State of Emergency/White Nationalist Protest in Virginia

[canuck]

Richard, what do you think of a US military intervention in Venezuela to "help" restore Justice and Democratic institutions?

[Richard]

Richard, what do you think of a US military intervention in Venezuela to "help" restore Justice and Democratic institutions?

That is an interesting debate.

At this time,does Venezuela present a clear and present danger to the sovereignty of The United States that requires military action?

Based on that alone,I would say, no.

But given that Venezuela,under a dictatorship,is the most powerful in South America,with allies of Russia,China,Korea,Cuba,Iran,Syria,Bolivia,Zimbabw e,Belarus,Peru,
Nicaragua,etc. etc.

Their Syrian born director of immigration has supplied known terrorists with papers and passports.

They support narco terrorist hit and runs across the Colombian border looking to destabilize Columbia.

They are considered a terrorist funding nation.

Caracas is 1300 miles as the missile flies from Miami,which makes them Korea's best buddy because it puts the whole Southern U.S. within range,today.

It is just common knowledge the human rights issues that totalitarian dictatorships bring.

We used to purchase 70% of their oil and provide 60% of their imports.

We switched to Canada oil and the all to do about the pipeline and now Canada and American oil companies involved feel there is more profit in selling to the Chinese,not a factor in this discussion at this time but plays something to look at in the future,as ramifications of.

So then the question becomes should we do a preventive action with small losses or kick the can down the road to deal with at a later time.

At this time there is a large percentage of the population there that would support military intervention and a fighting local force,be it as it may.

A couple of years down the road when the resistance is crushed,jailed,murdered,beat down into submission and Iran or Korea give them big mushroom cloud things.

Where are we at then and if it has come down to that,it will not be a military action but a war.

We could call in a coalition of votes of the neighboring democratic countries but if they say no,now,and it all comes out to play in the future,it will be us that has to deal with it.

Yes,as far as a risk assessment,now in my opinion,would be the time to do it.

We could arm the people and let them fight it out,but then we would be in another Afghanistan,so that leaves quick and hard like Panama,still not so easy.

Those are our choices,leave it alone and deal with it later or deal with it now.

It will not go away and it will come back and bite us in the rear if even it is just in increased narcotics trafficking on our shores,which we already know the impact of,or increased terrorism on our shores designed to destabilize this country.

Any move we make,we are screwed,and as it stands today the citizens of Venezuela need our help,they are not standing on the sidelines demanding it and they are putting their own lives on the line as we speak.

It would not be the first time and most likely not the last time we have ever done that.

People are slamming President Trump about closing borders,while at the same time turning a blind eye,history repeats itself over and over again.

[Canadian Visitor]

But given that Venezuela,under a dictatorship,is the most powerful in South America

Where do you get this BS from? Really? Wow!

Global Military Rankings - most powerful capability for nations in South or Central America.

17. Brazil
35. Argentina
39. Peru
40. Columbia
45. Venezuela

So let's get this right, they are the 5th most powerful military in South or Central America.

And they are little thread to their neighbours and no threat to the U.S. whatsoever, nor do they have prospect of being so.

Source:

https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

[canuck]

That is an interesting debate.

At this time,does Venezuela present a clear and present danger to the sovereignty of The United States that requires military action?

Based on that alone,I would say, no.

But given that Venezuela,under a dictatorship,is the most powerful in South America,with allies of Russia,China,Korea,Cuba,Iran,Syria,Bolivia,Zimbabw e,Belarus,Peru,
Nicaragua,etc. etc.

Their Syrian born director of immigration has supplied known terrorists with papers and passports.

They support narco terrorist hit and runs across the Colombian border looking to destabilize Columbia.

They are considered a terrorist funding nation.

Caracas is 1300 miles as the missile flies from Miami,which makes them Korea's best buddy because it puts the whole Southern U.S. within range,today.

It is just common knowledge the human rights issues that totalitarian dictatorships bring.

We used to purchase 70% of their oil and provide 60% of their imports.

We switched to Canada oil and the all to do about the pipeline and now Canada and American oil companies involved feel there is more profit in selling to the Chinese,not a factor in this discussion at this time but plays something to look at in the future,as ramifications of.

So then the question becomes should we do a preventive action with small losses or kick the can down the road to deal with at a later time.

At this time there is a large percentage of the population there that would support military intervention and a fighting local force,be it as it may.

A couple of years down the road when the resistance is crushed,jailed,murdered,beat down into submission and Iran or Korea give them big mushroom cloud things.

Where are we at then and if it has come down to that,it will not be a military action but a war.

We could call in a coalition of votes of the neighboring democratic countries but if they say no,now,and it all comes out to play in the future,it will be us that has to deal with it.

Yes,as far as a risk assessment,now in my opinion,would be the time to do it.

We could arm the people and let them fight it out,but then we would be in another Afghanistan,so that leaves quick and hard like Panama,still not so easy.

Those are our choices,leave it alone and deal with it later or deal with it now.

It will not go away and it will come back and bite us in the rear if even it is just in increased narcotics trafficking on our shores,which we already know the impact of,or increased terrorism on our shores designed to destabilize this country.

Any move we make,we are screwed,and as it stands today the citizens of Venezuela need our help,they are not standing on the sidelines demanding it and they are putting their own lives on the line as we speak.

It would not be the first time and most likely not the last time we have ever done that.

People are slamming President Trump about closing borders,while at the same time turning a blind eye,history repeats itself over and over again.

You'd make a better Prez than Chump. At least you can read a whole page of the CIA fact sheet and dream up a strategy. Kudos.

Now. You make this event in Charlottesville look like a fruit fly trap in an empty jam jar. See how your sense of proportions is skewed by a lifetime of Clinteastwooditis.

[Canadian Visitor]

While we're at it.............

You are aware that under NAFTA the US negotiated a clause that protects US access to Canadian oil, right? [[proportionality clause)

Feel Free to read up: [[NAFTA TEXT)

https://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/Home...7d3528949#A603

***

You're also aware we have limited ability to get the oil to tidewater anyway, right?

Nah, didn't think so.....

Your energy supply from up north is safe.

The whopping 8% you get from Venezuela is too..........Maduro kinda needs the money.

[Richard]

Where do you get this BS from? Really? Wow!

Global Military Rankings - most powerful capability for nations in South or Central America.

17. Brazil
35. Argentina
39. Peru
40. Columbia
45. Venezuela

So let's get this right, they are the 5th most powerful military in South or Central America.

And they are little thread to their neighbours and no threat to the U.S. whatsoever, nor do they have prospect of being so.

Source:

https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

You are thinking like an American or Canadian,when to understand,you need to think like a small country dictator.

Military strength has little to do projecting power or holding power over others.

First you need to control the people in your own country and you do that by stripping everything from them that they need to exist,hunger breaks the will to resist and causes neighbor to turn on neighbor,and a collapse of the monetary system strips everybody else of leverage.

Then when they are hungry and fighting in the streets for survival you allow them food in exchange for loyalty and peace,but just enough to survive,then you send your private government security force in to instill fear and reprisals and word gets out pretty quick,anybody that resists will be found with their throats cut in the night,or imprisoned without trial with sadistic torture that installs more fear.

You give the neighbors or your everyday spies something extra that really costs you nothing,an extra food ration here and there,maybe a little privilege like a basket of fresh strawberries,to buy their loyalty and turn in anybody that speaks ill of the regime.

You round up thousands in order to make them disappear,it does not matter if they are loyal or not,all you need to do is think they are not.

You now hold the power over the people,they are beaten into submission and will do as you order or die.

Venezuela is headed there and will be there within the close of the year.

Not too long ago Venezuela was considered the richest in South America.

They will retake that status because of petrol dollars and Narco trafficking.

They have eliminated or appropriated all foreign companies from within their border.

They do not need a military to have power when they have dollars,the little countries like Peru or the other dictators are easy bought because they are poor already,kick a few government officials 20 or 30 million and you just bought yourself a country.If they resist then fund a little coup.

Venezuela falls so does the balance of democracy in South America.We cannot let that happen because when they gain power like that they really are not inclined to stop.

notice how I overlooked your spelling errors and misuse of words,and did not allow it to cloud the message or think of you as any less of a person.

[Richard]

While we're at it.............

You are aware that under NAFTA the US negotiated a clause that protects US access to Canadian oil, right? [[proportionality clause)

Feel Free to read up: [[NAFTA TEXT)

https://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/Home...7d3528949#A603

***

You're also aware we have limited ability to get the oil to tidewater anyway, right?

Nah, didn't think so.....

Your energy supply from up north is safe.

The whopping 8% you get from Venezuela is too..........Maduro kinda needs the money.

It that the same NAFTA trade deal that is up for renegotiation?

I am not worried about oil,this country has enough to meet its demands for a long time.

It is the ones that fall for the war for oil aspect that worry about that.

I also did not say of today's numbers,here were our trade numbers with Venezuela 2014.

At 500 million we accounted for over 50% more then any other trade partner.

https://tradingeconomics.com/venezue...rts-by-country

[Richard]

You'd make a better Prez than Chump. At least you can read a whole page of the CIA fact sheet and dream up a strategy. Kudos.

Now. You make this event in Charlottesville look like a fruit fly trap in an empty jam jar. See how your sense of proportions is skewed by a lifetime of Clinteastwooditis.

I do not need to read CIA fact sheets and certainly would not put my life on the line depending on their intelligence.

The only thing that this has to do with Charlottesville is the common denominator of those who prefer a socialist approach.

Outside of that and talk of spelling and sentence structure we still not have not seen any solutions for dealing with the Nazis without rewriting the constitution.

Outside of your preferred solution of a socialist change, that just is not going to happen,do you have any suggestions?

[canuck]

Of course not. You probably believe like many others do that an invasion of a foreign country by your government has nothing to do with "fair trade practices", protection of Tillersonian commercial interests.
The collateral winnings is you get to beat down your old boogeyman Socialism.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes, I had to "excerpt" except from Richard's text to make a point. Sorry for omitting a sic.

Ok, I'll except that.

[Richard]

Of course not. You probably believe like many others do that an invasion of a foreign country by your government has nothing to do with "fair trade practices", protection of Tillersonian commercial interests.
The collateral winnings is you get to beat down your old boogeyman Socialism.

It is two totally different situations as of now,you embrace socialism,we do not,and neither does most of the rest of your country.

But that is the right in a democratic society,you can try.

[canuck]

It is two totally different situations as of now,you embrace socialism,we do not,and neither does most of the rest of your country.

But that is the right in a democratic society,you can try.

Well, socialist measures exist in Canada, and are pretty well embraced by the vast majority of Canadians. I notived a certain enthusiasm for Sanders by the youth of your country, to the point where the US may move toward some of what the rest of the capitalist nations afford their citizens. On the other hand, there is a corporate kind of social welfare to the Boeings and McDonnell Douglas Raytheon GE Martin Marietta, etc... that goes a long way toward a more violent repressive world. These guys profit from sales to the US military but also to a bunch of good friendly democracies like Saudi Arabia. God's Stuff. Put that under morning constitutional.

[Richard]

And now banana peels in a tree are considered racial.

McNeil went on to say that it felt 'surreal' to later find the peel suspended 6 feet up a tree trunk.
‘That, to me, was a slap in the face to see that banana hanging in a tree after talking about the personal truths of our campus,’ McNeil said.

Alexa Lee Arndt, interim director of Fraternity and Sorority Life at Ole Miss, said in an internal email obtained by The Daily Mississippian that many members of the Ole Miss community were 'hurt, frightened, and upset' in the wake of the peel incident.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...peel-tree.html


Guy is walking along eating a banana,sees no trash can,and throws the peel up in a tree.

That is considered to have racist undertones and offensive,I guess he could have thrown it on the ground and have the lawyers line up when somebody slipped on it.

It goes back to,where does it end.

[Honky Tonk]

Well, socialist measures exist in Canada, and are pretty well embraced by the vast majority of Canadians. I notived a certain enthusiasm for Sanders by the youth of your country, to the point where the US may move toward some of what the rest of the capitalist nations afford their citizens. On the other hand, there is a corporate kind of social welfare to the Boeings and McDonnell Douglas Raytheon GE Martin Marietta, etc... that goes a long way toward a more violent repressive world. These guys profit from sales to the US military but also to a bunch of good friendly democracies like Saudi Arabia. God's Stuff. Put that under morning constitutional.

I keep posting the same thing over and over, like a broken record. As long as someone has hold of the reigns, and is making bu-cu bucks on the health care business, nothing is going to change. Why should they give people a break when they can have it all?

What does notived mean?

[Richard]

^lol ... see,we are all human and subject to mistakes.


Probably a play on words,but there is a difference between social compassion based programs and a purely socialist economy,which does not seem to work for the majority long term.

Which also seems to work best under a dictator type situation.

The downside of capitalism is the greed factor but the upside is ones personal ability to change their life situation and move up.

Somewhere in the middle is the balance between the ability of the average person improving their situation and corporate welfare,or the ratio of individual advancement verses corporate.

Health care is a massive sticking point and I agree it is entirely money motivated to the point of excessive greed.

Implementing it on a large scale has its downsides also,look at what is happening in the UK and their health system.It is not going very well.

Comparatively using small countries and their system as a guide is a non starter to me,because we deal on a massive scale of things.

A 4cly may work well in a pinto but place it in a F350 and it will bog down.

We had lots of Canadian pharmacies pop up with highly reduced prices and then were shut down.Canadians were not dieing from their meds but the big pharm companies were losing their cut.

Funny,in Columbia,you can buy penicillin over the counter but Tyenol blackmarket brings a premium because the basic aspirin over the counter is weak at best.

[Canadian Visitor]

And now banana peels in a tree are considered racial.

Guy is walking along eating a banana,sees no trash can,and throws the peel up in a tree.

That is considered to have racist undertones and offensive,I guess he could have thrown it on the ground and have the lawyers line up when somebody slipped on it.

It goes back to,where does it end.

Two things:

One, you do know the banana peel reference, if 'thrown' at someone or the like is inferred to be calling them a 'monkey'; ie. stupid, lower form of life etc.

This has been understood to the case for a very long time.

***

Two, WTF w/littering being ok? Here we fine you if you do that, like $350.

You don't see a trash can, you carry your @#$# around w/you until you do! You take it back to your car, you put it in your pocket w/e. The sidewalk or various random trees are not a place for your trash.

Wow.

[Canadian Visitor]

The downside of capitalism is the greed factor but the upside is ones personal ability to change their life situation and move up.

.

Uh.......problem.

The United States is almost dead last in the developed world in social mobility. [[the ability of one to get ahead and better yourself relative to your parents, financially)

In other words, the least likely place for the 'American Dream' is America.

Note the mostly likely countries:

Denmark
Norway
Finland
Canada

https://www.oecd.org/eco/growth/NERO...mic-growth.pdf


****

PS. please stop confusing Authoritarianism w/Socialism.

One is an political system [[the 1st); the other is an economic model.

***

Also, Communism, historically is the one w/a Centrally Planned Economy and majority to full state ownership of assets.

Socialism, as practised in Sweden gives you private business and private home ownership as well as democracy.

Its simply more re-distributive

[Richard]

Two things:

One, you do know the banana peel reference, if 'thrown' at someone or the like is inferred to be calling them a 'monkey'; ie. stupid, lower form of life etc.

This has been understood to the case for a very long time.

***

Two, WTF w/littering being ok? Here we fine you if you do that, like $350.

You don't see a trash can, you carry your @#$# around w/you until you do! You take it back to your car, you put it in your pocket w/e. The sidewalk or various random trees are not a place for your trash.

Wow.

You are joking right? And no,I never heard of the banana peel reference or even thought about throwing one at somebody.

So are we banning bananas now?

I am glad that I do not live in Canada.

A banana peel would be considered bio degradable and the critters actually like them,if you throw bread on the ground for the pigeons in Canada can you also be arrested for littering?

So his options would have been,throw the peel on the sidewalk,throw it in the grass where others may like to walk barefoot or sit,or toss it up in the tree where critters can still have access to it.Seems to me he was actually being considerate to others.

Cotton is comfortable to wear and breathes easy is hot climates,do we now ban that because it may have racial undertones.

You are correct with the WTF.

[Canadian Visitor]

I am glad that I do not live in Canada.

That makes 2 of us.

..... if you throw bread on the ground for the pigeons in Canada can you also be arrested for littering?

You don't get arrested for littering either.

You do get fined. [[a ticket, you know, like speeding????)

So his options would have been,throw the peel on the sidewalk,throw it in the grass where others may like to walk barefoot or sit,or toss it up in the tree where critters can still have access to it.Seems to me he was actually being considerate to others.

No his option was as I outlined. Hold on to it until he found a garbage can.

Its called 'manners'.

[/QUOTE]

[oladub]

PS. please stop confusing Authoritarianism w/Socialism.
One is an political system [[the 1st); the other is an economic model.
***
Also, Communism, historically is the one w/a Centrally Planned Economy and majority to full state ownership of assets.
Socialism, as practised in Sweden gives you private business and private home ownership as well as democracy.
Its simply more re-distributive

Authoritarianism is the opposite of libertarianism or its extreme; anarchy. Authoritarianism/anarchy is on a different axis than laissez-faire capitalism/socialism. Socialism can be authoritarian as under Communism [[or National Socialism) as you mentioned. Socialism is also constitutional when consistent with the 10th. Amendment and other constitutional restrictions. Wars, for instance, are socialist enterprises that, according to the Constitution, can only be conducted by our federal government.

[jcole]

Throwing food out your car window is littering in the US, too; at least in FLA:

Fort Myers Police Lieutenant Jay Rodriguez says the physical make-up of trash doesn't matter."A banana could sit there for two or three days and look ugly to someone and be considered litter," he said.
He points to a Florida statute which defines litter.
"The law states you can't throw anything out the window," he explained.
The fine for littering in the state of Florida is $180, which just another reason not to toss anything out of your car window -- biodegradable or not.

[Richard]

You guys are amusing at times.

You supported and justified an illegal assembly.

You supported and justified illegal violence that was performed by participants while attending an illegal assembly because it was convenient to use as an end to a means.

You used name calling and disrespect towards a standing United States President for condemning the illegal actions that occurred at an illegal assembly.

But yet you choose to debate the legalities of a banana peel in a tree instead of the crux of the topic.Completely overlooking where the banana originally came from and who picked it,were they paid a fair wage,do they have health insurance and a retirement plan,how much CO was emitted by the ship that carried it to this shore then on to the warehouse then to the store.

Not to even mention the age old question of,did the Chiquita banana girl ever get trapped in the banana.

I think I am going to apply for millions in funding so I can criss cross the country doing a survey and ask how many have actually seen a banana peel on the ground in the last week and what is their first thought that comes to mind when they start the peeling process of the banana.

You guys support a collective system but yet also want to change the country according to each individuals personal feelings.You cannot have it both ways.

[canuck]

I hope Richard gets back to supplying a Banana Republic [[Venezuela) with old schoolbusses and stop hallucinating about a Socialist takeover.

[Richard]

I hope Richard gets back to supplying a Banana Republic [[Venezuela) with old schoolbusses and stop hallucinating about a Socialist takeover.

Well,sense the government that you support over there has taken control of everything a private individual can purchase including toilet paper,and outside of hefty port official bribes,my interests in exporting there,outside of black market rice or corn meal so people can eat something,verses nothing,if that were the case,are limited.

I also highly doubt that you have actually even purchased a banana from Venezuela in your life time or even looked at the country of origin when you bought one.

The old school bus comment shows your goal of remaining superior over others less fortunate and their opportunity to go from nothing to something really bugs you and your fellow visitor.

You embrace socialism but yet want to personally remain superior over others,I would say you actually have dictator leadership abilities,the lion likes to have the sheep stay in their place,it makes it easier to feast on later.

It is okay though,you have the same rights and freedoms as the Nazis in this country as in yours and as much as I disagree with you,I would still defend your right to them.

Coupled with the fact that I meet lots of Canadians seeking a warmer climate,that are actually pretty cool and good people,so I kinda view you as a minority and take it all with a grain of salt.

[canuck]

I don't support the Venezuelan government anymore than you do. You respect the choice Americans have made in regard to your new President, you have to do the same outside your borders. If you doubt the legitimacy of other governments the world over, you are in for a fiesta. How about doing a little check of Putin's legitimate hold on power in Russia for the past 20 years, and what of Saudi Arabia, chief among friendly non-socialist nations on this planet?