But when Oakland County did it to Detroit for 50 years, it was OK, right?

[313WX]

I think the city missed a huge opportunity with FoxConn. They could have given them enough vacant land to build on and offered more than enough new employees.

Michigan missed the boat with Volkswagen too [[because of a very stupid and completely avoidable reason).

That said, Amazon HQ2 is going to be like Volkswagen x50 or FoxConn x100. Hopefully, we can get it right this time.

[ArchNigel]

The northwesternmost areas of Oakland County also [[and albeit more so due to distance from Detroit) have to benefit from a strong Flint, which may not even be possible until the water situation is dealt with.

As someone who currently resides in the Southern Flint Burbs/Northern Detroit Exurbs of Southern Genesee County, I am in complete agreement. When people ask me about by general civic boosterism towards Flint, this is the reason why [[helping to create a stronger metro area). Also, Flint is starting to show some signs of recovery from the water crisis, but it's still about 10-15 years behind on the recovery track from where Detroit is ATM. It will take some time until Downtown Flint is quite the destination it once was, or could be.

[Kevgoblue]

In my time there was an awful lot of productive mid-range manufacturing along streets like Lyndon, Fullerton, Meyers, Wyoming, Schaefer, etc. I don't see that ever coming back and until or unless it does, the surrounding neighborhoods won't either.

Thank you. The 500 lb gorilla in the room that no one seems to talk about. Jobs. We have a lack of jobs in the area. And the city has a lack of [[appropriately educated) applicants for most jobs that are available.
Back in Detroit's days of being prosperous, the region was a mecca for those willing to get up at 5am and put in a hard days' work in a job that required no to minimal skills. Unfortunately those days are gone.
The growth of downtown / midtown is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. The region is just shifting jobs from one area to another. In order to attract new jobs it is vital that a large number of Detroit's residents acquire the requisite skillsets to be competitive in the 2017 workforce.
Continued growth in the city is merely pushing the lesser skilled people further into the inner ring suburbs.

[Honky Tonk]

Thank you. The 500 lb gorilla in the room that no one seems to talk about. Jobs. We have a lack of jobs in the area. And the city has a lack of [[appropriately educated) applicants for most jobs that are available.
Back in Detroit's days of being prosperous, the region was a mecca for those willing to get up at 5am and put in a hard days' work in a job that required no to minimal skills. Unfortunately those days are gone.
The growth of downtown / midtown is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. The region is just shifting jobs from one area to another. In order to attract new jobs it is vital that a large number of Detroit's residents acquire the requisite skillsets to be competitive in the 2017 workforce.
Continued growth in the city is merely pushing the lesser skilled people further into the inner ring suburbs.

Well we are getting a fashion hub/campus, supposedly.

[mikehamm45]

I understand the claim of hypocrisy... but the "natural" order of things is to have a strong central city and supporting suburbs... we have had an "unnatural" donut metropolis for years, and many people like myself hated it.

[Tig3rzhark]

I understand the claim of hypocrisy... but the "natural" order of things is to have a strong central city and supporting suburbs... we have had an "unnatural" donut metropolis for years, and many people like myself hated it.

And to this day, I hate it. Which is why new leadership is needed in order for metro Detroit to move into the future.

[SammyS]

I understand the claim of hypocrisy... but the "natural" order of things is to have a strong central city and supporting suburbs... we have had an "unnatural" donut metropolis for years, and many people like myself hated it.

Totally agree. The suburbs, with the exception of a few, will soon be regarded the "cheap" places to live. This transformation is reminiscent of the movie Trading Places. Part 1 complete. We are now entering part 2 reversal towards the full cycle. Yes, it may take decades to complete the full reversal but just look at what 5 years had already accomplished. Midtown now rivals Birmingham in $/sq ft. Back then, midtown was half price and Birmingham has barely ticked up 10% over the same period.

[Bham1982]

Totally agree. The suburbs, with the exception of a few, will soon be regarded the "cheap" places to live. This transformation is reminiscent of the movie Trading Places. Part 1 complete. We are now entering part 2 reversal towards the full cycle. Yes, it may take decades to complete the full reversal but just look at what 5 years had already accomplished. Midtown now rivals Birmingham in $/sq ft. Back then, midtown was half price and Birmingham has barely ticked up 10% over the same period.

The delusion is strong here.

In Birmingham, small colonials can go for $1 million+. Practically every condo downtown goes for $1 million+. In contrast, Midtown barely has a for-sale housing market and median home price in Detroit is around 45k, about what most people pay on landscaping in the newer suburban homes.

Detroit is still, by far, the cheapest place to get a home anywhere in Southeast Michigan and basically doesn't have for sale market, excepting of outside investors and a few niche properties. This is the strongest RE market in Metro Detroit in decades, and there still isn't a unit of housing built downtown/midtown that doesn't come with extensive govt. subsidies.

[iheartthed]

The delusion is strong here.

In Birmingham, small colonials can go for $1 million+. Practically every condo downtown goes for $1 million+. In contrast, Midtown barely has a for-sale housing market and median home price in Detroit is around 45k, about what most people pay on landscaping in the newer suburban homes.

Detroit is still, by far, the cheapest place to get a home anywhere in Southeast Michigan and basically doesn't have for sale market, excepting of outside investors and a few niche properties. This is the strongest RE market in Metro Detroit in decades, and there still isn't a unit of housing built downtown/midtown that doesn't come with extensive govt. subsidies.

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

[Tig3rzhark]

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

Currently, little is being built outside of downtown and midtown. There's always a press release of a plan to build something outside of that area in the future, but there's never any guarantee that this is going to happen.

[313WX]

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

Some developers are completing a few subdivision and office park projects that had stalled during Autopocalypse and the Great Recession.

But other than that, you're right. When the metro area is stagnant [[thus one's not going to get a huge return on their investment) and lending standards are extremely tight, there's no good reason for developers and companies to pour a ton of money into the area.

Downtown / Midtown are sort of unique in that they've been so devoid of development that they have plenty of upside for growth in spite of the region's stagnant population, as they normalize to where other CBDs stand in terms of health.

[Johnnny5]

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

There's a ton of commercial and residential construction going on out here around Wixom and Milford. I'm not sure what these developers plan on doing with all of it, but apparently it's going up either way.

[mtburb]

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

There's a few major commercial and residential projects ongoing Downriver.

[Bham1982]

I don't think they're really building much anywhere in Metro Detroit outside of downtown and midtown... Are they?

What? Go out to South Lyon. There are thousands and thousands of homes going up, going for 400-500k a pop.

There are probably more 400k+ homes u/c in Lyon Township than in all of Wayne County, and that's one semi-rural township.

And Northville and Novi are nowhere near built out. There are thousands of homes permitted for those communities, basically all at 500k+.

Western Oakland County is the fastest growing part of the metro right now. Lyon Township has more permitted homes and population growth than any community in Michigan.

[Bham1982]

Some developers are completing a few subdivision and office park projects that had stalled during Autopocalypse and the Great Recession.

If you think there are just a "few subdivisions going up", I invite you to drive 10 Mile Road through Novi and Lyon Township. I would wager there are about 15 subdivisions u/c between Beck Road in Novi and Milford Road in Lyon Township, alongside schools, shopping centers and the like.

That whole area went from semi-rural to nonstop McMansions in the last five years, and basically every remaining piece of vacant land has a sign indicating new homes are coming soon.

And most of these developments aren't slapped together crap. You have Toll Brothers [[the nation's largest luxury homebuilder, with huge presence in Manhattan and other high-cost locations) and other very high end builders. There are plenty of people who want new construction but can't afford new builds in Bloomfield or Birmingham.

[313WX]

If you think there are just a "few subdivisions going up", I invite you to drive 10 Mile Road through Novi and Lyon Township.

Nah, I'm good. I'll soon be relocating to a city and metro area that's experiencing *REAL* growth.

[SammyS]

If you think there are just a "few subdivisions going up", I invite you to drive 10 Mile Road through Novi and Lyon Township. I would wager there are about 15 subdivisions u/c between Beck Road in Novi and Milford Road in Lyon Township, alongside schools, shopping centers and the like.

That whole area went from semi-rural to nonstop McMansions in the last five years, and basically every remaining piece of vacant land has a sign indicating new homes are coming soon.

And most of these developments aren't slapped together crap. You have Toll Brothers [[the nation's largest luxury homebuilder, with huge presence in Manhattan and other high-cost locations) and other very high end builders. There are plenty of people who want new construction but can't afford new builds in Bloomfield or Birmingham.

$100M City Modern development is not real?

[iheartthed]

What? Go out to South Lyon. There are thousands and thousands of homes going up, going for 400-500k a pop.

There are probably more 400k+ homes u/c in Lyon Township than in all of Wayne County, and that's one semi-rural township.

Are you sure? South Lyon doesn't even have 12,000 residents [[fewer than midtown). Seems unlikely that they are building thousands and thousands of half million dollar homes there.

[archfan]

Are you sure? South Lyon doesn't even have 12,000 residents [[fewer than midtown). Seems unlikely that they are building thousands and thousands of half million dollar homes there.

It's really all of Lyon Township, not just the city of South Lyon. It seems like there's a new sub every time I get out there.

[Bham1982]

Are you sure? South Lyon doesn't even have 12,000 residents [[fewer than midtown). Seems unlikely that they are building thousands and thousands of half million dollar homes there.

It's Lyon Township technically, not South Lyon [[which is a small, older town with probably limited new construction).

Yeah, there are thousands of new units. Drive 10 mile. 100-200 home subdivisions going up on both side of the street, for miles.

[mikehamm45]

"There are probably more 400k+ homes u/c in Lyon Township than in all of Wayne County, and that's one semi-rural township."

I think this is what makes me the most upset, like it really bothers me... I guess you are either anti-sprawl or not.

[iheartthed]

It's Lyon Township technically, not South Lyon [[which is a small, older town with probably limited new construction).

Yeah, there are thousands of new units. Drive 10 mile. 100-200 home subdivisions going up on both side of the street, for miles.

Even then Lyon Township + South Lyon apparently has less than 25K residents. It just seems very wrong if there are thousands of houses under construction in that area, and this is not a statement about sprawl.

Something seems very odd about a small sparsely populated suburb in a stagnant growth metro area adding as many houses as NYC did in 2009.

[archfan]

Even then Lyon Township + South Lyon apparently has less than 25K residents. It just seems very wrong if there are thousands of houses under construction in that area, and this is not a statement about sprawl.

Something seems very odd about a small sparsely populated suburb in a stagnant growth metro area adding as many houses as NYC did in 2009.

Lyon Township issued 343 single family home permits in 2015. They were in the top 5 for apartment units permitted, but somewhere below Canton's 397 permits. It's not clear what the relationship is between issuing a permit, and finishing a home, since Lyon issued 61 permits, but 206 homes were built in 2011.

[Wesley Mouch]

...
And the local fakenews cheerleader media don't help. If you didn't know better you would think Detroit looks like Brooklyn or San Francisco these days. You would think there are 50-60 floor condos going up on every other block, mass gentrification, packed pedestrian corridors and the like.

So after decade of telling everyone from elsewhere that not all of Detroit looks so bad, I have to switch to saying not all of Detroit looks so good?