Illitches announce another new development, behind Eddystone

[ABetterDetroit]

Already? Time sure does fly by these days...

Illitch Rendering Season is here!

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Already? Time sure does fly by these days...

Illitch Rendering Season is here!

It’s also ambiguous time line season.

[ABetterDetroit]

It’s also ambiguous time line season.

Yep. Gather all the excuses and put them under the rendering tree...

[emu steve]

I keep wondering if at some point Ilitch will try and “combine” all of these projects into one massive “project”, and then apply for the big “Transformational” tax credit that Gilbert got last year for the Hudson/ MonroeBlock/ BookTower “project”.Ilitch and crew love their tax breaks and subsidies [[not that I blame them), and this might be a way for them to cash in big time. Of course if they got the approval for the Transformational Tax Credit, then they’d actually have to follow through with their projects to fully cash in.

One thing I noticed is that they are moving away from residential housing in their NEW buildings [[by the LCA) which would not get tax credits and subject to the 20% affordable housing.

[Eber Brock Ward]

This is just laughable. I look forward to additional announcements on some of these same properties next year, with no new progress.

[Zads07]

Be vigilant people. When Ilitch announces a new project and we've seen this in the past, they want to tear down their other buildings they own.

[emu steve]

Be vigilant people. When Ilitch announces a new project and we've seen this in the past, they want to tear down their other buildings they own.

My best answer to this and the Special Counsel's [[Mueller) investigation is that TIME will prove people right or wrong.

Building a building isn't ultimately about spin. Either the building is built or it isn't built. If it isn't built, spin doesn't matter. If the building is built those who predicted it wouldn't be, they 'eat crow.'

Likewise, the Mueller investigation isn't about newspaper stories, polls, Tweets, etc.

At the conclusion, there will be findings and presumable more will plead or be indicted. Then trials.

At that time [[after the trials or pleads) history will make its judgement.

[royce]

My question is this: Did the Ilitches know when they announced “District Detroit” that the planned new construction residential developments weren’t feasible but they went ahead an got everybody’s hopes up that residential would happen near LCA?

I ask this because wouldn’t they have studied or done a feasibility study on the probability that residential would work near the arena. All of the proposed residential on Henry never looked plausible to me. The frontage of the garage at 111 Henry seems too short depth-wise to have residential. The planned residential on Henry across the street from 111 Henry [[the one with just a first floor base) doesn’t appear that it would have had access to the garage that’s currently behind it.

Seriously, if residential was going to be built by the arena, it would have been built by now. Just another case of Ilitch “bait and switch.” I’m just surprised more of you aren’t outraged.

Also, this announcement doesn’t excite me because as I look around downtown I still see a lot of vacant buildings [[even those being renovated by Dan Gilbert) that are still waiting for office tenants. What makes the Ilitches think that their new built properties are going to attract office tenants? When I visited the LCA for a Pistons game, I walked around and could see many empty offices in the office part of the arena. Now, the Ilitches want to build more office space and hope “if you build it, they will come.”

I believe the true reason that they want to transition from residential to office is to get more money from parking fees from these new office workers. The residents in those previous planned residential units might not need a car and would not need parking spaces. Well, the Ilitches can’t have that. That would cut into their parking profits. I guess we’ll just have to patiently wait and see what happens next.

[Honky Tonk]

My question is this: Did the Ilitches know when they announced “District Detroit” that the planned new construction residential developments weren’t feasible but they went ahead an got everybody’s hopes up that residential would happen near LCA? I ask this because wouldn’t they have studied or done a feasibility study on the probability that residential would work near the arena. All of the proposed residential on Henry never looked plausible to me. The frontage of the garage at 111 Henry seems too short depth-wise to have residential.

Much like Steve's interjection of Trump b/s to gain support for his Ilitch adoration, the Ilitch's knew exactly what to say to gain support, with very little pushback, to get approval to have their office buildings constructed.

[emu steve]

Much like Steve's interjection of Trump b/s to gain support for his Ilitch adoration, the Ilitch's knew exactly what to say to gain support, with very little pushback, to get approval to have their office buildings constructed.

I'm not sure I follow you, but what I'm getting at this:

Certain things are predictions about future events [[bring back the Yogi Berra joke).

We can have posts, Tweets, press conferences, newspaper articles, etc. but a PREDICTION about a future event is something which will be proven to be prophetic or wishful thinking or mostly B.S.

What I'm saying is that in a few years all of these posts will be proven to be prophetic or just B.S.

Same like if someone predicts who is going to win the World Series, 2018 congressional elections, 2019 Super Bowl, etc. Everyone may have an opinion, but in the end they will be proven either right or wrong.

If we all look back in say 3 or 4 years we'll know specifically if these buildings were built/rehabbed or not.

In the meantime...

[Junjie]

...

What I'm saying is that in a few years all of these posts will be proven to be prophetic or just B.S.

Same like if someone predicts who is going to win the World Series, 2018 congressional elections, 2019 Super Bowl, etc. Everyone may have an opinion, but in the end they will be proven either right or wrong.

If we all look back in say 3 or 4 years we'll know specifically if these buildings were built/rehabbed or not.

In the meantime...

Well, that's kind of the point. It's now a year later, and nothing has happened. The people who are skeptical are basing their opinions on what is happening. We can compare last year's announcement to this year's.

Eddystone: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

Alhambra: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

Hotel Ft. Wayne/American: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

United Artists: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming 2018

111 Henry [[new construction): no progress, changed from residential to office, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming ???

120 Henry [[new construction): no progress, changed from residential to office, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming ???

For those keeping score, that's 0 for 6.

Now they've come out and added a few more projects to this list. But you don't get credit for making an announcement that you'll do something and then claiming "maybe next year" every time you hit the deadline. When one of these things actually gets underway with active construction work and a timeline to open, we should revise our opinions accordingly. Until then, evidence suggests the skepticism is warranted.

Edit: Is 111 Henry the building that is immediately south of the new LCA parking garage? I thought there had been actual construction updates on that one, but odd that if it's the same one they wouldn't include any photos or mention in this year's article to say the building already exists.

[JonWylie]

A Crain's reporter tweeted this photo https://twitter.com/kirkpinhoCDB/sta...71260998377472

Nothing but conceptual, but it puts a nice visual to the ideas

[ABetterDetroit]

I'm not sure I follow you, but what I'm getting at this:

Certain things are predictions about future events [[bring back the Yogi Berra joke).

We can have posts, Tweets, press conferences, newspaper articles, etc. but a PREDICTION about a future event is something which will be proven to be prophetic or wishful thinking or mostly B.S.

What I'm saying is that in a few years all of these posts will be proven to be prophetic or just B.S.

Same like if someone predicts who is going to win the World Series, 2018 congressional elections, 2019 Super Bowl, etc. Everyone may have an opinion, but in the end they will be proven either right or wrong.

If we all look back in say 3 or 4 years we'll know specifically if these buildings were built/rehabbed or not.

In the meantime...

You are getting more confusing every time renderings are produced by the Illitch family Steve.

You by far, without a close second, have predicted that the family will deliver and astonish all of us each and every time when the “renderings” are released, taking on any doubters aggressively.

This is you on 7/20/2014 on a long past rendering release day with a lot of bold print:

In case anyone missed this:

"Included in plans for the $200-million entertainment district are hundreds of market-rate rental units in at least four new mid-rise buildings that are set to go up around the arena as well as near Comerica Park. The apartments are expected to be ready for tenants by summer 2017.
The precise number of units is still being determined and is anticipated to exceed 500..."

According to the concept drawings, it appears that maybe two residential building will be built on the now surface parking lots along Woodward adjacent to Comerica Park. [[confirmed in Freep and Crains articles. 2017 is the expected completion date for those buildings as well).

[[I've read dozens of posts here complaining about those surface lots).

So what is it now? You no longer believe the renderings much either? They are now “Wishful thinking” or “BS”???

We can certainly rule out “prophetic” if you just keep adding “3 or 4 years” to the timeline and changing the plans consistently over time just like they do.

If “PREDICTIONS” are now just bull shit you owe many folks here a sincere apology for inundating yours on every single thread on this forum about the largest private property owner in downtown Detroit by far. It is reasonable they would be discussed on a board dedicated to Detroit and opinions would indeed vary greatly about what the family has done with all that property.

P.S. Please be really honest in your answer. You have made many predictions with specific completion targets for Illitch renderings for years with a “get back to me in X many years” so it was going to happen eventually.

[southen]

Lmao that is definitely for the convention that’s in town to make the organization look good. It looks great, but I wouldn’t count on it happening.

[CrashDummy]

I believe the true reason that they want to transition from residential to office is to get more money from parking fees from these new office workers. The residents in those previous planned residential units might not need a car and would not need parking spaces. Well, the Ilitches can’t have that. That would cut into their parking profits. I guess we’ll just have to patiently wait and see what happens next.

I thought it might be difficult to get a parking jab into this recent topic. It took a little while, but well done, sir, well done!

[Zads07]

Well, that's kind of the point. It's now a year later, and nothing has happened. The people who are skeptical are basing their opinions on what is happening. We can compare last year's announcement to this year's.

Eddystone: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

Alhambra: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

Hotel Ft. Wayne/American: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2018, now claiming 2019

United Artists: no progress, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming 2018

111 Henry [[new construction): no progress, changed from residential to office, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming ???

120 Henry [[new construction): no progress, changed from residential to office, originally supposed to start work 2017, now claiming ???

For those keeping score, that's 0 for 6.

Now they've come out and added a few more projects to this list. But you don't get credit for making an announcement that you'll do something and then claiming "maybe next year" every time you hit the deadline. When one of these things actually gets underway with active construction work and a timeline to open, we should revise our opinions accordingly. Until then, evidence suggests the skepticism is warranted.

Edit: Is 111 Henry the building that is immediately south of the new LCA parking garage? I thought there had been actual construction updates on that one, but odd that if it's the same one they wouldn't include any photos or mention in this year's article to say the building already exists.

Thank you for posting this Junjie, this is the kind of stuff that we are trying to show EMU Steve here. This is the reason we are all skeptical and yet he believes that Ilitch will follow through. Facts are facts.

[archfan]

A Crain's reporter tweeted this photo https://twitter.com/kirkpinhoCDB/sta...71260998377472

Nothing but conceptual, but it puts a nice visual to the ideas

Hah, somebody saw Gilbert's SimCity table, and wanted his own.

[emu steve]

Thank you for posting this Junjie, this is the kind of stuff that we are trying to show EMU Steve here. This is the reason we are all skeptical and yet he believes that Ilitch will follow through. Facts are facts.

I don't know about your facts.

Ilitches have completed what: LCA, Comerica parking garage, nearly complete LC headquarters, two [[now three?) parking garage/buildings in progress, WSU school of business [[its Ilitch $), etc.

Ten years ago if they had done that in Detroit, Detroit would have thrown a parade down Woodward.

Sorry, guys, I have absolutely no problem with how all of this is being done.

Building projects are always late. Usually very late. Usually over budget, especially if the project keeps getting bigger. Just ask Gilbert about Hudsons.

Are the other Gilbert NEW construction projects also late?

Just think of how long the jail project took to get no where.

[casscorridor]

I don't know about your facts.

Ilitches have completed what: LCA, Comerica parking garage, nearly complete LC headquarters, two [[now three?) parking garage/buildings in progress, WSU school of business [[its Ilitch $), etc.

Ten years ago if they had done that in Detroit, Detroit would have thrown a parade down Woodward.

Sorry, guys, I have absolutely no problem with how all of this is being done.

Building projects are always late. Usually very late. Usually over budget, especially if the project keeps getting bigger. Just ask Gilbert about Hudsons.

Are the other Gilbert NEW construction projects also late?

Just think of how long the jail project took to get no where.

A new headquarters for their own existing business. A new building for an existing business school adorned with Illitch's name on it. Great, but the arena funding was based, at least in part, on the expectation that there would be developments in addition to these, and residential in particular. These projects, as they keep getting pushed further back will likely prove to be nothing but smoke in mirrors.

[gumby]

Dude, there is just no nice way to say this but You literally said, "If we all look back in say 3 or 4 years we'll know specifically if these buildings were built/rehabbed or not." and then someone finds a post of yours from 4 years ago spout off about buildings Ilitches were supposed to have finished by now which are not even started and you question their facts. Your head is so thick.

I don't know about your facts.

Ilitches have completed what: LCA, Comerica parking garage, nearly complete LC headquarters, two [[now three?) parking garage/buildings in progress, WSU school of business [[its Ilitch $), etc.

Ten years ago if they had done that in Detroit, Detroit would have thrown a parade down Woodward.

Sorry, guys, I have absolutely no problem with how all of this is being done.

Building projects are always late. Usually very late. Usually over budget, especially if the project keeps getting bigger. Just ask Gilbert about Hudsons.

Are the other Gilbert NEW construction projects also late?

Just think of how long the jail project took to get no where.

[emu steve]

Dude, there is just no nice way to say this but You literally said, "If we all look back in say 3 or 4 years we'll know specifically if these buildings were built/rehabbed or not." and then someone finds a post of yours from 4 years ago spout off about buildings Ilitches were supposed to have finished by now which are not even started and you question their facts. Your head is so thick.

Dude, if you hold ALL developers to the standards that you [[and others) are holding the Ilitches they will all fail to meet their press releases.

As I posted: A building project built on time and under budget is an oxymoron.

Classic case in point: Fail Jail.

Another case in point: Hudson building which I believe is years behind schedule.

The only buildings usually done on time, but NOT under budget are sports stadiums, where completion time schedules are met, sometimes at great cost [[cost overruns on labor costs).

[313rd]

Hah, somebody saw Gilbert's SimCity table, and wanted his own.

This is nothing new, this model of District Detroit has been around since 2015 when they had the preview center open in Comerica Park.

[gumby]

No asshat we are holding them to the standards you set of knowing 3 or 4 years later whether something will be built or not. You are quoted 4 years ago talking about buildings that are not built 4 years later, sure as hell looks like it falls into your 3 or 4 year time frame. You are trying to bring Gilbert into this with the Hudson's construction which is ridiculous because we cannot ignore track record, Gilbert has renovated countless buildings downtown and built an apartment building from the ground up and a large successful parking garage which is open at all times and contributes to the neighborhood with ground floor retail and a pedestrian alley. While your hero Ilitch has built 2 heavily subsidized sports venues after letting the historic Tigers Stadium literally fall apart to justify the need for Comerica, they have bought several historic buildings and have torn them down after neglecting to the point of near collapse, they are threatening to tear down even more viable apartment buildings for parking, the parking garages they have built are only open for their events and are completely lacking any ground floor retail. But yeah, keep bringing up the Hudson's site [[which actually has work going on now unlike anything you brought up for Ilitch) like everything else is equal.

[Zads07]

I will say I give EMU Steve a lot of credit for sticking to his guns as we constantly give facts about Ilitch and Olympia for not staying committed to what they say. Not sure if that's bold and proud or ignorance, but I give him credit for it.

But secondly, we all here want to see Detroit succeed, I think that's a given. The reason we bash Ilitch so much is because of the constant bait and switch, the empty promises, the use of taxpayer money to fund stadiums and then do nothing else. We don't like when he goes back on his word, we don't like when promises aren't met. I don't want to speak for the entire group here, but that's how I feel at least.

I really don't care if Ilitch promised to build another 10 buildings, which would normally excite me. With him, I want concrete plans, letting people know where they are at on timelines and updates on their properties, I want to see the old buildings renovated, consistent updates. Not just, 'Hey, we're going to build this and then nothing for months.'

Do you see where we are coming from?

[emu steve]

...But yeah, keep bringing up the Hudson's site [[which actually has work going on now unlike anything you brought up for Ilitch) like everything else is equal.

Hmmmmmmm.

Last I checked the LC headqarters is nearing completion, the WSU school of business is nearing completion, work has started [[right?) on the new parking structure behind the Eddystone.

I assume later today we'll know about other projects which are in the arch stage and ready for work.

Couple points which I think need to be made:

1). Olympia is 'under new management'. Chris, I believe is a builder. Mr. I. was a sports and pizza guy. I doubt Chris will make crazy promises that his father might have. Chris will have his own track record, good or bad.

2). Chris will have his own track record for the Tigers and Wings. I worry about how this will play out. Everyone knows the Wings, Tigers and even Pistons have down cycled. Not good for Detroit sports fans who have to look to the Lions and DCFC for winners. [[Lions and winners in the same sentence seems like an oxymoron). Mr. I knew how to spend big bucks to build a winner. Chris won't.

3). As far as specific buildings, developers plans are always fluid. E.g., I would think the sports medicine building on Woodward is a higher priority than the Eddystone for Olympia.

I mention the Catholic Church I attend. Started a building campaign Feb. '14 to enlarge the parking lot and build a new church. Over 4M has been collected and the parking lot expansion is expected later this year. They keep reworking the Church as the project ballooned from 6M to 12M and financing is an issue.

I believe the proposed completion date was 2017. 2017 is history and not a shovel of dirt has been turned.

P.S. In fairness to our parish, they needed to get 'another rectory' as the old one needs to be demolished for parking. The new one [[house) has a 'sandy' [[right word?) base and needs to be stabilized before the new building can be enlarged to serve as a rectory.