Hudson's Site Building Thread

[Satiricalivory]

Literally nobody cares about how fast they are building in Nashville or Chicago. Start your own thread if you want to bitch about slow building, but don't highjack this one.

I can't believe he's still here lol, like he's obviously the guy that's been banned several times, he's not even hiding it anymore.

I got too much shit to do to reply to him and frankly don't care what he's spewing, glad he has the free time for these essays though.

[313WX]

They dont have private investors building a project that have to go through a lo th of red tape

Come again?

[Dexlin]

You literally have no idea how complicated what they are building now in the pit is, and probably didn't even follow all of the shit they hit while drilling the caissons for the two-acre site that led to delays. The core of the Block is already above street level. Like, STFU.

[Scottathew]

This morning WJBK said that the Hudson Site is hitting a milestone, but unfortunately my daughter was talking over Jay Towers and I didn't catch what the milestone was. I was unable to find a news story by searching.

Did anyone catch what it was?

[stinkytofu]

This morning WJBK said that the Hudson Site is hitting a milestone, but unfortunately my daughter was talking over Jay Towers and I didn't catch what the milestone was. I was unable to find a news story by searching.

Did anyone catch what it was?

Hmmmm...not sure. I haven't read through this thread, but was downtown yesterday and the building is now well above viewing from street level. Pretty neat.

[JTburner]

I'm not sure if this is the milestone WJBK is talking about but the concrete pour on the ground floor of the block began this morning. Concrete trucks are parked on Woodward waiting in queue to pour. Looks like they are already roughly half way done as of a few minutes ago

[Scottathew]

I'm pretty sure this is it! Thanks JTburner for the info! Very exciting! I can't wait to watch today's video.

I'm not sure if this is the milestone WJBK is talking about but the concrete pour on the ground floor of the block began this morning. Concrete trucks are parked on Woodward waiting in queue to pour. Looks like they are already roughly half way done as of a few minutes ago

[royce]

From what I've seen in the video, I still don't see where the parking deck is supposed to go. Someone help me out.

[Dexlin]

It's unique as it will have the automated system like what they've tested out in the basement of the Free Press apartments. You'll drive in from Gratiot. Now, whether they'll let you park yourself or valet once you get into the garage - I'm guessing it's the latter - I don't know. But they have automated stackers, semi-automated stackers, and then some self-park spots, though I'm not sure if that will be guest or employee parking. Furthermore, there will be a truck elevator next to the automobile parking entrance to service the facility to keep trucks from idling on Farmer where there will instead be street parking. In the lowest basement will be a turntable so that trucks won't have to navigate the garage to turnaround.

Anyway, there are various sets of stairs, escalators, and elevators that will take you into either the block [[offices/retail/event space) or the tower [[residences/hotel). And, in fact, you can see the footprint/foundation for the truck elevators carved right next to the tower core on the videos.

I got all of this from the site plan Crain's leaked a few years ago, but this is what was approved.

[EGrant]

In the lowest basement will be a turntable so that trucks won't have to navigate the garage to turnaround.

Where will the turntable go? I've tried to picture it in the videos, but there seems to be a lot of columns in the way? [[Not being skeptical, just curious btw)

[Dexlin]

I marked up the most recent video. I've circled where the turntable and elevators are going in. Looks like they've had to dig up parts of it to run equipment for it.

[EGrant]

Construction on Bedrock's Hudson's Site now above ground via Detroit News.

[Gistok]

It's unique as it will have the automated system like what they've tested out in the basement of the Free Press apartments. You'll drive in from Gratiot. Now, whether they'll let you park yourself or valet once you get into the garage - I'm guessing it's the latter - I don't know. But they have automated stackers, semi-automated stackers, and then some self-park spots, though I'm not sure if that will be guest or employee parking. Furthermore, there will be a truck elevator next to the automobile parking entrance to service the facility to keep trucks from idling on Farmer where there will instead be street parking. In the lowest basement will be a turntable so that trucks won't have to navigate the garage to turnaround.

Anyway, there are various sets of stairs, escalators, and elevators that will take you into either the block [[offices/retail/event space) or the tower [[residences/hotel). And, in fact, you can see the footprint/foundation for the truck elevators carved right next to the tower core on the videos.

I got all of this from the site plan Crain's leaked a few years ago, but this is what was approved.

Thanks for all the info Dexlin. Your comments plus the Detroit News article explains a lot about why things have taken so long. I had suspected that surviving Hudson's foundations were a problem. Plus all that unique underground car/truck related features probably made this a nightmare to design and construct. It's way more than just a parking structure below ground, that's for sure.

[Dexlin]

Yeah, the underground levels are like their own little city or parking and service functions.

BTW, they didn't just hit the old Hudson's foundations, but stuff even older than that from what I remember being reported. I think I remember seeing some old wooden structures and such. I'm kind of curious if they saved any of these artifacts? Another big problem was that they continually hit pockets of putrid groundwater that they had to pump out.

Imagine having to drill 300 caissons on a 2-acre site - some that went down 80 feet, others that went down beyond 120 feet - and hitting all kinds of shit on the way down. This is a BEAST of a project. But once it gets above ground it's going to go much, much faster.

[casscorridor]

Construction on Bedrock's Hudson's Site now above ground via Detroit News.

Still, it's hilarious that only the "block" portion will be finished by the end of 2023. That's a total SIX years from its groundbreaking in December 2017 and no telling when the tower will finish, maybe two or more years further? The Shard in London - the tallest building in western Europe - took only three years to complete.

Is this because a lack of labor? Or a lack of expertise from an inexperience developer? Or is it because they just rushed towards groundbreaking without a definitive idea of what they were building?

[gumby]

I think this portion of the article needs to be paid attention to when people continue to whine about how long it is taking. Plus lets not forget that it wasn't as simple of digging a hole for the lower levels they had to demolish a 2 acre multi level parking garage and haul it away.

The project's timeline has seen some disruptions due to COVID-19, project leaders said Thursday. Construction statewide was shut down for 45 days from March to May as part of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's orders to help stop the spread of the virus. Four construction workers on the project have tested positive for the virus, project leaders said, but the bigger factor in slowing work down as been having other workers off-site for contact tracing and quarantine purposes after they've come into contact with COVID-positive coworkers. At one point, as many as 28 people were off work at once.

[Dexlin]

Yeah, I'm getting really damn tired of people tossing around the 2017 'groundbreaking.' They didn't even get to start test drilling until October 2018. Pouring of the first pile didn't begin until late January 2018. As as I've described, we know how the drilling went, not even to mention the COVID delay earlier this year as excerpted above.

[Dmberko11]

Haven't posted in a while. The naysayers are pretty foolish. Detroit really doesn't have any other high-rises under construction other than TCF hq much less a pipeline of proposals for tall buildings so the fact that hudsons is still a go in these economic times is great.
It's great architecture too. Where I live they build some damn ugly skyscrapers even if it's a lot of them.

[EGrant]

Yeah, I'm getting really damn tired of people tossing around the 2017 'groundbreaking.' They didn't even get to start test drilling until October 2018. Pouring of the first pile didn't begin until late January 2018. As as I've described, we know how the drilling went, not even to mention the COVID delay earlier this year as excerpted above.

Such a good point. They literally knocked down half of the entrance to the old parking garage there and called it a day.

[motorcity]

Still, it's hilarious that only the "block" portion will be finished by the end of 2023. That's a total SIX years from its groundbreaking in December 2017 and no telling when the tower will finish, maybe two or more years further? The Shard in London - the tallest building in western Europe - took only three years to complete.

Is this because a lack of labor? Or a lack of expertise from an inexperience developer? Or is it because they just rushed towards groundbreaking without a definitive idea of what they were building?

The two lines that bothered me in that DN piece:

The crew headcount is only 80. That’s a puzzlingly low number of men for a project of this magnitude. The new Jeep plant had 10x that.

And the line about don’t expect steel to raise until next summer. Why would that take another 6 to 8 months? Are they planning to slow down or stop construction in the winter?

[Gistok]

^^ I think he's referring to post #2291.

[motorcity]

Literally nobody cares about how fast they are building in Nashville or Chicago. Start your own thread if you want to bitch about slow building, but don't highjack this one.

I care. And since this land was given away by the city for free and there is $1 billion in public dollars tied up in this project, we all have a right to care and voice our concerns. I'm old enough to recall Gilbert dangled building a Hudson's tower back in 2006-2007 for his suburban employees, in order to get the land for free from the city. Yet when he finally moved his employees to Detroit in 2010, it was into the Compuware Building, not a new tower on the free Hudson's site.

The repeatedly delayed and much hyped Hudson's groundbreaking was finally in December 2017. It is now December 2020 and we're at street level on the new parking garage. Some of you want to claim the real groundbreaking wasn't until sometime in 2018 or maybe even early 2019? Okay, fine.

One Chicago Square in Chicago echos the Hudson's site -- 76-story tower, 10-story podium, 50-story tower -- and broke ground in March 2019. They paid over $110 million for the land, Gilbert paid $0. They have no public incentives, Gilbert has about $1 billion.

One Chicago Square is currently over 50 stories in the air. I'm so tired of the misinformation. This pace is not "normal" and we've been hearing the same recycled excuses going on 14 years.

https://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/...till-climbing/

[JonWylie]

I care. And since this land was given away by the city for free and there is $1 billion in public dollars tied up in this project, we all have a right to care and voice our concerns. I'm old enough to recall Gilbert dangled building a Hudson's tower back in 2006-2007 for his suburban employees, in order to get the land for free from the city. Yet when he finally moved his employees to Detroit in 2010, it was into the Compuware Building, not a new tower on the free Hudson's site.

The repeatedly delayed and much hyped Hudson's groundbreaking was finally in December 2017. It is now December 2020 and we're at street level on the new parking garage. Some of you want to claim the real groundbreaking wasn't until sometime in 2018 or maybe even early 2019? Okay, fine.

One Chicago Square in Chicago echos the Hudson's site -- 76-story tower, 10-story podium, 50-story tower -- and broke ground in March 2019. They paid over $110 million for the land, Gilbert paid $0. They have no public incentives, Gilbert has about $1 billion.

One Chicago Square is currently over 50 stories in the air. I'm so tired of the misinformation. This pace is not "normal" and we've been hearing the same recycled excuses going on 14 years.

https://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/...till-climbing/

I don't understand why you think a comparison to Chicago holds any weight. Chicago and Detroit are vastly different cities, when Chicago builds a skyscraper, its because they actually need every foot of building for offices or residential, and it's often pre-leased. From the get-go everyone was under the impression that the Hudson project was supposed to be a statement project, because if you were just going for the most economic building, there's plenty of empty land to build 5/6 story buildings on.

I've been watching the stream of construction video's of the Hudson religiously for over a year and real progress is happening. The foundation takes an extremely long time, then the tower goes up fast, then the interior takes another very long time. Meanwhile, Bedrock finished a huge expansion on OCM, finished renovating the Freep building, the Stott, bought another building on Merchants row, finished the Assembly, finished multiple apartment buildings in Brush park, and now are at street level for the Hudson, pretty much on schedule with what they said.

So be mad about the fact they got tax breaks, the city shells out way more than they probably need to, but at least Bedrock has something to show for it. Obviously you are not contributing to the the conversation that everyone else wants to have here and I don't know what you're endgame is, but obviously most people are tired of it.

[djtomt]

Finances always dictate construction. I'm guessing that's happening here. An article in today's paper says they don't have any tenants lined up or something to that effect. Probably want to sign some leases or LOI's before pushing ahead.

That said, those who express skepticism have a valid viewpoint. Comparison to other cities does make sense in this instance. Chicago can get things like this done quickly. Toronto puts up a skyscraper seemingly every other day. Something is very wrong with the process in Detroit that a building like this, and pretty much every development for that matter, takes so damn long. The process DEFINITELY needs examination and a thorough revamp.

[313WX]

Finances always dictate construction. I'm guessing that's happening here. An article in today's paper says they don't have any tenants lined up or something to that effect. Probably want to sign some leases or LOI's before pushing ahead.

That said, those who express skepticism have a valid viewpoint. Comparison to other cities does make sense in this instance. Chicago can get things like this done quickly. Toronto puts up a skyscraper seemingly every other day. Something is very wrong with the process in Detroit that a building like this, and pretty much every development for that matter, takes so damn long. The process DEFINITELY needs examination and a thorough revamp.

The process isn't a problem. Buildings are constructed in Detroit the same way they are in other cities.

As someone alluded to earlier [[but stopped just short of saying outright), the problem is Detroit itself and with the very few [[generally cash poor or inexperienced) developers it can attract.