Possible New Life for Michigan Central Station? Ford Motor Co. a Buyer? YES!

[Richard]

Regardless of who gets that train station in the end, there's still a train tunnel to Canada that could be used for passenger travel.

VIA Canada provides rail services from Windsor to Toronto. It would really benefit Detroit well if VIA Canada could provide this service without having to catch the Tunnel Bus across and catching the train from there.

Also, it would be in Matty's interest to sell the MCS because he is losing respect as a businessman not taking care of it.

I've traveled passed that train tunnel to Canada and I've yet to see it used at all.

What is the difference when you look at MTS and Fisher body verses Packard,Kelvinator and many others,at the very minimum those two are still as original structures and not completely trashed.

If it had remained open to the elements,not meaning the weather,would the conversation be about demolition costs and the sadness of losing another part of the cities history?

[MicrosoftFan]

Everyone is missing the point about rail service. The station building doesn't need to be used for a station. It's old and outdated and now better suited for other uses. A new station could be built on top of the existing tracks, with a connection to the existing building which would consist of a retail/entertainment base with offices on top.

The reason why a station makes sense here, sometime in the future, is that the tracks lead to a tunnel to Canada. If there was ever a major wave of investment in highspeed rail, connecting Canada's largest population centers to the midwestern United States only makes sense.

As for commuter services, there really isn't an optimal place for a single central station in Detroit but I will concede that New Center is probably better positioned.

I would agree that a small station building would work best on top of the old tracks. Similar to chicago, the old building is rarely used, just as a waiting room, whereas the tracks, food court, offices etc are in an underground concourse. It would make the MCS more appealing to have train access.

And yes, nobody is saying that the building should be used solely for rail service.

[WALD0123]

Agree with several posters here in that a very small portion of MCS would ever be used for a train station, probably ever again. In this scenario, Ford uses the bulk of the building for its offices and whatever else it has envisioned there. A portion of the ground floor a likely a new building in the rear would be used for a train transport.

Amtrak service up to the suburbs would be possible by reversing direction and picking the line back up, adds a few minutes but not a huge deal. Again, a commuter line to MCS or New Center is still not particularly viable for most folks, would be better off using a bus [[perhaps Ford's upcoming Chariot service) directly downtown.

Lastly, I disagree that Ford would have no interest in some semblance of train service there. The potential commuter line would directly connect to their HQ in Dearborn as well as their holdings in West Dearborn. They're a "mobility" company these days and this connection is awfully direct.

[bust]

The potential commuter line would directly connect to their HQ in Dearborn as well as their holdings in West Dearborn. They're a "mobility" company these days and this connection is awfully direct.

I don't suggest Ford would operate a train nor that if one were implemented it should use the Conrail tracks.

But...

In addition to connecting MCS and their Dearborn HQ, those tracks continue West past the American Center for Mobility [[autonomous car research center) at Willow Run, EMU, and within a few blocks of Ford's new MCity autonomous car research facility in Ann Arbor.

Personally, I expect since Ford is in the business of cars, cars are what they'll use to connect their various locations. And it would be great for internally testing new technology.

But I hope increased activity along this corridor will inspire public investment in complementary rail transit. Whether on existing rails or new ones.

Connecting Canada is a great idea. Otherwise, new tracks along the roadways would be better, if more costly. Both to avoid sharing tracks with freight and to be able to connect all the right dots, including DTW.

[Dream]

To see what can be done to retrofit/renovate an old large building check out the ProMedica Headquarters in downtown Toledo. ProMedica did a wonderful job utilizing an abandoned Daniel Burnham designed 1895 steam plant to create a modern office building.

[emu steve]

Daniel Howes with better wordsmithing than me, indicates yes, finally, we are seeing instances of moving beyond downtown, Midtown, etc. to include two other neighborhoods which have real potential.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ital/33194001/

[expatriate]

In his Crains interview Moroun said: “It would be really cool if some Fortune 500 company made it their headquarters in Detroit — and I wouldn’t turn down that opportunity,”

Might not Ford be just that company?

Also the San Francisco Ferry Building was a similar cavernous space that was rejuvenated with farmers markets, food emporiums, and restaurants to make it one of the most popular destinations in that city. It also houses offices on upper floors that only add to the vitality of the building.

[Hypestyles]

there should be locally owned restaurants inside. Diverse cuisine is necessary.

[Richard]

115 room hotel with each room 365 sqft it takes 41,975 sqft @22.5 million to build.

Round it up to 50,000 sqft per leval is 275' square,it is narrower between the towers so it is a rectangle box abouve the tracks.

Shopping mall is 8 million to build 56,000 sqft,drop it down to fit the 50,000 sqft and that gives you 2 retailers with 20,000sft per store,which is a Target urban model and 4 smaller stores.

That is two levels

4 levels of 861 sqft residential units

1 leval for diverse crusine restaurants from budget minded to formal.

1 leval for entertainment,movie theater,Game Center etc.

The leval directly abouve the boarding tunnels closed to the public for freight operations connected to the rail lines

Levels abouve would be parking decks

It was posted that it would take $250 million to rehabilitate 5 levals of the station,for the same money or less the new addition has been built but made to look like it was built that way originally with all new systems.

In the original structure,the actual train related aspect remains the same as if it was back in the day,the center section would remain open public space on all levals,because of the rear addition the view would be to the front.

Along with useing the public space,kiosk space would be made advailable for rental,arts and crafts,jewelry,or what ever a local independent wants to sell.

So it remains a train station with freight capacity to appease the rail holders and also become a public gathering center that includes dining,entertainment,and living facilities,a destination.

It also breaks it down to where each level pays for itself and gives a diverse return.

Then it boils down to funding,it could be done as a co-op or from a long term investment,with the returns coming from rentals on every leval.

That makes it more feasible actualy adding more sqft cheaper with new build while retaining the original structure.

As it stands it seems hard to put the same amount of funds in and not see the return.

[Burnsie]

Some background to fill in some gaps in the thread, some of which has been gone over before here but is useful for newcomers.

The tunnel is still used several times a day by freight trains. One of the twin bores was enlarged in 1994. This allows international-size double stack containers. It is not possible to enlarge it further to accommodate domestic double stacks. The other bore was not enlarged and is out of service. Canadian Pacific’s plans to build a new tunnel were shelved indefinitely in June 2015.


Amtrak, MDOT and SEMTA in the mid-‘80s looked at building a replacement station at the Joe Louis parking garage, which was designed for such an addition. Maybe if the plan hadn’t included a bunch of commuter trains also, it would have been simple enough to happen. This would have been a return full circle, since the pre-1913 MC Depot was on Third St. by the river.


There originally was a streetcar terminal at the depot, on the east side where passengers later parked. Conrail sold the building in Dec. 1985 to Kaybee Corp. and moved its last employees out in Oct. 1987, according to the Free Press, 12/31/87. Until then it had its western regional offices and 200 workers there. They relocated to a new building in Dearborn.


Amtrak moved from MC Depot to some prefab trailers next door. It didn’t leave the station because the route was changed—that didn’t happen until 1994. It left because the building was decaying and Amtrak, the sole tenant after Conrail left, didn’t want to shoulder all the operating costs by itself. Kaybee wanted to fix it up but didn’t have the money. In that last winter, Kaybee wouldn’t even turn on the heat, and the Amtrak agents had to rely on space heaters.

[Burnsie]

To bring into focus some of what went on in the Michigan Central Depot, here are the New York Central RR officers based there in May 1945, according to the Official Railway Guide. New York Central controlled the MC RR for decades, formally leasing it in 1930. I wrote down the names in a hurry so some typos might have crept in. Some of these officials had large staffs under them. The Detroit Division superintendent had structure engineers, blueprint drafters, etc. The Accounting Dept. had platoons of clerks.

Operating Department:

C.R. Jellinghaus, Vice President and General Manager [[one of about six regional vice presidents in the New York Central system)
F. McElroy, Asst. GM
M.R. Benson, Supt. of Equipment
R.F. DeForest, Supt. Detroit Div.
R.H. Hanson, Supt. Freight Transportation
H.M. Senff, Supt. Passenger Transportation
C.E. Baxter, Supt. Telegraph

Law Dept:

J.J. Danhof, General Counsel
W.A. Alfs, General Attorney
W.J. Holden, Chief Claim Agent
G.F. Wheeler, Freight Claim Agent
Ralph B. Rice, Real Estate & Tax Agent

Accounting Dept: [[I believe these operations served a New York Central system-wide purpose, not just for the MC lines)

J.B. Taylor, Auditor of Disbursements
W.J. Daeschner, Auditor Freight Accounts
C.H. Maurice, Auditor Passenger Accounts

Freight Traffic Dept.:

Detroit Territory [[the Michigan Central RR, north of the New York Central Toledo-Elkhart line, from Grand Beach, MI to but not including Buffalo)

O.R. Bromley, Freight Traffic Manager
E.W. Brunck, Asst. Freight Traffic Mgr
L.J. Brinkman, General Freight Agent
J.D. Switzer, Asst. General Freight Agent
J.L. Meehan, Division Freight Agent
Glen Darling, General Agent, Freight Department
G.E. Wheeler, Asst. Coal Fright Agent
H.L. Willard, Coal Freight Agent
E.F. Leuchtmann, Asst. General Freight Agent
O.B. Price, Live Stock Agent and Agricultural Representative
[[didn’t get name) Industrial Agent

[Lowell]

Terrific Charlie LeDuff interview/story about Moroun and son in today's Freep. Interesting and a good read on the differences and commonalities.

"I'm different from my dad. He was born poor with a chip on his shoulder. I was born rich. He'd bang on the table and take the position that he's 'entitled to it under the law, so you've got to give it to me.' I'm trying to build a bridge, so I need friends. My father's friends? They're all gone, practically."

Coleman A. Young, Jimmy Hoffa, the Fisher Brothers, those were the friends and contemporaries of Matty Moroun; the hard-fisted titans of a long-ago Detroit; men who built political and business empires in a city of belching smoke and vice that cranked out automobiles and war machines

"The people I passed through with are long gone," the old man says. "Our way of doing business was different."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...oun/433641002/

[emu steve]

One of the big things about MCS would be to create a 'land rush' [[or gold rush) as folks go crazy buying land, buildings, houses, etc. in the area.

https://twitter.com/crainsdetroit/status/978024087950909440

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...town-gold-rush

[emu steve]

I'm a little surprised by this [[3365 Michigan Ave.) because it is on the 'other' side of 96, but it does show interest along Michigan Ave. West of MCS.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...d-in-4-million

It's still early, but Michigan Ave. in Corktown showing some real life.

[ABetterDetroit]

I would be willing to bet that this is the transport system that Ford wants to bring to the MCS in a big way.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ford-...erprise-2018-1

[Hypestyles]

so with the big deal leak that happened, and now... nothing? Oh well...

[Zads07]

so with the big deal leak that happened, and now... nothing? Oh well...

When leaks happen to the press that doesn't necessarily mean it's close to having an announcement. As stated in some of the articles, an announcement could come next month or in May. Give it some space man, just because nothing has happened in a week doesn't mean nothing will happen.

[Zads07]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...down/33453821/

This editorial deserves to be ripped to shreds. This is the kind of leadership that led Detroit to tear down it's beautiful buildings in the past 30 years.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...down/33453821/

This editorial deserves to be ripped to shreds. This is the kind of leadership that led Detroit to tear down it's beautiful buildings in the past 30 years.

Ripping it to shreds is too kind, I think. I'd like to see it shoved somewhere.....

As we all know, there are literally dozens of formerly abandoned grand structures around town that are seeing life once again. So many that were considered "hopeless" for a long, long time. Even the Packard is seeing activity and if anyplace seemed hopeless its that one. If the MCS was to be torn down, that land would be left vacant for who knows how long?

With windows in, its not nearly the Ruin Porn place it was.

[Honky Tonk]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/op...down/33453821/

This editorial deserves to be ripped to shreds. This is the kind of leadership that led Detroit to tear down it's beautiful buildings in the past 30 years.

"Man Bites Dog..."

[mikeg19]

I read the article twice. I honestly couldn't understand why the editorial advocated for tearing it down. I understand there is a frustration that nothing has actually been done with MCS, but tearing it down is so shortsighted.

[Richard]

It was almost copy and paste from the argument that was published to gain support in order to raze Packard.Lazy

I guess it is easier to write about the obvious ills then it is to write about the good things that are happening,that will actually promote the city in a good light,which in turn helps take care of the ills.

[gnome]

A Modest Proposal methinks.

[Honky Tonk]

Man bites dog [[journalism)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The phrase man bites dog is a shortened version of an aphorism in journalism which describes how an unusual, infrequent event [[such as a man biting a dog) is more likely to be reported as news than an ordinary, everyday occurrence with similar consequences, such as a dog biting a man.


My point being the writer probably doesn't actually condone tearing down the MCS building. I think it was a slow news day, and he/they wanted to stir up some controversy and sell some "papers".

[emu steve]

Bottom line from this Crain's article:

Ford is apparently acquiring properties in Corktown in large numbers.

The article has a map showing properties Ford is attempting to secure. Going big west of Tiger Stadium.

Ford is apparently also reconsidering what they plan to do in Dearborn.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article..._medium=social