Hudson's Site Building Thread

**emu steve** · May-27-17, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Or... it could end up like the Renaissance Center or Trappers Alley/International Center [[where Fishbones is). Going strong for about a year or more... and then pffft.... The "been there/done that" crowd lost interest.

This seems like an updated Festive Marketplace concept only newer building. But as we saw with the RenCen... after a while the WOW factor sort of wore off. Even the addition of the Riverwalk facing Winter Garden didn't seem to help.... it too is almost empty.

I just don't know what will make this succeed where the others failed.

Location? [[or location, location, location).

The foot traffic there on Woodward [[plus QLine) should be very good.

But I agree with what you are saying. Haven't been there in a while but the 'wow factor' is apparently long gone at Baltimore's Inner Harbor.

My guess for sustainability, is that it has to have value for those who live or work downtown, less so than a tourist attraction to attract suburbanites.

The residential component will also help, I'd think.

**bust** · May-27-17, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Location? [[or location, location, location).

The foot traffic there on Woodward [[plus QLine) should be very good.

...

My guess for sustainability, is that it has to have value for those who live or work downtown, less so than a tourist attraction to attract suburbanites.

The residential component will also help, I'd think.

Totally agree.

There isn't a store in the RenCen I'd shop at and its stupid design makes it inconvenient for anyone not already trapped inside besides.

Put in a Uniqlo, a Zara, an Apple store, a Microsoft Store, JCrew, a Target, a Trader Joe's and a Whole Foods, an H&M into the Hudson's building... They'll probably do very well and will attract lots of foot traffic.

Higher quality quick food options like Roast, Dig Inn, Buddy's Pizza, Chipotle, Hale & Hearty, Pret A Manger, and a high quality buffet-style place [[like Dishes in NY), would be a huge improvement over that miserable food court at the RenCen and will bring lots more foot traffic too. Similar local small businesses would also be a nice alternative to the chains.

I'm sure Dan Gilbert knows that.

**Detroitdave** · June-01-17, 11:04 AM

Like what was said earlier, Location , Location , Location.
The issue with the RenCen was it was cut off from the rest of downtown
crossing Jefferson was always an issue,also it was built as a maze to keep you lost inside, like Fairlane was.
This is an iconic spot right off of Woodward. You can't find a better location in downtown.

Originally Posted by Gistok

Or... it could end up like the Renaissance Center or Trappers Alley/International Center [[where Fishbones is). Going strong for about a year or more... and then pffft.... The "been there/done that" crowd lost interest.

This seems like an updated Festive Marketplace concept only newer building. But as we saw with the RenCen... after a while the WOW factor sort of wore off. Even the addition of the Riverwalk facing Winter Garden didn't seem to help.... it too is almost empty.

I just don't know what will make this succeed where the others failed.

**emu steve** · May-27-17, 08:10 AM

I think it will make it. Big?

The whole theme of a lot of what is happening in downtown/Midtown is what demographers call DINKs

Double Income, No Kids.

Those young folks will probably live along the Woodward corridor and go to this new place [[via QLine) for all of their clothes, etc. [[not to the 'burbs).

**EGrant** · May-27-17, 08:32 AM

There just isn't much to do in the Winter Garden, other than to look at it. If the renderings of Hudson's are any indication, Gilbert will have unique stores, programming, and a prime location. Toss in that residential and commercial aspect, and I think it will see plenty of traffic.

**emu steve** · May-31-17, 10:26 PM

Crains has a Tweet about site work beginning in December.

https://twitter.com/crainsdetroit/st...15381431717889

And the story:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article..._medium=social

Of course, no Detroit story could be complete w/out reference to parking.

The 1,100 parking spaces will be demolished in December so work can begin on the footings.

**emu steve** · May-31-17, 10:48 PM

Apartment rents could be $3 per sq. foot.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...oit/359684001/

**SammyS** · June-01-17, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Apartment rents could be $3 per sq. foot.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...oit/359684001/

WOW. Is it safe to say these rates are approaching downtown Chicago prices?

**mikeg19** · June-01-17, 11:42 AM

Just a thought. Now with the legislation all but wrapped up on the tax capture for transformational projects, when will the rest of DG's developments come online? I believe he said that there are over $2B in projects in the pipeline that are waiting on that to pass, one of them the multi tower development of the Monroe block. I believe that the bill states that only one project is approved per year in any city, so one would think that Hudson's in 2017, Monroe Block in 2018? I'm wondering if he is going to want to use this on the potential soccer stadium as well. A lot going on here.

**southen** · June-01-17, 12:01 PM

My guess is that Hudson's this year and MLS next year. The Monroe Block announcement was mostly fluff to help push the legislation. I have no doubt that they want to build commercial and residential on those blocks, but I doubt that the design and scale has been determined. Given that he is considering adding space to the back of Compuware I have a feeling that Monroe Block may increase in size due to the future demand for quality office space, especially when it is located on the best public space in the state.

**Mackinaw** · June-01-17, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by southen

My guess is that Hudson's this year and MLS next year. The Monroe Block announcement was mostly fluff to help push the legislation. I have no doubt that they want to build commercial and residential on those blocks, but I doubt that the design and scale has been determined. Given that he is considering adding space to the back of Compuware I have a feeling that Monroe Block may increase in size due to the future demand for quality office space, especially when it is located on the best public space in the state.

So tired of looking at parked cars and chain link fence on the Monroe Block. It really is an unacceptable land use and a blight that holds back what is otherwise a gem and centerpoint of the city [[CMPark). Hopefully Bedrock gets that and will accelerate the Monroe Block construction.

**southen** · June-01-17, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

So tired of looking at parked cars and chain link fence on the Monroe Block. It really is an unacceptable land use and a blight that holds back what is otherwise a gem and centerpoint of the city [[CMPark). Hopefully Bedrock gets that and will accelerate the Monroe Block construction.

Agreed. Given the fact that it fronts Campus Martius I always thought it to be slightly more important than Hudson's for what we currently have going downtown. Hudson's may be more historically important but Monroe is pretty glaring given all of the improvements in that area.

**Danny** · June-03-17, 07:35 AM

It's official, the construction of the Detroit's tallest building called "GILBERT TOWER" at the Old Hudson's Dept. Store block will start in December.

**clubboss** · June-03-17, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

It's official, the construction of the Detroit's tallest building called "GILBERT TOWER" at the Old Hudson's Dept. Store block will start in December.

The demolition of the parking structure begins in December

**EGrant** · September-13-17, 02:55 PM

Updated renderings released today.

Looks taller, has more apartments and includes an observation deck.

https://twitter.com/kirkpinhoCDB/sta...53792490508289

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**DetroitSoldier** · September-13-17, 03:07 PM

Am I the only one seeing stone blending in to glass in the tower? I've never seen it before and I'm sure it's just my eyes playing games, but I think if done right that could actually be really cool.

**EGrant** · September-13-17, 03:23 PM

Sorry for the double post, but here's the full article and high res rendering: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...nd-gets-taller

**EGrant** · September-13-17, 03:13 PM

Yeah I think that is what is happening. I'm sure we'll get the full quality image soon, but here's a somewhat better shot. https://twitter.com/JGallagherFreep/...53072575975424

EDIT: Interesting note from the meeting; the block will have two buildings instead of one massive structure. Looks like the tower and base are now separate.

**Zads07** · September-13-17, 03:25 PM

I am intrigued by the fact it goes from stone to glass and if there is an observation deck at the top, that would be amazing. Curious to hear more details about this upgrade and why. Maybe a push for Amazon?

**Scottathew** · September-13-17, 05:00 PM

Height has been upgraded from 734 to above 800 feet.

...wow...

**313WX** · September-13-17, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

Height has been upgraded from 734 to above 800 feet.

...wow...

Besides Chicago & NYC, only Atlanta has 3 buildings taller than it east of the Mississippi.

**TheEnergizer** · September-14-17, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Besides Chicago & NYC, only Atlanta has 3 buildings taller than it east of the Mississippi.

Key Tower in Cleveland

**warsaw7** · September-14-17, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Besides Chicago & NYC, only Atlanta has 3 buildings taller than it east of the Mississippi.

I really think you should go back, review your above statement and do some research before you post. Philadelphia has two buildings; Indianapolis, Charlotte and Pittsburgh each have one building that are over 800 feet. And if you want to get technical Minneapolis does as well.