Is Lincoln Park officially a ghetto?

[3d123]

I'll have to take stock of what sort of ghetto I live in, because that looks like a nice street to me.

Even older suburbs close to Detroit but not sharing a border with Detroit have a little sign of decay.

Take this example from Wyandotte, this one is in fact nowhere near either Lincoln Park or Ecorse.

[canuck]

I thought Wyandotte’s claim to fame was a bar AND a church on every block.

Youse need some places to take your cues and ones to take your booze.

[preserve]

Just being old doesn't make it a ghetto. I remember Fischer's for women's clothing and the A&W next to the police station and the skating rink and when Hudson's was the place to go at the Plaza. Maybe most of that is just a distant memory, but so are the places I remember in Detroit. The houses were very similar to those built after WWII in Detroit, mostly 3 bedroom, galley kitchen, small dining area and full basement.
I always did like Wyandotte more, they had more of a downtown area and they had the waterfront.

[melvindaler]

Here is, in my opinion, the most accurate rank of Downriver communities based on ghetto-ness. 1 is the most ghetto, 21 is the least ghetto. Since Brownstown isn't contiguous, its three sections have their own rankings

1. River Rouge
2. Ecorse
3. Lincoln Park
4. Romulus
5. Taylor
6. Melvindale
7. Wyandotte
8. Riverview
9. Trenton
10. Allen Park
11. Southgate
12. Brownstown [[Northernmost segment)
13. Rockwood
14. Huron
15. New Boston
16. Gibraltar
17. Flat Rock
18. Brownstown [[middle segment
19. Brownstown [[SE segment)
20. Woodhaven
21. Grosse Ile

[MicrosoftFan]

Here is, in my opinion, the most accurate rank of Downriver communities based on ghetto-ness. 1 is the most ghetto, 21 is the least ghetto. Since Brownstown isn't contiguous, its three sections have their own rankings

1. River Rouge
2. Ecorse
3. Lincoln Park
4. Romulus
5. Taylor
6. Melvindale
7. Wyandotte
8. Riverview
9. Trenton
10. Allen Park
11. Southgate
12. Brownstown [[Northernmost segment)
13. Rockwood
14. Huron
15. New Boston
16. Gibraltar
17. Flat Rock
18. Brownstown [[middle segment
19. Brownstown [[SE segment)
20. Woodhaven
21. Grosse Ile

Allen Park and Southgate should be above Trenton and Riverview. Also, Taylor [[some segments) more ghetto than the majority of LP.

[ABetterDetroit]

It will get worse until something is changed. There are a pile of struggling communities in Michigan.

The tax structure of being dependent on property taxes is archaic, a proven failure here.

There are no Somerset or Hunterdon Counties in this state. Taxing 800 sq. ft. houses like there are is ridiculous.

No wonder that only a few select communities like the Birminghams, Northvilles and Rochester Hills are doing well and in many other places houses and commercial properties are becoming disposable items with little value that we pay to bulldoze. Opportunities wasted.

How exactly was a capital equipment property tax awful for businesses and corporations yet another identical version of it working good for the rest of us?

Tax money, not property.

[Dumpling]

Using the term "ghetto" is rather hurtful for various groups of people,
not all of them being low income African Americans. It is a disparaging term.
For example the estimated 85% of Lincoln Park that is
White are harmed by the perception that the term creates, as
well as the 15% non-Whites in Lincoln Park.
Probably only a few are engaged in "tagging" or illegal drug use.
The reported assaults in Lincoln Park have increased year by year recently, a possible indicator of increased gang activity.
SOME low income African Americans have habits that cause problems for the communities they live in. It is more helpful to be specific about problems of greatest concern and what the costs, impacts and
possible solutions are. For example the local press has run articles
on the costs and impacts of gun violence in the City of Detroit.

The Downriver area has had a slow population decline. This decline
would have been worse had people not emigrated from Detroit into
Downriver. [[The guesstimate is about 50,000 persons moved
from Detroit to Downriver between 2000 and 2010.)

http://www.thenewsherald.com/news/do...a90a94b6b.html

It was found that the inner ring Downriver suburbs experienced the
least amount of population decline. [[I'm not totally sure about
this. It looks like both River Rouge and Ecorse experienced
the most population decline in percent terms. On the other
hand neither has a large population.)

So while there has to be some sense of cultural dislocation and,
in light of the high rates of violence in the City of Detroit, some
sense of unease for some residents of Downriver suburbs, it is
nevertheless a blessing to have enough neighbors around that
there is a community, tax base [[50,000 persons should "save"
a tax base of what, $1,000 per person at least), and
maintenance of home values.

[hybridy]

For example the estimated 85% of Lincoln Park that is White are harmed by the perception that the term creates, as
well as the 15% non-Whites in Lincoln Park.

Careful now...we’ve been told over and over to fear fear fear the minorities. They bring the crime they, they bring the poverty. Nobody talks about education anymore. Birmingham, Northville, and Pleasant Ridge May have wealthy folk, but they’re highly educated folk. The inner ring burbs are chock full of white folk...many poor and many with remedial educations - these places will continue to rot. Local and national leadership could give a fcuk about education that counts - like skilled trades or college, not that anyone can afford that shit anymore.

It’s MAGA, winning , 2020, drill baby drill, so no need for dat DPS GED. Stay ignant friends.

[313WX]

Downriver's problem is that it's so far away from the decent-paying jobs in the region. It would benefit the most if downtown Detroit was the primary job center of the region.

Other than Ford [[and places tied to Ford) and the very few companies downtown, most of the major white-collar employers are in Macomb, Western Wayne and Oakland County.

Atlanta is similar in this regard. Most of the major employers are in Cumberland / Perimeter / Alpharetta vs. downtown. Thus, much of the sprawl has also gone way north of the city, while the southside of the metro area remains heavily underdeveloped [[with the only major employer being Delta / the Airport).

[hybridy]

Downriver's problem is that it's so far away from the decent-paying jobs in the region. It would benefit the most if downtown Detroit was the primary job center of the region.

Ummm I disagree. I live at maple and lahser...my commute to CBD is 16 miles and always takes 50 mins in rush hr. I have colleagues in brownstown twp who have 30 min commutes to Southfield. The CBD for them is even closer...disregarding the bridge construction for the time being.

The only other major office burb is Troy and there are plenty of cheap commutable burbs/cities nearby.

[313WX]

Ummm I disagree. I live at maple and lahser...my commute to CBD is 16 miles and always takes 50 mins in rush hr. I have colleagues in brownstown twp who have 30 min commutes to Southfield. The CBD for them is even closer...disregarding the bridge construction for the time being.

The only other major office burb is Troy and there are plenty of cheap commutable burbs/cities nearby.

It's not just about time sitting in traffic though.

It's also wear and tear on the car [[which there's more of if you're driving double the distance every day to/from work) as well as accessibility to a lot of desirable retailers that only set up shop in area where there's a huge concentration of white collar employment, like Costco, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, etc. [[none of which are Downriver).

BTW, there's also Auburn Hills, Plymouth/Livonia and Warren/Sterling Heights [[TACOM/GM).

[Danny]

Downtown Lincoln Park is a mess. Their plaza on the corner of Dix and Southfield is a horrible. At least Sears Dept. Store is still hanging. And more Mexicans and Hispanics are quickly occupying those neighborhoods before black folks do.

[Bham1982]

Allen Park and Southgate should be above Trenton and Riverview. Also, Taylor [[some segments) more ghetto than the majority of LP.

I would agree with all this. I'm also not sure that Melvindale is nicer than Lincoln Park.

The only "ghettos", though, on the list, would be River Rouge and Ecorse [[parts of Taylor come close). Lincoln Park is struggling working class, more or less like Melvindale. Both cities are being kept afloat by Mexicans.

[Bham1982]

Ummm I disagree. I live at maple and lahser...my commute to CBD is 16 miles and always takes 50 mins in rush hr. I have colleagues in brownstown twp who have 30 min commutes to Southfield. The CBD for them is even closer...disregarding the bridge construction for the time being.

But the CBD is a peripheral jobs center. You actually live in the region's primary jobs center. If you're at Maple/Lasher you know what homes go for in Bloomfield Village, and why.

You have a longer commute than Downriver because you commute out of the employment core, to the CBD, which is closer to Downriver.

[softailrider]

Ummm I disagree. I live at maple and lahser...my commute to CBD is 16 miles and always takes 50 mins in rush hr. I have colleagues in brownstown twp who have 30 min commutes to Southfield. The CBD for them is even closer...disregarding the bridge construction for the time being.

The only other major office burb is Troy and there are plenty of cheap commutable burbs/cities nearby.

What time do you leave? I live at Maple and Lasher too, I would say on a no snow day I almost always beat that 50 minutes. I don’t leave real early though, about 9:15 ish.

[hybridy]

What time do you leave? I live at Maple and Lasher too, I would say on a no snow day I almost always beat that 50 minutes. I don’t leave real early though, about 9:15 ish.

Lol who starts work that late?

[detroitsgwenivere]

^^ That's a good time to leave, you avoid most of the morning yahoos. And then you leave a little later, missing out on the evening rush hour nonsense.

Lots of people I work with downtown are from the downriver area. Its a straight shot up 75 or Fort, and has a few different detour options if necessary.

[CHernan]

I'd like to take a stab at this. Former Lincoln Park resident. Moved out in 2016.

From my observations, LP took quite a hit [[as many other communities) by the downturn of the Economy. Especially being a predominately blue collar town. Many, many homes went into foreclosure. During this time, many Hispanics took advantage and used the opportunity to move out of SW and down into the Downriver suburbs. Most of said Hispanics are hardworking and really care about the appearance, maintenance, and upkeep of their homes. You can take homes in SW for example. These folks have even taken part in growing the small business economy Downriver. Markets, restaurants, etc. have been trending Downriver as of late.

At the same time, some folks took the opportunity to scoop up cheap houses to use for rentals. Many being occupied by lower income, and some government-aid receiving tenants.

I have to agree with some of the comments in this thread. The Northern end seems to be the least desirable, and more run down part. A gradual improvement as you move south.

LP has it's share of trashy people, which does not necessarily have any racial/ethic boundaries. Anyone can be trashy. As I've heard/read, LP is also having its fair share of junkies by the opioid epidemic. This breeds crime, homelessness, and beggars, naturally.

Lincoln Park is not a bad place, as it may be seen by some outsiders. Neither is it perfect. Since the area is relatively affordable, many millennials [[I know this first hand), have decided to make LP their home and raise a family. The same can be said for most of the other downriver suburbs.

In my opinion, it's future can go either way. LP does however need a revitalization in regards to major employers.

[Lowell]

I think Lincoln Park will do just fine. Its problems are no more than any other inner ring suburb's--population loss and readjustment with new communities of people. And I agree with you observation on Hispanics who saved SW Detroit from decline and will help LP.

[Lowell]

Lincoln Park Shopping Center at Dix and Southfield is in the process of being demolished.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/20...ars/395236002/

Time has run out for a desolate Downriver shopping center that once housed dozens of stores — many long out of business — and hosted a rain-soaked re-election rally for President Ronald Reagan in 1984.

Excavator machines are tearing through what remains of the Lincoln Park Shopping Center at Southfield Road and Dix Highway. The wedge-shaped strip mall dates to 1957 and was connected by a covered walkway to a still-open Sears store that has its own water tower.

[turkeycall]

Okay, people. It's time for a reality check. The following is a conversation I had about 41 years ago when I was a Machine Repairman at Budd. An apprentice who happened to be black [[yeah, that was the accepted term in the day) and I were working together. Here's the conversation:
App: Did you watch TV last night?
Me: Not too much . . . had some other stuff to do.
App: Oh, you missed it, then.
Me: What did I miss?
App: "Roots."
Me: What about it?
App: You missed what you white folks did to us black folks.
Me: Really? What did we do to you?
App: You made us live in a ghetto.
Me: Do you know what a ghetto is?
App: Yeah, it's a slum.
Me: No, it is not a slum. It is a section of a city or even a whole city where the majority of the people living there are of a single ethnic background. The whole city of Hamtramck was a Polish ghetto at one time. Every Saturday the babshas would go back in the alley and hose everything down. They'd tend the flowers they had planted there and made sure the garage was cleaned of car-splattered mud balls. The husbands mowed the grass and painted the house when it was needed. That ghetto could probably have made a good topic for Better Homes and Gardens. No, a ghetto is not a slum; but it can be a slum if you let be one.
Now, as far as what we white people did to you black people - your people were here a long time before my people were here. They were Volga Germans and came in 1913 from Russia. They lived in the Germantown section of Port Huron. They kept their neighborhoods up, too.
App: Oh.

[Bham1982]

White people forced African American people into slums, which were redlined by banks and institutionalized as areas unfit for investment. Whether or not your descendants are from the Volga or whatever is irrelevant.

You probably should have listened to your buddy, who was likely just being polite in his response. There are very good reasons why certain neighborhoods weren't "kept up" as well as others.

[bust]

For a better definition of ghetto maybe we could re-read The Merchant of Venice.

For a better understanding of how black people in Detroit have suffered discrimination, and how their neighborhoods fell into such disrepair, maybe we could start with this map:

Detroit Redlining Map 1939
https://detroitography.com/2014/12/1...ning-map-1939/

If we could compare maps from every decade that would be even better.

And maybe we could continue with Bill Bunge's Atlas of Love and Hate:

An Atlas of Love And Hate: Detroit In The 1970s
https://architizer.com/blog/practice...l-cartography/

[aj3647]

Okay, people. It's time for a reality check. The following is a conversation I had about 41 years ago when I was a Machine Repairman at Budd. An apprentice who happened to be black [[yeah, that was the accepted term in the day) and I were working together. Here's the conversation:
App: Did you watch TV last night?
Me: Not too much . . . had some other stuff to do.
App: Oh, you missed it, then.
Me: What did I miss?
App: "Roots."
Me: What about it?
App: You missed what you white folks did to us black folks.
Me: Really? What did we do to you?
App: You made us live in a ghetto.
Me: Do you know what a ghetto is?
App: Yeah, it's a slum.
Me: No, it is not a slum. It is a section of a city or even a whole city where the majority of the people living there are of a single ethnic background. The whole city of Hamtramck was a Polish ghetto at one time. Every Saturday the babshas would go back in the alley and hose everything down. They'd tend the flowers they had planted there and made sure the garage was cleaned of car-splattered mud balls. The husbands mowed the grass and painted the house when it was needed. That ghetto could probably have made a good topic for Better Homes and Gardens. No, a ghetto is not a slum; but it can be a slum if you let be one.
Now, as far as what we white people did to you black people - your people were here a long time before my people were here. They were Volga Germans and came in 1913 from Russia. They lived in the Germantown section of Port Huron. They kept their neighborhoods up, too.
App: Oh.

So no acknowledgement then that ghettos, historically, exist almost always due to government-sanctioned [[or even government-enforced) public policy designed to segregate one group from another, aside from the social and economic factors that also restrict the mobility of maligned minority groups?

Black Bottom wasn't a slum either, it was a thriving neighborhood until the government destroyed it by building a freeway through it [[and demolishing everything in the path of that freeway). Funny how you didn't use that example though, you went with an example that had white people in it.

[turkeycall]

"So no acknowledgement then that ghettos, historically, exist almost always due to government-sanctioned [[or even government-enforced) public policy designed to segregate one group from another, aside from the social and economic factors that also restrict the mobility of maligned minority groups?"

If that logic is followed it must have been a government sanctioned and enforced public policy that so many Arab immigrants live in Dearborn.

"Black Bottom wasn't a slum either, it was a thriving neighborhood until the government destroyed it by building a freeway through it [[and demolishing everything in the path of that freeway). Funny how you didn't use that example though, you went with an example that had white people in it."

Of course it had white people in it; they were my grandparents. When they arrived on the scene Americans then were just like Americans now: "What are those foreigners doing here? They're probably gonna take my job for less pay and put me out in the street. You can't trust them immigrants, anyhow. They can't even speak the American language."

Those immigrants lived in the same neighborhood because they were familiar with each other and they learned the acceptable "American" language together. They looked out for one another and took care of one another. Hardly any of them owned the house they lived in. They were renters, but that didn't stop them from taking care to maintain the property and keep it clean and presentable to anyone who happened to stray through the neighborhood from some other part of town.