Quo Vadis Marquees Removed. Full Demolition Next?

DetroitDad · August-27-09, 07:39 PM

The Quo Vadis was held by slum lords for the longest time, as the owners moved into a nice new building [[Showcase Cinema) right down the street, now also abandoned. The owners were asking some five million dollars back in 2005. The price included the adjacent parking lot as well as a unusable lot behind the Toys R Us. A real estate agent from Grubb and Ellis told me straight out that they clearly didn't plan on selling it.

As I understand, the Quo Vadis was built as part of a drive in theater complex. You could eat in the golden crown top while watching a movie out the windows, and listening to speakers at each table. There may still be some remnants of that complex in the overgrown lot behind the Pizza Hut.

I drove through this area just yesterday, and was sad to see the iconic sign gone. I was very surprised how many abandoned buildings and vacancies line Wayne Road. It's very unfortunate what is happening in the inner suburbs, but I guess it was obvious this was coming. I hear Westland Mall is doing well at least.

Lorax · August-27-09, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "As I mentioned above, the high-quality blue/gold glass mosaics would cost a quarter million bucks today. That's just for starters. The massing of glass with ramping and cantilevered staircases, the sunken lobby with carrera marble, the modernist looped railings, the curved rusticated marble fireplace wall."

Sounds like a great place to shoot a 60's era porn flick. I'll dust off the merkin and be right over. Carrera marble huh? Should be good for the bulldozer tracks to grab hold of during the demolition.

Lorax sits in some apartment Florida making decisions about this area. Lorax, we have an abundance of empty structures awaiting your picket sign. That theater is nothing but an eyesore and is driving property values down in that area, the whole area actually. As one other posted noted: "In a sea of broken concrete" sums it up nicely. If it is such a hot real estate item why has it been empty for five years? I respect your sentiment, but tear that schitt down.

The only "sea of broken concrete" is between your ears.

Yes, I'm sitting here, taking in the ocean breezes from my lofty high-rise perch, Lord Lorax over all I survey, postulating on the peons back home. Yeah, you've got it all down, Pat.

You are sadly, yet again, missing the larger point. You're the type that would destroy an asset for no other reason than you don't like it.

I'm sure you were cheerleading to "tear the schitt down" on the Book Cadillac thread, too. Looks like someone else considered that building an asset as opposed to a vacant eyesore.

And what do you, in all your infinite wisdom propose replacing the QV with? A Tiffany's? A Santiago Calatrava designed highrise? Anything short of that will not be an improvement over what's there.

**Sstashmoo** · August-27-09, 08:20 PM

Quote: "And what do you, in all your infinite wisdom propose replacing the QV with? A Tiffany's? A Santiago Calatrava designed highrise? Anything short of that will not be an improvement over what's there."

We're talking about a vacant property next to McDonalds. Some of you people live in some parallel universe. This is Wayne road in Westland, Not Rodeo drive. Not too far from there and not many years ago they had a restaurant with a jackass on the roof eating a hamburger. I'm just curious, In between the Carrera simulated marble and the cantilevered-rustification, did you notice any corinthian leather? And did you exhaust your tacky cliche architectural lexicon on your post #22? Do you have more?

ziggyselbin · August-27-09, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "And what do you, in all your infinite wisdom propose replacing the QV with? A Tiffany's? A Santiago Calatrava designed highrise? Anything short of that will not be an improvement over what's there."

We're talking about a vacant property next to McDonalds. Some of you people live in some parallel universe. This is Wayne road in Westland, Not Rodeo drive. Not too far from there and not many years ago they had a restaurant with a jackass on the roof eating a hamburger. I'm just curious, In between the Carrera simulated marble and the cantilevered-rustification, did you notice any corinthian leather? And did you exhaust your tacky cliche architectural lexicon on your post #22? Do you have more?

Poor Satashmoo too silly and close minded to know how foolish he/she appears.

**reddog289** · August-27-09, 08:56 PM

While reading this I thought, Damn something in Westland that the preservationalist can fight over.I myself never knew or cared who designed the Que Vadis.But since that place closed I found out. As with most of the buildings in this area that people want to save it comes down to the almighty dollar.While I myself have enjoyed many a movie at the Que Vadis, I can see the writing on the wall. What once was part of a chain of family run theateres and drive ins is pretty much gonna be dust.
As I myself too have lived in the area, I can only think of one movie house left from when I was a teen. And I myself am only 40.I am surprised that the place has stayed up this long.If and when it does go, It will be another place of my youth gone. Then I can be like my folks and tell stories about that and this was here and there and what a great place this was. But that is the way it is like it or not.

Lorax · August-27-09, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "And what do you, in all your infinite wisdom propose replacing the QV with? A Tiffany's? A Santiago Calatrava designed highrise? Anything short of that will not be an improvement over what's there."

We're talking about a vacant property next to McDonalds. Some of you people live in some parallel universe. This is Wayne road in Westland, Not Rodeo drive. Not too far from there and not many years ago they had a restaurant with a jackass on the roof eating a hamburger. I'm just curious, In between the Carrera simulated marble and the cantilevered-rustification, did you notice any corinthian leather? And did you exhaust your tacky cliche architectural lexicon on your post #22? Do you have more?

Satire is completely lost on you, Sis.

Funny post, though.

I'm not the one living in the parallel universe- trust me, there is nothing parallel about living in two completely non-parallel places, such as I do.

That said, I didn't notice any Corinthian leather. What I did notice, was how those who live around something constantly see only what is obvious, which I can understand, since I probably do the same here in Miami with regard to our local architecture.

What the QV represents is a stand-out structure among a mass of banal, look-alike boxes built by a developer or builder. The QV was built by a great architect- and admittedly it's not his greatest work, it is evocative of not only his vision, but of a period in time that will never happen again.

Not recognizing it as an asset rather than a liability is the failing of the powers that be, and those who drive by staring straight ahead, unaware of what is around them. How would this building look completely restored, lit up at night, well landscaped and used? Pretty terrific.

As I said in a previous thread on Eastland Center, if it hadn't been butchered by crappy, low quality modernizations over the years, people would travel from around the world to see a perfectly intact Eastland Center, as a glowing example of Mid Century Modern architecture, by yet another great architect, Victor Gruen.

If Cranbrook had been cut up, sculptures taken away, houses or auto-body shops built on it's grounds, would anyone consider it great? Or travel to see it? No.

Europe would be the same way. If France dismantled the Eiffel Tower after the 1889 World's Fair, which was going to happen, by the way, it would never have become the symbol of France.

If Chicago hadn't dismantled the White City after the Columbian World's Exposition in 1893, it would have been the centerpiece from which Chicago would have grown out of, and would be visited by tourist as much as the Eiffel Tower or Great Wall of China are today.

Is the QV in league with any of this, of course not, though you are about to make that "parallel" which is disingenuous for you to assume, of course I know the difference.

But Westland has no Eiffel Tower, but what it does have, is a period, site-specific theatre designed by a world famous architect that is indeed the most outstanding of all the buildings in this town of tawdry commercialism and lackluster architecture. What sense does it make to erase it in favor of what? A strip mall or cinder block barn that will be closed with a year or two?

Sorry, but you don't waste quality buildings that have every possibility of being adapatively reused, when what you are considering replacing it with is not a Tiffany's or a Calatrava designed skyscraper.

Best and highest use, not the lowest common denominator.

Oh, and the carrera marble is genuine, not simulated, the fireplace worked, and there is nothing "rusticated" about these cantilevered staircases.

Glad you like my writing style.

Could it be you identify with the jackass eating the hamburger?

Sorry, couldn't resist!!

**Sstashmoo** · August-27-09, 09:47 PM

Quote: "Poor Satashmoo too silly and close minded to know how foolish he/she appears."

Foolish how? It's 2009. Foolish is trying to live in the past. The theater went teats up, it's gone and it isn't coming back. As a wise poster on this forum says "You can't go back". It's a private property, if you really want to save it, buy it.

If you really want to dress the place up, have Lorax tow her "fountain" over there, I'm sure it's on wheels.

Lorax · August-27-09, 10:10 PM

Sorry, no can do. No wheels.

I'm sending along a photo of the fountain for your enjoyment, since you covet it so. I hope you're jealous!

http://www.seijilimo.com/images/pic_fountains.gif

**Lowell** · August-27-09, 10:44 PM

The QV seems like a love it or hate it issue with little gray space in between.

I'm surprised at the amount of passion that the QV inspires although I find some of the interpersonal digs between those whose disagree excessive. Hey just because you disagree doesn't make the other person an idiot.

I attended the QV a couple times in the distant past and have little recollection of it being anything special; but then one is in and out in the night.

In its solemn abandonment with its marquees almost mockingly shouting out in gigantic letters the ironic "Where are you going?" in a language I am sure few understood, it cast its spell and got me to look closely at it and see its unique qualities.

I have been gathering shots for upcoming webisode, sort of, "Fabulous Ruins of Livonia" around subject of vacant and distressed commercial properties of inner ring suburbs when I got fixated on this gem amidst the big box throw aways. Here was a stunning building smack in the middle of it, asking the BIG painful question.

I still not sure if I like it from my own aesthetic POV, but I always found it visually compelling, something that dominated the setting and something without which that stretch of Wayne Road is now just another tired nondescript stretch of fading strip malls.

Our inner rings communities are in deepening crisis. The life, youth, money and vigor they once drew out of Detroit and prospered from, are now being sucked out of them by the sprawl edge. Their populations are aging and declining, their tax base is being undermined while their infrastructure, all shiny and new back then, is in increasing need of repair.

While the core of Westland Center seems to be holding its own, the situation the belt of strip malls and big box store that it spawned on its periphery is chilling. Directly behind the QV is this shell.

Since many of you appear informed on the area can anyone ID what it was.

**Lowell** · August-27-09, 11:10 PM

And another angle:

And while we're on the topic how about the ID of this vacant restaurant on Warren?

... and this supermarket[?] further west on Warren.

**Lowell** · August-27-09, 11:15 PM

Also may I assume from the above discussion that building at Central City and Wayne was the Denny's? This also disappeared during the same interim in which the Quo Vadis marquees fell.

Now being replaced by Sonic "America's Drive-In"? Ironic on the word drive-in is reappearing. It is so 50's - 60's, like the bygone era in which Westland rose.

**GRALR** · August-27-09, 11:40 PM

I watched as the urban fabric in Los Angeles was dismantled and replaced. We lost a vast amount of architecture to progress. The buildings that were torn down contributed to a quality of life that is really gone. Drive in restaurants, theatres, quaint neighborhood villages, homes to apartments, on and on ........ When the buildings that make a certain quality of life possible are torn down what replaces it decides the direction of the surrounding community for years to come.

When quality buildings are destroyed they will most likely never be replaced. Take the Lafayette
building downtown. It is part of the downtown fabric, when it is gone a very integral piece of downtown will be gone forever. It makes no sense to pay millions to destroy it when mothballing it is a better alternative. The future will be different but if there is no Detroit left to restore.

Hire a dictator who can has common sense and a little bit of knowledge.

**Gistok** · August-28-09, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by 56packman

The Quo Vadis is about the age that the great movie palaces were when they met the wrecking ball, the Hollywood in Detroit, the Roxy and Paramount in new york, the Paradise in Chicago, the Fox in San Francisco. Movie theaters are inviting targets for demolition and redevelopment because of their large footprint, easier to purchase in cities than buying up multiple commercail structures to assemble an equal sized footprint.
The Quo Vadis was somewhat unique in design, but it all comes down to commercial viability. The movie palaces came down because there were a lot of them and the land underneith them became more valuable than the operation of the theatre. The Roxy and Paramount were turning a profit at the end of their life, but an office building could make more.
In this economy I don't know what would go there.
I'm sure Gistok can extoll on this subject.

Preservation Wayne's former Executive Director Katherine Clarkson once said... "at some point in the future we're going to have to save at least one of those cookie cutter mall theatres and put it on a historic preservation list."

Well I guess maybe that time has come...

I have to say that as an eastsider, I've never even driven past the Quo Vadis, let alone been inside. And from the street it doesn't look like much. But upon Lowell's closer inspection, it does look like it was made of some quality materials.

I too am not a big fan of a lot of modern architecture. But I do understand that just because something isn't currently "in vogue"... that we shouldn't save some of the best of that era.

One case in point is the Marcel Breuer designed Grosse Pointe Library on Kercheval behind Grosse Pointe South High School. I've driven past it a hundred times, and never gave it a second glance... nor appreciated it as a work by a notable architect. It just didn't give me the "wow" factor that many older structures would give off. The Grosse Pointe Library folks were going to expand it and obliterate the Breuer exterior. It then became a "cause celebre"... and now will be saved as is [[with an expansion that is sensitive to the original structure).

Although Minoru Yamasaki is now somewhat more famous as the designer of the ill fated World Trade Center, his work is IMHO underappreciated. Some of his best work is in Detroit [[downtown and WSU) and Oakland County. I was unaware that he designed the Quo Vadis... due in great part to the fact that I am not familiar with his architectural portfolio.

It would be interesting to know how many theatres he designed [[was it just one like with Albert Kahn's National Theatre on Monroe?).

Based on the comments of a few here who have been there, it sounds like the inside was made of quality material and design. I guess if we have to save a multiplex theatre, it might as well be this one.

As 56packman pointed out... theatres took up a big footprint. And often they weren't easy candidates for adaptive reuse [[except performing arts venues). That explains why so many old [[and even new) theatres have been pounded to rubble.

Maybe someone who is interested in saving it should contact the National Trust, so they can put it on their 11 Most Endangered List. Although that's not always a guarantee... since 2 of the 3 buildings on that list that were eventually razed were right here in Detroit [[Madison-Lenox and Tiger Stadium).

But I think that someone interested in saving this theatre should do some research, and find out if Yamasaki designed other theatres.

As someone pointed out... this may be the most architecturally significant building in Westland... and maybe the city doesn't even know it?

**ThaFuzz** · August-28-09, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by ziggyselbin

Poor Satashmoo too silly and close minded to know how foolish he/she appears.

Yes, because your comparison between eugenics and the belief that the building is ugly was the height of gravitas and open-mindedness.

Lorax · August-28-09, 08:37 AM

Lowell, thanks for posting the other vacant building shots, since this only drives home the importance of wondering why the QV is being targeted when so much more modern, better condition structures are available for development.

The rush to level buildings that represent the best of a locality's architecture is insane using this metric.

The vacant restaurant shot looks like a Macaroni Grill- ours here in Miami looks about the same, and is also gone- replaced by a front-business/restaruant which looks to be on it's last legs as well.

**Catman** · August-28-09, 08:40 AM

I grew up in Westland. Lived there when it was Nankin Township, then Westland and moved on to college in 1979. Moved out of state in 1987. The last time I was in Westland was 2004 and it didn't look bad then. But after reading the previous posts, Westland has gone to hell in just 5 years? Other than the original parts of Westland Mall and the City Hall, QV does have distinctive design of a better long-gone time of a bright future. Of all of the non-descript buildings that surround QV, why demo QV? It's one of a kind!

With the way how Detroit and all the surrounding suburbs are going, why don't we just tear down all buildings built in the past 50 years and return to farmland? Revert back to townships and villages. We all had a great time the past 100 years riding the automotive wave. Let Detroit go back to making stoves, cigars, and whathaveyou and let the rest of the Metro area return to sleepy country.

"There once upon a time was a City named Westland. They were proud to have turned back the evil Livonians who wanted to take their land upon which a mighty mall was built. They prospered and reached 100,000 in population! But bad times came. One by one, stores and businesses closed. One day, in act of economic desperation, they killed their prized building, the Quo Vadis. The days turned cold and the skies darkened and from then on, Westland was no more. This marker marks the spot in the middle of this vast farm field where the QV, Wayne and Warren Roads, and the Westland Mall once stood. Dedicated on this day September 11, 2021."

**Sstashmoo** · August-28-09, 08:45 AM

Quote: "Yes, because your comparison between eugenics and the belief that the building is ugly was the height of gravitas and open-mindedness."

It really is/was. I'm not close-minded to cling to some mediocre physical structure that is/was really just someone's business. And for the sake of some memory and at the cost of progress to justify it's preservation. You seen a few movies there and enjoyed yourself? Great! Hang on to those memories. If we saved every building on that criteria...

**Danny** · August-28-09, 08:49 AM

I used to went to the Denny's restuarant on the Wayne and Central City Drive back in the 1980s where Quo Vadis is running and lots of big box stores were booming Now its gone along with other big box chains. The stores surrounding Westland Mall just sit empty for more the 10 years while the mall is still booming. Westland Mall has won customer attendance that ever. Mr. Boileau photos proves the TRUE fact of capitalism. COMPETE OR DIE!

Folks in the suburbs didn't know what hit them. Greyfields are popping up just the same as Detroit ghettohoods. Now the will see what a sudden eyesore can do their neighborhood.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Let's hope not some squatter break in some vacant suburban big box store and burn it down.

In memoriam: Neda Soltani

**GREENTROIT** · August-28-09, 09:34 AM

@ Lowell in regards to ID'ing the buildings.

In Order:
Michael's Arts & Crafts [[closed this year)
Carino's Italian Grill [[I think)
Value City Department Store
Value City Furniture
Denny's [[demo'd and a Sonic is being built)

**xD_Brklyn** · August-28-09, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by reddog289

While reading this I thought, Damn something in Westland that the preservationalist can fight over.I myself never knew or cared who designed the Que Vadis.But since that place closed I found out. As with most of the buildings in this area that people want to save it comes down to the almighty dollar.While I myself have enjoyed many a movie at the Que Vadis, I can see the writing on the wall. What once was part of a chain of family run theateres and drive ins is pretty much gonna be dust.
As I myself too have lived in the area, I can only think of one movie house left from when I was a teen. And I myself am only 40.I am surprised that the place has stayed up this long.If and when it does go, It will be another place of my youth gone. Then I can be like my folks and tell stories about that and this was here and there and what a great place this was. But that is the way it is like it or not.

Good post. Never gave Westland a second thought before I read this thread about the Quo Vadis. From the postcard on Winter Wonderland seems as if the original owners put some money into the design that you don't find too often.

In this entire topic, I was most impressed by the young people looking to save this building. Obviously they see something in this building they can identify with. Think the leaders should give them a serious listen, but unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's much that can be done.

**DetroitHabitater** · August-28-09, 09:49 AM

I lived in Westland in the early 2000's.

The first one was a sports store, either a dunhams or a champs

second one was a "johnny carinos" only built in 2004

The third one was a 'Value City', they may of only moved locations.

**GREENTROIT** · August-28-09, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Catman

"There once upon a time was a City named Westland. They were proud to have turned back the evil Livonians who wanted to take their land upon which a mighty mall was built. They prospered and reached 100,000 in population! But bad times came. One by one, stores and businesses closed. One day, in act of economic desperation, they killed their prized building, the Quo Vadis. The days turned cold and the skies darkened and from then on, Westland was no more. This marker marks the spot in the middle of this vast farm field where the QV, Wayne and Warren Roads, and the Westland Mall once stood. Dedicated on this day September 11, 2021."

Haha! Relax, though. It's hardly appropriate for someone who left in 1987 and hasn't seen the city in 5 years to write an obituary for it based on the possibility that the freaking Quo Vadis is demolished. Westland is doing fine. It's just like every other inner-ring suburb, nothing extraordinary but its not like its a war zone. Losing the Quo Vadis doesn't signal the end of Westland by any means, in fact I would much rather see them tear up the concrete on the site of the demo'd building and put in a large park with a connecting footbridge to the Mall parking lot. It would be better looking than the QV and actually usable. You should come back sometime soon, you wouldn't be shocked and dismayed with Westland it will probably look just about the same.

@ Danny... "The stores surrounding Westland Mall just sit empty for more the 10 years while the mall is still booming" is a terribly ignorant statement. Plenty of stores around the area are doing just fine. Target and Best Buy are always busy. Dick's Sporting Goods has somehow stayed open through the years. There are countless other smaller stores that have stayed open. Admittedly the area hasn't supported business extremely well, but it isn't like nothing can stay open.

**Danny** · August-28-09, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

@ Lowell in regards to ID'ing the buildings.

In Order:
Michael's Arts & Crafts [[closed this year)
Carino's Italian Grill [[I think)
Value City Department Store
Value City Furniture
Denny's [[demo'd and a Sonic is being built)

That's right Green Detroit. I went to those buildings and shop around and eat and it closed down really quick when the recession hit. That is a waste of space and money. The suburbs and corporations should be ashamed of themselves. The man from the College of Urban Studies at the University of San Antonio was right. Traffic congestion big box stores all over creates a lack of predestian life in a certain area.

@ Danny... "The stores surrounding Westland Mall just sit empty for more the 10 years while the mall is still booming" is a terribly ignorant statement. Plenty of stores around the area are doing just fine. Target and Best Buy are always busy. Dick's Sporting Goods has somehow stayed open through the years. There are countless other smaller stores that have stayed open. Admittedly the area hasn't supported business extremely well, but it isn't like nothing can stay open.

It is a TRUE statement! Please look the following photos that Mr. Boileau had been posted. If you lived in that area you will see lot of empty big box storefronts surrounding Westland Mall. Please re-read my codespeak and be ethical and logical before you post your coments in this thread. The comment that have posted is the report from Mr.Boileau and I agree on the evidence.

**GREENTROIT** · August-28-09, 10:08 AM

Thanks, but I grew up less than a half mile from the Quo Vadis. So I'm well informed on the area.

**Catman** · August-28-09, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by GREENTROIT

Thanks, but I grew up less than a half mile from the Quo Vadis. So I'm well informed on the area.

I know I exaggerated the prophesy of the future demise of Westland based on the demolition of QV but I just did an extropolation of the trend of the past few years.

Anyway, I grew up near the Warren Road and Bison intersection, roughly a 1/2 mile from QV myself.