Chief Craig says arming teachers is a good idea...

[Zacha341]

^^^ LOL! That was naughty HT... I've told you before to 'do nice'! Or you're going into time-out!

"0" The reason being the attacker would be so horribly out-gunned, it would be a suicide mission.

[Honky Tonk]

^^^ LOL! That was naughty HT... I've told you before to 'do nice'! Or you're going into time-out!

"Yes dear..."

[Wesley Mouch]

No mass assault-style shootings have occured from my understanding.

Why is this? There's no shortage of guns in Detroit, I hear. The school shooting thing seems to lean white & suburban. Is it really that intersectionality is a contra-indicator to self-indulgent mass gun murder drama?

[bust]

The impetus for this particular thread was a school shooting. But I'm not sure it's useful to limit our discussion to guns in schools. Only a few of our worst massacres were at schools:

Deadliest U.S. mass shootings, 1984-2017
http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages/

That list doesn't begin until 1984, and it's a little out of date now, unfortunately. But it proves the point.

Here's a much shorter list of the 20 deadliest mass shootings in US history that makes it easy to see key facts like the type[[s) of weapon used:

Mass Shootings in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

The school shooting thing seems to lean white & suburban.

Not really. Mass murderers: that's what some say. But I'm not sure how disproportionately it leans that way. Check the mass shootings lists above. White and suburban have definitely not always been the case.

If you want to limit the discussion to school shootings, there's a list of them compiled at wikipedia:

List of School Shootings in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

It's not just a suburban phenomenon. In fact Detroit sadly has accumulated more than anywhere else except Stockton [[where 38 were shot in 3 minutes) and Littleton [[where besides the Columbine massacre three others have been shot) -- unless you include universities [[University of Texas, Virginia Tech).

According to the school shootings data there have been 35 shootings in Detroit Public Schools, resulting in 5 deaths. You can click the numbered link after each description to read a news story describing the event.

A few takeaways from this data:

• The first shooting in a Detroit Public School occurred in 1976.
• 14 out of the first 16 shootings occurred at Murray-Wright HS.
• 21 of the shootings occurred between 1984 and 1992.
• The most in a single day occurred on November 4, 1992, when 11 students were shot in 3 separate incidents.
• There was not another school shooting in Detroit after that for almost 16 years.

Date	Deaths	Injuries	Description
Feb 12, 1976	0	5	Intruders entered Murray-Wright High School, shooting and wounding five students after an apparent dispute over a girlfriend of one of the intruders.[169]
Nov 10, 1976	1	0	46-year-old Al Lewis, killed his estranged wife, 46-year-old Betty McCaster, as she was teaching thirty-six 6-and-7-year-old students at Burt Elementary School.[170]
Apr 20, 1984	1	0	13-year-old Kelly Crittendon, was accidentally killed by two classmates in a classroom at the Precious Blood School.[202]
Oct 18, 1985	0	6	During half-time of the homecoming football game between Northwestern and Murray-Wright high schools, a youth opened fire with a shotgun, injuring six students with whom he had fought earlier in the day.[206]
Apr 16, 1987	1	2	A ninth-grade student at Murray-Wright High School killed 17-year-old Chester Jackson, a student athlete, and wounded 17-year-old Damon Matthews, and 18-year-old Tomeka Turner.[224]
Nov 4, 1992	0	11	11 students were hit by gunfire during a four-hour period in three separate school incidents, five were hospitalized. Six students at Finney High School were grazed by buckshot after three ski-masked gunmen opened fire in a crowded hallway. A 14-year-old was in custody for shooting three Foch Middle School students as they passed by the Marcus Garvey Academy. In the third incident, 16-year-old DeWayne Boyd was hit in the chest, when shots were fired at two Mumford High School students.[251]
Oct 16, 2008	1	3	16-year-old Christopher Walker, was killed, and three other teenagers were seriously wounded during a drive-by shooting near Henry Ford High School, soon after classes let out. Three teenagers were arrested and charged in connection with the shooting. The shooter, 15-year-old William Morton, was sentenced to life without parole, and Devon Bell was sentenced to forty-two years of prison.[376]
Sep 8, 2010	0	2	Two students were wounded in front of Mumford High School by 17-year-old Steven Jamal Hare. He was tried as an adult and charged with assault with intent to kill. In 2012, Hare was sentenced to 27 years in prison.[391]
Jan 12, 2013	0	1	A 16-year-old Osborn High School student is wounded after a basketball game.[421]
Apr 11, 2014	1	0	After a Friday evening student awards ceremony called "Grammy Night", four men who were affiliated with a gang fired into a crowd in the parking lot of East English Village Preparatory Academy. One 19-year-old, Darryl Smith, was fatally shot in the head. Smith was not a student at the academy.[469]
TOTAL	5	30

For comparison:

	Overall			Since 1976
City	Deaths	Injuries	Total	Deaths	Injuries	Total
Atlanta	0	2	2	0	2	2
Baltimore	1	0	1	0	0	0
Boston	2	0	2	0	0	0
Chicago	6	11	17	2	8	10
Cleveland	2	6	8	2	6	8
Dallas	2	0	2	2	0	2
Detroit	5	30	35	5	30	35
Houston	2	4	6	2	4	6
Los Angeles	8	22	30	6	22	28
Miami	3	4	7	2	2	4
New York	12	16	28	4	5	9
Philadelphia	3	7	10	1	5	6
Phoenix	0	0	0	0	0	0
St. Louis	5	4	9	3	4	7
San Antonio	0	3	3	0	3	3
San Jose	0	0	0	0	0	0
San Francisco	1	7	8	0	7	7
Washington DC	4	1	5	2	0	2

Note: This data includes incidents such as shootings attending a sporting event, leaving school, and on one occasion [[4 shot in Philadelphia) at an official sporting event off campus. And I did not carefully limit the comparison data to primary and secondary schools. It may contain a few shootings at colleges too.

[Honky Tonk]

One thing about sitting on the internet all day and posting a bunch of stuff, is it gives you the feeling you've actually accomplished something.

[Zacha341]

Thanks for pulling this data Bust. I'd forgotten the Murray-Wright HS shootings, particularly that early school invasion -- this and other incidences earning Murray the nick-name of 'Murder'-Wright for years after. Murray was one of the first HS that had Detroit Police officers on site from time to time well before DPS started their own policing department.

Tragic as the other incidence at DPS schools have been aside from the early MW incident, most of the DPS shooting have occurred outside of the schools. This may be due to the metal detectors being somewhat of a deterrent for guns on the premises. These are very scary times indeed.

.... Here's a much shorter list of the 20 deadliest mass shootings in US history that makes it easy to see key facts like the type[[s) of weapon used:

Mass Shootings in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_s..._United_States

Not really. Mass murderers: that's what some say. But I'm not sure how disproportionately it leans that way. Check the mass shootings lists above. White and suburban have definitely not always been the case.

If you want to limit the discussion to school shootings, there's a list of them compiled at wikipedia:

List of School Shootings in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

It's not just a suburban phenomenon. In fact Detroit sadly has accumulated more than anywhere else except Stockton [[where 38 were shot in 3 minutes) and Littleton [[where besides the Columbine massacre three others have been shot) -- unless you include universities [[University of Texas, Virginia Tech).

According to the school shootings data there have been 35 shootings in Detroit Public Schools, resulting in 5 deaths. You can click the numbered link after each description to read a news story describing the event.

A few takeaways from this data:

• The first shooting in a Detroit Public School occurred in 1976.
• 14 out of the first 16 shootings occurred at Murray-Wright HS.
• 21 of the shootings occurred between 1984 and 1992.
• The most in a single day occurred on November 4, 1992, when 11 students were shot in 3 separate incidents.
• There was not another school shooting in Detroit after that for almost 16 years.......

[Meddle]

Thanks for pulling this data Bust.

Editing quotes is very easy here. No need to repost endless posts in their entirety.

[Zacha341]

I know very well how to do that, but in this case I felt the info needed to be carried over and unlike reposting images text-only does not take up much band-width.

[detroitsgwenivere]

That list above is a little light...

Redford H.S., October 14, 1993: While waiting for the bus to pick him up from school property, gang members approached 15-year-old Frank Miles and shot him to death. Police believe this to be a case of mistaken identity.

Osborn H.S., February 8, 1994: While sitting in a car in the school's parking lot, 19-year-old special education student Steven Watkins was gunned down by an unknown assailant, and died.

Pershing H.S., March 17, 1997: During a fight in the school parking lot, 16-year-old Kenneth Baumgart was shot to death. Three male high school students were charged with Kenneth's murder.

Osborn H.S., February 2, 2001: In one of two violent incidents that week, two students and a teacher were grazed by gunfire in the band room. Names were not released in this shooting.

Osborn H.S., December 2, 2002: At 9:45 a.m. a 15-year-old male student dropped a 9mm handgun from his pocket and shot a bullet into his left thigh. He snuck the gun into the school, which does have metal detectors, by entering through an unlocked staff door in the rear of the building. The teen told police he brought the gun to school because he was being threatened by a group of students.

Northern H.S., January 13, 2004: At 3:15 p.m., two boys, who were not students of the school, were having an argument. One of the boys, 19, left the school entirely, and when he returned, he shot the other boy, 18-year-old Aaron Wilson, six times in the leg.

Southeastern H.S., December 5, 2005: Two 14-year-old students were wounded by an 18-year-old man when he shot into a crowd of students at the school. A girl was shot in her shin and a boy was shot in his leg. Police charged him with nine counts of attempted murder.

Central H.S., December 6, 2005: While the students left the building for first dismissal, two non-students entered the building via a side door that was opened for them. A student was shot in the vestibule of the school, and pepper spray was used antagonizing several students nearby. The wounded individual survived.

Osborn H.S., January 13, 2006: In the second act of violence in as many days at a high school in Detroit, just after noon, an assistant principal confronted two male students in a hallway. One of the students fired a shot down the hall, hitting a wall and injuring no one. The students then fled the school, but were captured by school district police officers a short time later.

Pershing H.S. June 15, 2006: Two teenage boys threw bottles at cars as they drove past the BP gas station on 7 mile and Ryan. After having his car struck, the driver of a purple Dodge or Chrysler sedan with 3 male passengers stopped and confronted the boys, who took off running toward Pershing H.S. After the male driver cut off the teens, a 16-year-old night student was shot three times in the back. The shooters fled and were at large at the time of this publication.

Northwestern H.S., January 4, 2007: A group of students were standing outside their school building when a four-door burgundy Chevy Corsica pulled up to the curb, pulled out a gun and fired shots at the students. A 14-year-old girl was struck in the leg. The injured girl survived. A week later, police had a person of interest in custody.

Henry Ford H.S., May 10, 2007: Two former HFHS students, both 17 yr old males attending Mackenzie High School' Second Chance program, were at their former school around 2PM when a white Ford Taurus with four people inside pulled up and began firing. One boy was shot in the face, the other grazed along his back. Both survived.

Central H.S., February 17, 2009: Around 2:20PM, a male student got into a fight over a watch with 17 yr old Dajauhn Sutton, who did not attend the school. The male called his 18-year-old brother, William Vaughn, who managed to get into the secured school building and confront Dajauhn. Both males drew guns on each other, Dajauhn shot first, hitting the brother in the stomach. William returned fire hitting a nearby 18 yr old male non-student in the leg.

I might mention the many incidents that occur off of the school property as the kids are leaving school, like this one from Pershing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31K0NUPg0Qc


There was also the shooting murder of a student named Freddie in the parking lot of Pershing back in 96 or 97 that I cant find a single story about.

And I didn't bother to include the list of stabbings, some multiple.

Why are there a bunch of "non-students" hanging around inside the schools anyways? And what's up with the lack of parking lot security?

[Zacha341]

Light indeed. I thought the east side schools were under represented, especially Osborn that had a rep similar to Murray-Wright.

[Honky Tonk]

Why are there a bunch of "non-students" hanging around inside the schools anyways? And what's up with the lack of parking lot security?

A lack of parking lot security funding. You're talking about schools that didn't have pencils, books, or toilet paper.

[canuck]

A lack of parking lot security funding. You're talking about schools that didn't have pencils, books, or toilet paper.

Yes, leave the potholes in the parking lot, but don't leave me without no turlet paper.

[Pat001]

Armed deputies yes, armed teachers, no.

[detroitsgwenivere]

A lack of parking lot security funding. You're talking about schools that didn't have pencils, books, or toilet paper.

I'm thinking more along the lines of DPD. If a huge number of school shootings is occurring in the parking lot you'd think the cops would be hanging out around the lot more often.

Speaking of which, does anyone know when the DPSPD came about?

[bust]

That list above is a little light...

Thanks for filling in so much missing info!

[Honky Tonk]

All the shootings you've listed were one time occurrences @ various times and places. You can't possibly cover every school and their parking lots with DPD. The expense would be enormous. Besides, didn't you post you didn't want to live in a police state?

[detroitsgwenivere]

One more: A 16-year-old boy at Detroit's Denby High School was stabbed to death in January, 1996. Demetrius Anderson's death followed by one day the beating of a 16-year-old Pershing High School student with a lead pipe by gang members just off school property. A week prior, a 16-year-old student at Northern High School was shot inside that school. A year previous to that, three students were shot at Denby, Pershing and Redford high schools in three separate incidents in one day.

I'm pulling these references off of other people's school violence project pdfs.

[Meddle]

Not sure how this got into singles incidents decades ago, but I don't think there's too much on the web today about all the gang violence including shootings and stabbing back in the 60s and earlier.

And do any of the items mentioned indicate if Teachers were present or anywhere nearby and if they would have been able to prevent it if armed?

I remember a couple of incidents in or around Cooley, but I have no idea when, who or with what.

[Honky Tonk]

So I gotta ask... and the rate of DPS assault weapon attacks is?

"0" As sad and tragic all these posted examples are, they're one and two murders because of would-be gangsta violence, someone d'srespected someone, or in the worst example, someone looked @ someone funny. No mass Parkland type shootings have occurred in the DPS system.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Not sure how this got into singles incidents decades ago...

Someone asked. Just keepin things 100.

[Richard]

"0" As sad and tragic all these posted examples are, they're one and two murders because of would-be gangsta violence, someone d'srespected someone, or in the worst example, someone looked @ someone funny. No mass Parkland type shootings have occurred in the DPS system.

it really is no difference then with the mass shootings,the shooters were not bored and decided to liven up the day,in their minds they had reason to do what they did,remember " going postal".

[Wesley Mouch]

A lack of parking lot security funding. You're talking about schools that didn't have pencils, books, or toilet paper.

Detroit's per-pupil funding is at or near the top of Michigan funding.

DPS does not have a funding problem. If they wished to fund parking lot security, they could do so. But they don't. They decide to spend their money elsewhere.

[Honky Tonk]

Detroit's per-pupil funding is at or near the top of Michigan funding.

DPS does not have a funding problem. If they wished to fund parking lot security, they could do so. But they don't. They decide to spend their money elsewhere.

Right you are on both accounts, WM. I'm well aware of how my tax dollars are being spent. To be spending that much money per pupil, and turning out those low test scores is shameful, not to mention the amount of waste in DPS. But of course, all this is the States fault

[G-DDT]

Armed deputies yes, armed teachers, no.

Agreed-especially when some teachers are stressed out enough, like this guy. https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/jesse...l-teacher-gun/ I'm reminded of a teacher that taught one grade up from me in grade school, had a meltdown in class [[this actually happened to one of our religion teachers who we later had in High School), ran out of the room, went into a full rant in front of the Principal and vomited on his desk [[kids deliberately walked past the Principal's office just to catch confirming whiffs of the smell).

What you bring up is especially crucial if the teacher happens to be a full on hate-filled racist like this woman https://heavy.com/news/2018/03/dayan...orida-teacher/ -oh, and yeah, she has very strong views on a variety of things, and opposing gun-control is one of them.

[G-DDT]

Special thanks to Bust and DetroitGwen for doing the research and posting it here.