Gerrymandering ballot drive under attack

[Jimaz]

interesting factoid...

Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts. His last name is spoken like Gary.

Therefore it was originally Garymandering. As compared to Jerrymandering.

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2017/02/el...s-gerrymander/

That was mentioned in detroitsgwenivere's John Oliver video at 3:44.

Apparently someone back in history read a hard G as a soft G and the mistake went viral. I'd bet it started before any audio media existed to make the mistake obvious. That is interesting.

[emu steve]

For those who think that an "independent commission" reduces gerrymandering, please look at this picture, and realize these are the districts drawn by said commission.

Also, keep in mind that districts, especially urban ones, are tightly packed with voters [[generally) for only one party. To "smooth out" the results, you'd have to divide those up. And to do that, it will take odd looking districts. The efficiency ratio mentioned in the Wisconsin case is a completely made up statistical concept, and presumes an even distribution of voters across the populace. That is sadly becoming more and more untrue.

Attachment 34524

That is a very nice looking political map. No funky, string like districts, which might have drawn by a 2 year old with a crayon.

I'll try to find the Maryland map which does have one of the worst districts one will find in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryla...ince_2013).tif

Another bad one which includes affluent Chevy Chase, Md and Emmitsburg about 60 miles away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryla...ince_2013).tif

[TKshreve]

A very interesting proposal was trotted out today on 101.9 regarding the re-drawing of the voter districts in our state. The "you split and I'll choose" idea is one I have used many times in my personal life, and it is one of the fairest ways to reach an agreement on just about anything.

The proposal was described as this: The Republicans draft up the state districts how they see fit - then send to the Democrats who in turn choose one district from that map as a "keeper". Then the Democrats draw up the map around that one "keeper" district and send back to the Republicans - who in turn select one additional "keeper" district and redraw the map once again around the selected two districts. This process repeats itself until all districts are carved out.

While this still promotes a two-party electoral system, it certainly subverts any attempt by "non-partisan" independent agencies overseeing the process. I personally like it.

[Canadian Visitor]

Leaving aside all the silly and conspiracy theories posted in this thread, I will leave just 2 thoughts.

1) All political perspectives attempt to establish a system that produces favorable outcomes for their side and agenda. That is true through history, up 'til and including the present. The right does it, the left does it. And both sides continue to do so.

2) Any "independent commission" would be no less partisan and driven by faction and self-interest than having redistricting done by legislatures and courts. The idea of a Perpetually Righteous and Selfless Do-Gooders Committee organized to establish political boundaries is absurdist fiction. The lawyers, business and union lobbies, special interest groups, etc would all attempt to and succeed in getting themselves onto said commission. Who, may I ask, would have the knowledge and wisdom to make such decisions, but has not come to any political opinions of their own? NO ONE. That's who. All a commission would accomplish would be removing itself further from the people by one degree.

The first thing that should be done to render "blind" districts is to stop collecting all demographic and political data. Our representatives should represent people, not types of people.

I'm not sure why you believe this.

Canada has independent redistricting [[riding review and adjustment) processes, which take place every 10 years.

Canadians and all major parties [[4 of them) agree that the system is fair and impartial.

We appoint judge-led commissions [[needs to be said judges here are non-partisan, non-elected), who use criteria not dissimilar to that in California.

Adjustments and proposed, then subject to public comment and review.

Its really rare that they generate controversy.

I see no reason the United States can't manage the same.

[O3H]

Perhaps some remember this thread on GerryMandering

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...g-and-Drainage

Gerrymandering destroys any chance of true representation.
There is zero unity, no united mass of anything,
nothing REGIONAL about it.

[mikehamm45]

The "R" brand is very strong here, proven by how many voted for DJT on that alone... I do not see a fissure in the Republican party as conservatives will still consolidate under one party. A third party will most likely be liberal/progressive and that will destroy an already fragile Democrat brand.

By my accounts, the Democrat party has move further to the center with Republicans moving further to the right. Much of the country [[those who don't vote) tend to be further to the left. Anecdotal of course, depending on age and socioeconomic status.

I would like to see more than one party as I personally do not believe I belong to either. However, I do not see it happening.

What I would be supportive of is compulsory voting, or at least a voting holiday or moving voting day to a weekend to bring out additional voters.

Historically though, bringing less people to the polls has been a Republican staple, and bringing more voters to the poll has been a Democratic move.

I do not see any brave politicians out there trying to 1. educate and inform the populace with civics and 2. using the legislature to increase voter turn out.

[GPCharles]

As I mentioned above, a minority-majority district cannot become a minority-minority district. Thus the goofy districts that include Detroit. As Detroit has lost population it is more and more difficult to retain the minority-majority districts. Those doing the redrawing are forced to work around that restriction.

[Bigb23]

The notion of "us vs them" in American politics is gaining ground. For many its a sport in which people are under the impression that for them to win the other has to loose. Compromise is gone. The zealots of both parties will continue to gain ground and we will all loose.

Well said - thank you.

[hybridy]

Perhaps some remember this thread on GerryMandering

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...g-and-Drainage

Gerrymandering destroys any chance of true representation.
There is zero unity, no united mass of anything,
nothing REGIONAL about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-some-metrics

Democratic candidates have won more or nearly the same number of votes for Michigan’s state house for the last decade – but never once captured a majority of seats.

Our democratic crisis is not just the stuff of academic studies. Who controls our states is increasingly a matter of life and death. Recent history is riddled with examples. For instance, the Flint water crisis began after a gerrymandered Michigan legislature reinstated an emergency manager provision even after voters repealed it in a statewide referendum.

When Republican legislators strip emergency powers from Democratic governors, that’s yet another insidious effect. Our health, safety and well-being – our very lives – are in the hands of our state legislators. It is imperative that our votes decide who they are.

Let’s be clear: Donald Trump’s Big Lie was enabled by gerrymandering. Much of the success of the Big Lie is in its veneer of legitimacy, which has been perpetuated by Republican state legislators in places like Michigan, Georgia and Texas – whose very electoral successes were made possible by gerrymandering. And while the system held, barely, in 2020, there is no guarantee that the same thing happens next time, after another round of extreme redistricting and several more years of surgical laws designed to suppress the vote in closely contested states.

[Richard]

Lol another do this or die campaign,you would think everybody would be dead by now,then throw in the,it is all DTs fault for good measure,because he has determined politics in Michigan for the last 100 years.

Talk about tin foil hat conspiracies,it’s the job of the die hards in each party to tip the scales in their favor,always has been.

Wipe out the opposition on either side and you have a dictatorship,so the game continues,if people want to learn about real oppression,talk to a female in Afghanistan about now,or most in China,Cuba,Venezuela etc.

We have the luxury of being able to have political pissing matches,if one side or the other is unhappy maybe they need to step back and review their game plan,but it is easier to just blame others.

Bad decision making that is revealed in hindsight,does not belong to a singular party.

Our city’s across the country are testament to good intentions gone bad,it was not Gerrymandering or Republicans that confined a large percentage of a certain race into a small section of a city and removed their voice,that was good intentions gone bad on the Democrat side,70 years later they still have not figured out how to rectify that situation,outside of it is the big bad red ones fault.

[hybridy]

Talk about tin foil hat conspiracies, it’s the job of the die hards in each party to tip the scales in their favor, always has been.

Factually false and illogical. Democracy rests upon the principles of majority rule and individual rights. Fair, frequent, and well-managed elections - not dark money PAC's and gerrymandered-to-death districts.

[Richard]

Factually false and illogical. Democracy rests upon the principles of majority rule and individual rights. Fair, frequent, and well-managed elections - not dark money PAC's and gerrymandered-to-death districts.

Really ? You are calling my comment factually false and illogical?

Democracy in the United States
The United States is a representative democracy.
This means that our government is elected by citizens.
Here, citizens vote for their government officials.
These officials represent the citizens’ ideas and concerns in government.
Voting is one way to participate in our democracy.
Citizens can also contact their officials when they want to support or change a law.
Voting in an election and contacting our elected officials are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...u_handouts.pdf


Maybe that is the disconnect,the constitution was not set up for majority rule,it was set up so everybody has a voice,by specifically removing the majority rule from the equation.

If it was intended for majority rule,then states and cities with the highest population would rule the entire country and not everybody would have a voice.

Maybe before you accuse others of being factually false or illogical,do a little research.

They used to teach this basic stuff in school,but now with the advent of the internet it is really not hard.

This harkens back to 2016 when half of the country discovered what the electoral college was,it is dangerous when some participate in a system they have no clue about.

In a round about way,what is referred to as gerrymandering,is breaking up the majority rule as designed by the constitution.

If everybody had an equal voice,you would not see the major cities in the state they are in,because some like to trap people into situations so they can maintain power.

Do you believe the majority rule approves of a city that has 60,000 homeless in the street?

That is not what the majority of that city approves of or wants,that is what the dictatorship control over that city wants,of course they are going to make it look like it is in everybody’s best interests to keep it like it is,so they can retain power.

They are guilty of gerrymandering,because they removed the voice from those 60,000 in the streets,if they had not,they would not be there.

[Ray1936]

Richard, can you ever give a response in one or two sentences like most of us can? Or do you really need to provide a term paper for every topic?

[Richard]

Richard, can you ever give a response in one or two sentences like most of us can? Or do you really need to provide a term paper for every topic?

Sure I could do what you just did,post 3 lines that say nothing just for the sake of saying something.

So you are saying most of you say something without saying anything and that is a badge of honor.

If I am going to contribute at least it will be something of value outside of that what is the point of a discussion?

So sad this country has turn into a bunch of self appointed authoritative dictators,you would probably be more comfortable living in Belarus or Cuba where they also try and regulate what everybody says,and jail those who disagree.

You can just simply just scroll on by,we still have that freedom in this country.

You must be reading my posts,otherwise you would never have given it a second thought.

I was raised to try and be helpfull to others.

Sure I can make it short and sweet.

I got mine,screw everybody else,let em figure it out on their own,I had to.

Apparently I would be in good company then.

If you want to talk about gerrymandering,how about the gerrymandering that took place in coal country that helped Kennedy win the white house.

Notice what happens when once they lock down that vote the tide changes and everything goes to hell,how could you miss it,you lived through it.

At least in a politically divided city one has a 50% chance,which is a hell of a lot better then what most have now.

[Ray1936]

You can just simply just scroll on by,we still have that right in this country.

When I come across a post a yard and a half long, that's exactly what I do. Just sayin'.

[Richard]

When I come across a post a yard and a half long, that's exactly what I do. Just sayin'.

you do not,like I said,if you did you would not have given it a second thought and made a post about it.

If you want to have a discussion without saying anything,I can send you a bottle of bourbon and a freshly rolled Cuban so at least we can get some enjoyment out of it.


But, while some believe typos are more sinful than an attempt to share truth [[and much more fruitful to point out than any accuracy of the message)… and other think vaccines will save us all [[and those that don’t get them are killing grandma)… and a section believes everything will be fine as long as their job isn’t jeopardized [[and those that were unable to sustain the COVID lockdown didn’t need to be in business anyway) … we will never come to the aid of our fellow man, let alone our country, and forget about ever coming to the knowledge of the truth.


That is your mayor talking,longer then six minutes

https://themarshallreport.wordpress....oblem-at-hand/

So now it is on you - explain the constitution and how our system is actually based in 3 lines or less.

Unless you just figure screw em,I am okay,until we run out of water anyways.

I never had much schooling,not ashamed of it either,but I learned about life from people that were many year’s ahead of me,they taught me well because they spoke from experience,and that is nothing that can be bought at a school or a book.

What happens to a person when they get to the point of saying - fuck em and anybody else that makes an attempt to help others,let me spend my time making sure others suffer life’s challenges just as I have?

If some random post on the internet placed by some random stranger in a moment in time that is meaningless in the larger picture triggers you then you really need to come out of retirement and get a job.

You have a lot more to offer then a measly state your case in 3 sentences or less.

just sayin’

If one person pulls one sentence out of my book that helps them understand something,I have accomplished something,if the other 99% get pissed off over having to scroll past a post - tough crap.

At least I cared enough to take the time to make the attempt.

O look over there the bad guys are trying to steal your voice with that lethal gerrymandering,just shut up and get back into your ghetto,we will take care of you as we always have as long as you keep voting for us.

Lethal when you have to have your kids sleep on the floor so they can live through the night,lethal is when you allow drugs to destroy neighborhoods and generations of broken families,lethal is when you trap generations in block after block with no hope for the future. on and on and on

But hey,that guy over there that wants to redraw the lines so you can also be included in a better life,he is your enemy,we are your friend because we give you free food and housing,we completely strip you of any sense of pride or self respect in the process but that is a small price to pay so you do not have to look at the red ones.

Besides we have over 50 years experience at this,look around you,cannot you see what a wonderful job we are doing while looking out for your best interests.

Gerrymandering is not the threat,removing the peoples voice to say,hey it’s been 50 years,our situation kinda sucks here,how about we try something different,is the threat.

You are not giving people a voice,you are trapping them into a tin can and closing the lid so they stay trapped,generation after generation,and it shows.

There are good Democrat leaders and there are good Republican leaders,what a novel idea it would be to actually let the people decide.

Went from ruin porn straight into scare porn yippee.

Hows that one Ray?

[Gistok]

Richard, Ray1936 [a retired Detroit Police Officer for 35+ years] has been on this forum for longer than most posters here. He likes one sentence posts, because he doesn't use the "why post 100 words, when 1000 will do" mentality for good posting.

He like so many forumers find your long winded random Google cut/pastes a waste of reading time.

So how do you confirm his point? By posting a way off the topic Word Press document whose only remote connectivity to Ray1936 was that Ray1936 lives one town over from Las Vegas, whose mayor switched political parties.

However ANY Word Press document is nothing more than purely a Blog that anyone in the world can create using the Word Press free software. Word Press documents are several levels below Wikipedia as a reliable source for any argument or discussion to prove a point.

[Richard]

^ you like taking things at face value then twisting it around into your own perceived meaning.

I am well aware of who Ray is,where he lives and his contribution to society and the city,I found that out because I took the time to actually read his posts,some have also been lengthy,if I had not taken the time to read them I would not have known that.

Gistok - when you get the notion,you have also presented long posts.

The way I read it is people do not have a problem with long posts,as long as they are presenting them or it is content that they agree with.

The link I posted was an example of an entire article presented by the media where it took many paragraphs to get the point across.

Newspapers and online content include entire articles that are many paragraphs long.

It was your decision to take that example and twist it into a meaning it was not.

You have responded to my posts by claiming- bullshit - you never provided your facts to back up your bullshit claims of dispute.

Because you said it,it was so.

Just like in this reply,you could really care less about content just being anal retentive about the length.

You obsession with time is irrelevant,what have you actually contributed in that time.

In your mind,complaining about others doing what you have also done in the past is normal.

You are talking about subjects that relate to life and death and discussions about policies that change or alter cities for generations to come and the best you can come up with is - your post was to long and it bothered me.

This is why somebody could be laying in the street dying and there will be a crowd around them with their cell phones out filming it instead of actually helping them.

Peoole looking to make themselves relevant at the expense of others.


Why do people post links,because the content is to long to post in the thread.

When you post a link,if you are interested in an actual discussion,you should also provide content that is relevant to the link and what you feel about it,so people do not waste their time clicking on a link that they could care less about.

Gistoc - you constantly have posted Google links,have been for 22 years,so where do you get off saying or using that as a pathetic cut down towards others ?

You actually post more opinions then actual facts including your own,you know what they say about opinions.

If your own house is not in order,it’s usually not best to attempt to school others,everybody else can also see through those glass windows.


So why are you constantly going so far out of your way in or order to be a regulator of information and post length?

I am thinking that the only explanation is either they scare you with information that you do not want to hear or you are aggressively trying to keep others from a different view point,because if they actually think for themselves they are no longer trapped in your lockstep and you will no longer have superior control over them.

• Critical thinking has seven critical features: being inquisitive and curious, being open-minded to different sides, being able to think systematically, being analytical, being persistent to truth, being confident about critical thinking itself, and lastly, being mature.

put that in your Google

[CassTechGrad]

Because the Republicans don't really believe in democracy. Or at least don't believe in it for certain groups of citizens. As their ongoing nation-wide initiative to disenfrachise or suppress non-white voters and their continued outrageous, and provably false, claims [[lies, that is) about non-white voter "fraud" clearly show.

Pritzker Signs New Legislative Maps Into Law
Northern Public Radio | By Hannah Meisel
Published June 4, 2021 at 1:13 PM CDT

Illinois Governor JB Pritzker on Friday signed new legislative district maps Democrats pushed through the General Assembly a week ago after promising as a candidate that he would veto maps drawn by politicians. Democrats approved the new maps on partisan lines over objections from community advocacy organizations who had begged Democrats to delay the mapmaking process until Illinois gets official 2020 Census data. The majority party instead forged ahead with aggregated data from the Census Bureau.

[Zacha341]

Absolutely! Worse, too often truth and priorities [our admin refuse to attend to if doing so affirms the apposing party] are lost in the 'us vs them' box.

Well said - thank you.

The notion of "us vs them" in American politics is gaining ground. For many its a sport in which people are under the impression that for them to win the other has to loose. Compromise is gone. The zealots of both parties will continue to gain ground and we will all loose.

[CassTechGrad]

I don't know how anyone can support the Republican party anymore.

“How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him”
05/09/2018 Bruno Gonçalves Rios
“It’s always nice, now and then, to remind people in the press and in academia of Pauline Kael’s famous [[or infamous) quote referring to George McGovern’s loss to Richard Nixon in the 1972 presidential election. Apparently, it is a misquote, but I don’t think that it matters all that much.
The fact is that too many people in the press and in academia live in a leftist cultural bubble. This bubble made many people blind to Trump’s favoritism in the last US presidential election.”

[Richard]

Pritzker Signs New Legislative Maps Into Law
Northern Public Radio | By Hannah Meisel
Published June 4, 2021 at 1:13 PM CDT

Illinois Governor JB Pritzker on Friday signed new legislative district maps Democrats pushed through the General Assembly a week ago after promising as a candidate that he would veto maps drawn by politicians. Democrats approved the new maps on partisan lines over objections from community advocacy organizations who had begged Democrats to delay the mapmaking process until Illinois gets official 2020 Census data. The majority party instead forged ahead with aggregated data from the Census Bureau.

Illinois lost nearly 80,000 residents in 2020, marking the seventh straight year of population decline, according to new estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau.
Illinois’ population is now 12,587,530, a decline of almost 2 percent since the beginning of the decade. Over that time period, West Virginia was the only state to see a higher rate of population loss.

https://www.cmap.illinois.gov/update...ss-2020-census

Illinois is what Detroit was on a state wide scale.

People vote with their feet and nothing says goodbye louder then over regulation and high taxation ,because when everybody leaves the burden falls on the few.

The answer is to ramp up efforts to do even more of what caused us to be in the predicament in the first place.


It makes it hard to blame others when you are your own worst enemy.

[Gistok]

Richard everything you post has a long time getting to the point... which is why people have pointed out they don't make it past the first paragraph. And as for Word Press links... they generally are not worth reposting.

[Richard]

Richard everything you post has a long time getting to the point... which is why people have pointed out they don't make it past the first paragraph. And as for Word Press links... they generally are not worth reposting.

apparently you have nothing else to do,so quit bitching about it,grab a cup of coffee and relax.

Here’s a novel idea - in the future dispute the content and not the provider,you seem to enjoy posing links from known false news sources such as CNN,MSNBC etc.

Or pick the sites that only tell and support what you want to hear,so I do not place the blame entirely on you,some are just easily manipulated.

Good thing is,you are not my wife,because you sure like to nag a lot.

Life is good,you are not 17 years old storming a beach and not knowing if you are going to live or not in the next few minutes and not in Afghanistan on your knees waiting to be executed.

In the bigger picture of the world,some may call your concerns a bit petty.

[Don K]

Mmmm...it seems the topic here is representative democracy, and in my opinion a situation where a minority of voters can consistently elect a majority of representatives is not representative. I'm hopeful that the commission can rectify this situation in Michigan.