Ontario Gov't to Open Marijuana Stores

[Canadian Visitor]

I'm sure the $10 cost for Canada is just an estimate. Weed is sold at different prices for different uses. No way you could have a standard price. It also doesn't sound like there is any provisions for growing your own for private use. That's huge in Oregon.

Growing for personal use is provided for [[4 plants), though there is an odd height limit....something on the order of 3ft.

[Zacha341]

Looks like they're not going to allow them on every corner as was the initial Detroit roll-out in [[summer 2015) before regulations were considered/ enforced.

[Wesley Mouch]

I...
I'm 100% certain the gov't will not subsidize the price, as they are very much after net $$$ here....

Its a great world where the government seeks net $$$.

[Canadian Visitor]

Its a great world where the government seeks net $$$.

Not to suggest for one moment that gov't programs in Canada or elsewhere in the world all go off without a hitch. [[definitely not true); but it strikes me as near-uniquely American to view gov't as intrinsically incompetent.

In Canada, the CPP [[our version of social security) is in surplus; and projected to be for the next 75 years. Its investments are overseen the CPPIB [[investment board) and professional staff, who buy real estate, shopping malls, toll-roads and more around the world).

Gov't monopolies almost always make money and a fair bit, be that the liquor business or energy grid companies.

Germany[[the state) owns stakes in many major businesses in that country.

While Norway put away almost all its oil royalties/profits into a sovereign wealth fund that now has 1.2 Trillion in it. That's for a country with a population of only 5 million.

Its a choice to hire competent people, train them properly, make appointments that aren't particularly partisan, and empower those appointments to do their jobs.

The notion that you have a federal regulation prohibiting medicaid/medicare from negotiating lower drug prices is utterly mind boggling. Then people complain government isn't efficient. It can be, if you let it, and you demand it.

[rex]

Good for Canada.

Our idiot Attorney General wants to waste billions and endless lives in a new "War on Drugs" and even wants to prosecute medical marijuana. U.S. is hurtling backward, thanks to idiot voters.

yup and Trump just endorsed Schutte. We continue to slide

[Bong-Man]

9 years ago the citizens of Michigan voted to approve the legalization of medical marijuana. 9 years later we still wait for OUR representatives to properly enact the will of the people. By next year, there's a very good chance the legalization of recreational marijuana will be voted on and approved by the citizens of Michigan. If the Republican led legislature continues to drag it's feet, don't be a bit surprised if this issue becomes a defining one of the Fall '18 election in Michigan, especially when it comes to voter turnout at the polls. Considering the past efforts of one party to negate voter turnout, and their current and consistent neanderthal views on this issue, that Party may suddenly find itself in front of a runaway train.

As for Jeff Sessions, he's literally blowing smoke. I base that on the three States I visited and how the people there themselves have responded to this issue. Once California successfully joins the cause, States are gonna fall like dominos. Sessions and others of his ilk are convinced the opiate crisis is a deterrent to this issue, while most, and especially millennials, can see right through that garbage pile from their own personal experience.

[Wesley Mouch]

Not to suggest for one moment that gov't programs in Canada or elsewhere in the world all go off without a hitch. [[definitely not true); but it strikes me as near-uniquely American to view gov't as intrinsically incompetent.

True. Its a different choice. We see the government as necessary, but we prefer individual liberty as the engine of wealth. Right from our founding documents, we designed limited government -- since our experience with British rule wasn't [[mostly) positive. Sometimes we got excellent tea back then.

The American model has failings [[definitely true) -- but overall seems to work well. I don't see that looking around the world, governments are better at providing for their citizens than citizens are themselves -- given the liberty to make their own choices. I do, however, see a role for good government to be engaged in communities. But I don't want them to have a monopoly on the entire economy.

In Canada, the CPP [[our version of social security) is in surplus; and projected to be for the next 75 years. Its investments are overseen the CPPIB [[investment board) and professional staff, who buy real estate, shopping malls, toll-roads and more around the world).

Large US Pension funds are also major investors -- CalPers is the largest in the US.

Funny that in this case, the US wins the competition for government involvement. SS is funded as a direct program of the state. While Canada uses the market to fund pensions. Do you think your government should exit the market and fund CPP by loaning the payroll deductions to the Canadian government? Belief in government point to the US here.

Gov't monopolies almost always make money and a fair bit, be that the liquor business or energy grid companies.

Yes, they often do. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion, of course. I think its bad public policy to have the same organization both in the business of regulating business and competing with it.

While Norway put away almost all its oil royalties/profits into a sovereign wealth fund that now has 1.2 Trillion in it. That's for a country with a population of only 5 million.

Some folks are lucky. Government competence isn't why Norway is rich.

Here, you might look at the sovereign wealth funds of the Arab States [[such as Saudi Arabia). Resource wealth isn't always managed by government to the benefit of citizens. I think overall its more the rule than the exception that governments direct money to the rich. In another thread, rich Amazon is getting $4.5 million from the State of Michigan. Is this competence?

Its a choice to hire competent people, train them properly, make appointments that aren't particularly partisan, and empower those appointments to do their jobs.

Of course. Any organization is defined by the quality of their people, training, management. The question is whether our government does this well.

Sometimes they do. Other times their choices aren't so good. [[Solyndra, expand I-94, hire racist cops, build and then abandon gas plants in Oakville/Missasagua [[no I can't spell it))

I think that, for the most part, government lacks accountability. When WalMart acts badly, the market or regulators can punish them. And you don't have to go far from this board to see people who agree that corporation are evil. The market and the government can and should correct bad behavior. If the government is also the corporation, who is supposed to correct bad behavior?

The notion that you have a federal regulation prohibiting medicaid/medicare from negotiating lower drug prices is utterly mind boggling. Then people complain government isn't efficient. It can be, if you let it, and you demand it.

OK, you got me on US healthcare. It is a mess.

But are you really arguing that government is naturally efficient, and just needs to be given the freedom to express their inner super-efficient nature?

Maybe you're right. NASA vs. SpaceX. Amtrak vs. Southwest Airlines. Lyft vs. most local cab monopolies.

[Canadian Visitor]

Do you think your government should exit the market and fund CPP by loaning the payroll deductions to the Canadian government?

In a word "No"

CPP is a gov't mandate [[you must save for your retirement) and the gov't does oversee how that money is spent, through an arms-length, professional investment board.

That's how it should be. No political meddling.

Some folks are lucky. Government competence isn't why Norway is rich.

You and I will diverge here somewhat.

Of course, the fact that Norway has large amounts of oil is 'luck'.

But the decision not to use the proceeds of same to fill existing budgetary coffers and instead to save and invest the money was sound policy and good government.

The fact that that money has grown exponentially [[ie. was well invested) is again a facet of public policy.

Of course, such policy can be made badly or corruptly.

My point was Norway is an example that it can be done well.

I was contrasting this to the widespread belief among many Americans that government simply can't do public policy well.

Of course. Any organization is defined by the quality of their people, training, management. The question is whether our government does this well.

Not disagreeing. But my point was that it CAN be done well. Americans governments in my experience make a far higher percentage of appointments overtly partisan [[irrespective of party).

That has the immediate effect of reducing the likelihood of getting the best person for a given job.

In the same way, you all tend to turn over those appointments every 4 years like clockwork, even if the person IS doing an excellent job; thus reducing the likelihood of getting the best person for the job.

This is not to suggest that this sort of thing doesn't happen in Canada or elsewhere in the developed world, but it certainly is much less common.

The head of the civil service normally stays the same here when governments change. The heads of crown corporations and agencies are rarely changed en masse following an election, and neither are deputy ministers.

With a few exceptions, these appointments aren't overtly partisan, and this really helps with quality hiring.

I fail to understand the virtue in a transitory and overtly partisan senior bureaucracy.

..... build and abandon gas plants in Oakville/Missasagua [[no I can't spell it))

The partial building of the gas plants was a boondoggle. No question.

It was political interference in the bureaucratic process mind you. [[the change was made literally during an election campaign) and had the misfortune of being supported by all parties.

The real scandals were the approval of controversial locations in the first place; and the manner in which payments were dealt w/following termination of said contracts.

If the government is also the corporation, who is supposed to correct bad behavior?

Depends on the nature of the bad behavior.

The courts, other government agencies, the voters are all possibilities.

But are you really arguing that government is naturally efficient, and just needs to be given the freedom to express their inner super-efficient nature?

Maybe you're right. NASA vs. SpaceX. Amtrak vs. Southwest Airlines. Lyft vs. most local cab monopolies.

No, that is not my argument.

My argument is that government can be competent, ethical and reasonably efficient, given the right tools, mandate and political culture.

That thinking otherwise dooms you to bad results.

Low expectations are not a solution.

[Canadian Visitor]

The Bill to legalize pot passed the Canadian Federal Senate yesterday.

The actual date it takes effect has yet to be announced by will be between late August and the end of September.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-cannabis.html

[Wesley Mouch]

The Bill to legalize pot passed the Canadian Federal Senate yesterday.

The actual date it takes effect has yet to be announced by will be between late August and the end of September.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-cannabis.html

Bravo for sane thinking from the True North strong and free. [[Wish you could say the same for religious freedom, see TWU)

Wonder how long before Trump tweets on this?

In the elite governed world of the past, the international issues would have been worked out. Not sure how Trump-ville will deal with it.

The big issue is this [[as I understand.... you see I didn't inhale so I wouldn't know):

1) US Customs Officers can ban Canadians from the US for 5 years for being deceitful.

2) Disclosing marijuana use is admission of a crime to the US Fed, which also could ban entry to the US.

3) QED. You are almost as screwed as migrant families seeking a little vacation from squalor at the southern border.

Will be interesting politics.

Also be interesting to see how the entrenched interests control legal weed in Canada. The US seems to be allowing a more mixed public/private approach in WA & CO. Canada is so far allowing their gov't monopolies full control. Legions of bureaucrats are setting up shops. And cops are being hired to find any private plants, including those for personal medicinal use, and lock up the owners. Gonna be fun to watch.

So when the US inevitably legalizes at federal level, it'll be just like alcohol. When you get to the border, you'll be limited on what you can bring as a visitor, and Canadian residents will have to pay federal sales and excise tax on any weed they bring across border. So much fun to be had!

[Bong-Man]

Kudos to the Great White North. Sales won't be ready until September, so it looks like my Newfoundland trip will have to wait until next Fall. Also interesting that sales in the Maritimes will be done thru grocery stores.

The days of the U.S.'s classification of Weed as a schedule 1 drug are just about over. Prescription cbd oil is going to provide that change. You can't keep it schedule 1 if the FDA approves a derivative of weed for medical use. Also curious how long Repugnants are going to tolerate Brinks trucks with a couple billion in currency shoveling money around instead of using banks. You know that's not going to last. There's money to be made.

As for Michigan's proposal, who is it that decided that an individual should be allowed to have 10 ounces in their possession ? I've smoked weed for over 40 years, and never possessed more than an ounce at a time. Seems excessive, even to a hop-head like me.

[Canadian Visitor]

Decision on the date came quickly, though the legalization date itself is a bit later than expected.

Apparently to do w/the timing of the Quebec election.

Marijuana will be legal in Canada on October 17, 2018.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...not-legal-yet/

[Zacha341]

Hopefully they not have the stores on every corner as was our start-up experience [[a few summers ago) before reasonable ordinances went forth!

[Bong-Man]

So when the US inevitably legalizes at federal level, it'll be just like alcohol. When you get to the border, you'll be limited on what you can bring as a visitor, and Canadian residents will have to pay federal sales and excise tax on any weed they bring across border. So much fun to be had!

I seriously doubt this will be the approach on either side. More likely it will be leave your weed at home and buy ours. I really like the approach of mail-order services, and the grocery store angle. Canadians have the ability to solve logistical problems in a logical way. In America, it's okay to wheel your kids down a grocery store aisle past 60-70 feet of bottled booze and beer. Yet if an American grocery store sold weed behind a controlled counter, we'd have to hear about the kids....the poor kids. Direct mail-order through UPS or Federal express removes that angle of concern.

Not much different in States like Kansas & Indiana. If you still can't buy beer, alcohol, or wine on a Sunday, I seriously doubt you'll ever be able to buy recreational weed anywhere at any time.