWP become a the City of Harper Woods to prevent annexation to Detroit. Other weathly real estate owners who lived on the other side of Mack and Alter Rd. incorporate their own neighborhood cities and became Grosse Pointe Park, Grosse Pointe, Grosse Pointe Farms, Grosse Pointe Woods and Grosse Pointe Shores.

5. Detroit annexed the a small piece of Ecorse TWP in 1917. The residents quickly of the big piece of Ecorse TWP. decided to break up and incorporate to their own villages of River Rouge later become a city, Lincoln Park from a village to city, Melvindale, Allen Park [[in which it broke away from Lincoln Park) Southgate to prevent annexation to Lincoln Park. The southern portion of River Rouge quickly broke away and become Ecorse.

Detroit annexed Redford TWP. only 6 x 4/12 to 5/12 miles from Five Points to West Parkway Rd. pass Rouge River in 1929 for the township was dirt poor and bankrupt. What's left of 6 x 3 1/2 to 1 1/2 mile area become The Charter Township Redford. Redford TWP. can't be incorporated to a village or city because real estate developers who created those cookie cutter ranches and bungalows all over must comply with the state boundry commission guidelines to their own have water and sewage treatement in which 'they' can't. Today Redford TWP. is still in danger of being annexed to Detroit, Livonia, Southfield or Dearborn Heights anytime if the real estate developers get their way. The best Redford TWP. can do is have their neighborhood dirt roads paved with asphalt or concrete to comply with SBC requirements to prevent annexation.

[Detroitnerd]

In 1920, they thought Detroit would expand, even beyond Wayne County, to become a super-city like New York.

By 1930, the laws had changed, and Detroit was blocked anyway: By Dearborn along Michigan Avenue, by Ferndale along Woodward Avenue, and by East Detroit along Gratiot Avenue.

[Danny]

That's right Detroitnerd,

Who want to play higher property tax rates for a proposed super metropolis of Detroit. I don't.

[ThaFuzz]

Homeless often go to where the services are. How many communities fought every service tooth and nail to keep 'them' out of their community.

Would you support Detroit closing the NSOs, shelters, etc? Would you support these services being distributed evenly across the region. It is not a matter of whining but a matter that homeless and menatlly ill are placed and often migrate to locations near the services offered. Those services are disproportionately in the city.

You can call it whining if you would like but it is simply realism. Other communities have the resources to fight services entering their community. It is not just an issue with Detroit but the region as a whole. Macommb County and Oakland County locate services in their older , poorer communities. The argument is that the services should be near those that need the help but the reality is the services prevent those that need help from leaving the poorest communities.

You can call it whining, I call it addressing reality so I'm guessing you are unwilling to discuss it.

Those services are located in the city and the older suburbs for a reason, and it's not entirely due to the classism and racism you seem to be hinting at. You're making it sound like Oakland County opened a homeless shelter in the middle of Bloomfield Hills, then was forced to move it to Hazel Park to avoid a scandal. Services are located where they've been most needed, and continue to be needed. There's no reason for the county/state/whatever to create a service point from the ground up in a relatively affluent area.

So when engaged in a conversation you can't contribute to you resort to this nonsense Pretty poor attempt at being witty.

Because it's difficult to recognize much logic in your conspiracy theories and misaligned egalitarian ideals. Or maybe that you won't have a slice of humble pie and admit that you might be wrong.

[detmich]

Those services are located in the city and the older suburbs for a reason, and it's not entirely due to the classism and racism you seem to be hinting at. You're making it sound like Oakland County opened a homeless shelter in the middle of Bloomfield Hills, then was forced to move it to Hazel Park to avoid a scandal. Services are located where they've been most needed, and continue to be needed. There's no reason for the county/state/whatever to create a service point from the ground up in a relatively affluent area.

You must be a racist, and live in the suburbs to say something like that.

[Detroitnerd]

I heard this but never really understood what was behind it: After the Water and Sewerage department, EMS brings in the most revenue. I don't get it.

[ThaFuzz]

You must be a racist, and live in the suburbs to say something like that.

I'm Shout® Advanced Stain-Lifting Foaming my KKK robes right now. I accidentally spilled poster paint all over them while I was making an "OBAMA IS A NAZI" sign for the latest town hall meeting.

[detmich]

I'm Shout® Advanced Stain-Lifting Foaming my KKK robes right now. I accidentally spilled poster paint all over them while I was making an "OBAMA IS A NAZI" sign for the latest town hall meeting.

Please add that he is not a citizen, and stop posting truthful statements concerning Detroit issues, it only hurts people's feelings.

[Stosh]

I and the vast majority of Detroiters weren't around in 1928 so your statment is pointless and a pretty feeble attempt at humor.

As for Detroit taking on the bulk of the region's homeless, menatlly ill and impoverished impacts the bottom line for the city. It hurts neighborhoods, property values, safety and puts a large strain on city resources. The fact that we live in a region that is comfortable sticking the bulk of the mentally ill, and homeless in Detroit is an issue both socially and financially to the city. I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed at the state level but the SE Michigan region is and has been very happy with pushing those problems into Detroit and turning a bling eye that they exist. Out of sight, out of mind works for most of the region which is a big issue.

I've seen plenty of pointless comments here lately, you don't seem to have a problem with those, I guess. It's a valid point. Point of view changes. Once it was desirable to be part of Detroit, now, not so much.

I wonder if the homeless weren't a problem downtown that this topic would even be discussed. I hear mostly bitching about Cass Park and panhandlers downtown. If they were elsewhere, in a suburb, probably not a peep.

[stasu1213]

I think the idea of giving back old redford to redford and parts of the eastside to grosse pointe and harper woods would be a good for cutting down detroit's deficet. It would be hard to get the renters out of those homes in the areas giving back to their rightful owners. It would save detroit a lot of dough. As far as the mentally ill, drug addicts and aggresive panhandlers are concern; take them to the countryside. Building a rehabilitation community with agriculture and let them learn how to plant and grow food. Have counselors and mental health doctors there to see after them and help bring them back to reality again. Also make them clean up their own apartment, small home or whatever they would be living at in the countryside. Maybe they would be right to comeback into the meanstream. Many people whom are homeless doesn't fit into this category and shouldn't be shipped out there. Just the ones who fit under the categories above

[tangerine]

Talk about rewarding failure. I think Detroit should be federalized as its problems are too great for the State to handle let alone the adjacent counties.

[professorscott]

This is an interesting discussion but there is an air of unreality about it.

I have seen metropolitan style government in other places, and no doubt it has its benefits. However, the Detroit area has precisely as much chance of becoming a unigovernment metro region as I have of becoming Pope.

Look, so many things are working against it: Michigan's unflagging insistence on home rule, the carcinogenic racism that continues to pile-drive our economy and liveliness, the institutionalized corruption of so many municipal agencies. Imagine someone in Livonia or Rochester Hills waking up and finding that there was to be a tri-county municipal government! To paraphrase other posts, they would leave scorch marks on the pavement on their way to One Million Mile Road.

Since you can't force people to live in your Unigoverned Greater Metro Detroit Regional Thingy, and there's not exactly a huge supply of jobs keeping people here, such a thing [[if it were even possible, which it's not) would just drive more people to move to Atlanta or Indianapolis or San Diego or Vancouver or wherever the hell everybody is moving to nowadays.

If I'm wrong, no prob; come visit me in the Vatican and we'll do lunch.

The Prof.

[davewindsor]

Imagine someone in Livonia or Rochester Hills waking up and finding that there was to be a tri-county municipal government! To paraphrase other posts, they would leave scorch marks on the pavement on their way to One Million Mile Road.

Why?

And, if not a tri-county unigovernment, why not consolidate Wayne County with Detroit to rename Wayne County the new City of Detroit like they did with Louisville, Kentucky? You'd now have a city with 2 million people like it was back in the 50s and there's gotta be significant tax savings in a Wayne County-Detroit consolidation. I look at the Wayne County website and see a Wayne County Sheriff's Department that handles narcotics enforcement in the City of Detroit and then there's a Detroit Police Narcotics Unit. There's a Wayne County Parks and Rec Dept. and a Detroit Rec Department. There's gotta be significant tax dollar savings by consolidating all those departments into one entity.

[crawford]

Why?.

Are you serious? There was a huge drop in inner suburban property values in the 1970's following court-ordered busing. Once the busing was overturned on appeal, the property values rose again.

Can you imagine what would have happened if the ruling were upheld?

Yes, correlation does not imply causation, but it's generally agreed that [[given the fact that the only municipalities which experienced property value drops were within the proposed metropolitan school district) that what was perceived as the threat of metro-wide ghetto schools was enough to send people to other communities.

And, if not a tri-county unigovernment, why not consolidate Wayne County with Detroit to rename Wayne County the new City of Detroit like they did with Louisville, Kentucky? .

This would be even worse, because instead of forcing people to move from generally desirable areas like Oakland County, you would be inviting people to move from generally undesirable areas in Wayne County.

And it's much easier to abandon Wayne County than abandon the entire tri-county area.

[davewindsor]

Are you serious? There was a huge drop in inner suburban property values in the 1970's following court-ordered busing. Once the busing was overturned on appeal, the property values rose again.

Can you imagine what would have happened if the ruling were upheld?

Yes, correlation does not imply causation, but it's generally agreed that [[given the fact that the only municipalities which experienced property value drops were within the proposed metropolitan school district) that what was perceived as the threat of metro-wide ghetto schools was enough to send people to other communities.

Forced bus service is gonna cause significant declines in property values?! Come on! Where do you pull this stuff from?

This would be even worse, because instead of forcing people to move from generally desirable areas like Oakland County, you would be inviting people to move from generally undesirable areas in Wayne County.

And it's much easier to abandon Wayne County than abandon the entire tri-county area.

Consolidating Detroit with Wayne County is gonna cause everybody to leave Dearborn and Grossee Pointe? Give me a break! How do you figure? There's no Berlin Wall. If they were gonna move, they'd have moved long ago.