Hudson's Site Building Thread

**canuck** · October-18-22, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

And I'd just add to that, that some of us long-sufferers may still be waking from up a nightmare of when downtown was a scary ghost town and who on earth would want to go there. What? You mean those days are over? Yep.

To the outsider arriving now, with no knowledge of that history, that is no longer the case. There are four major leagues sports teams, theaters, casinos [for better or worse], events and activities all over the place and, most importantly, a sense of security.

Yeah the prices are high but not that high compared to other cities. There are lots of people with lots of money and this is the only considerable urban center for 200 miles. And the Hudson site project is only going to accelerate that.

I would add the Van Gogh show at the DIA that you announced in another thread as a major happening to your list of draws. That hits it out of the ballpark as far as big spenders go. If the team at DIA keeps doing that, along with the gritty art offerings the city has become famous for, it's one more ace in hand for hoteliers, luxury brands, etc…

**Gistok** · October-18-22, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by K-slice

I would love to get a look at the books of current hotels downtown to see what is really driving this demand. Where are the people coming from to fill these rooms? What are they doing in town? And who is going to spend that kind of money to stay in Detroit?

Among other guests... the 4 major sports leagues folk, as well as stars that fill the performance venues in the city often stayed at the luxury Townsend Hotel in Birmingham. Now they will have a more nearby high end hotel to stay at on the Hudson's block.

**Scottathew** · October-18-22, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Bedrock is rebuilding Brush Park and there are lots of neighborhood developments going on in the city. Sure, there's a long way to go, but it's not like the only two options are a skyscraper downtown or improving the neighborhoods. Both can happen, and are happening.

Agreed, the situation is complex and multiple problems can be solved at the same time. Having to pick one or the other is a false dichotomy. I hope that we can see building momentum as the years go by in both downtown and the neighborhoods.

**Margaret's boy** · October-18-22, 02:43 PM

I'll put my two cents here. Toronto may be bigger than Detroit and the largest Canadian city but it can't match Detroit when it comes to architecture. The Hudson tower is definitely more beautiful than anything that's being built in hogtown and the people are friendlier too.

**Lowell** · October-18-22, 06:03 PM

I'm all for neighborhoods development and am happy to see that happening in many cases. In the future, that happening or not happening, in what remains of them, will be the ultimate measure of urban success.

I think, however, the possibility of that success hinges on the success of the recovery of the core city, meaning it is much more likely to have a chance with a strong job and tax-producing core city than without it. Without a healthy heart it will be difficult for the limbs to strengthen.

Originally Posted by EGrant

Bedrock is rebuilding Brush Park and there are lots of neighborhood developments going on in the city. Sure, there's a long way to go, but it's not like the only two options are a skyscraper downtown or improving the neighborhoods. Both can happen, and are happening.

Agreed, the situation is complex and multiple problems can be solved at the same time. Having to pick one or the other is a false dichotomy. I hope that we can see building momentum as the years go by in both downtown and the neighborhoods.

**stasu1213** · October-19-22, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

Agreed, the situation is complex and multiple problems can be solved at the same time. Having to pick one or the other is a false dichotomy. I hope that we can see building momentum as the years go by in both downtown and the neighborhoods.

This is why I had started a thread about Lear Corp. There need to be more companies such as Lear the could employ residents whom may not have a college degree but could work there and make a living being part of the multicultural/multi income neighborhood or community that will make Detroit a much more desirable and sought after place to live

**ShadowSoarer** · October-24-22, 03:35 PM

I believe the elevator cores went up today 10/24.

Attachment 42321

**drjeff** · October-24-22, 04:37 PM

The tower is now tall enough you can see it from Belle Isle [[as of last Friday)

**Scottathew** · October-25-22, 06:19 AM

The cores also seem to be taller than the One Campus Martius building.

Speed seems to have picked up. They seem to be in a rinse-and-repeat mode now.

On the block side they've done a lot more façade.

**Margaret's boy** · October-27-22, 03:02 PM

You can see the core rising from the Canadian side. Very impressive.

**ShadowSoarer** · November-04-22, 11:55 AM

I believe the elevator cores went up today as of 11/4.

Attachment 42328

**stasu1213** · November-14-22, 12:31 PM

I wonder why it had taken only 4 years to build the RenCen, 31/2 years to build to build the Compuware Building, 3 years to build Comerica Tower, 2 years to build the addition to the Compuware Building. Now it's taking more than 6 years to even get The Block portion of the Hudson site to finally get it's skin covering, will take up to 8 years for the tower part to be completed, 6 + years to renovate The Book Tower, and the Monroe Block had been reduced to an entertainment block. Am I missing something here? Had contractors been switched from those whom had gotten the job done in a timely manner to those who appear to stretch out the construction of projects just to keep the steady paychecks coming. It make Detroit look less desirable to other corporations or businesses whom are looking for cities to operate in

**angry_fred** · November-14-22, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I wonder why it had taken only 4 years to build the RenCen, 31/2 years to build to build the Compuware Building, 3 years to build Comerica Tower, 2 years to build the addition to the Compuware Building. Now it's taking more than 6 years to even get The Block portion of the Hudson site to finally get it's skin covering, will take up to 8 years for the tower part to be completed, 6 + years to renovate The Book Tower, and the Monroe Block had been reduced to an entertainment block. Am I missing something here? Had contractors been switched from those whom had gotten the job done in a timely manner to those who appear to stretch out the construction of projects just to keep the steady paychecks coming. It make Detroit look less desirable to other corporations or businesses whom are looking for cities to operate in

Indeed you are missing something - the three slow projects you mentioned are all Bedrock. They're pretty clearly oversubscribed right now so they're probably not spending the money as quickly as some would like to see. Add that to the fact that we have a construction labor shortage and you get long construction times.

If you look beyond bedrock, you'll see that the exchange, the Louis, MCS, Godfrey, and the Perennial are all more or less on track

**Gistok** · November-14-22, 02:50 PM

^Not to mention that the Huntington Bank HQ tower on Woodward is finished.

**ShadowSoarer** · November-14-22, 03:02 PM

Even much smaller projects from Bedrock such as City Modern seem to be taking a while [[~$100 million project compared to $1-1.4 billion project).

It is not an apples to apples comparison, but City Modern broke ground late 2016 and by the end of this year it will be 6 years since construction. From the look of things it doesn't seem like it will be done till at least end of 2023 so at least 7 years of construction. If the Brewster Douglas [[$300 million project) ever breaks ground, if it gets built at the same pace as City Modern then it could take 21 years to build.

It is understandable that development projects take a lot of time and money, but the longer these developments take the longer it will take for the city to grow. Sorry for the rant.

**Satiricalivory** · November-14-22, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

Indeed you are missing something - the three slow projects you mentioned are all Bedrock.

They're also all by far the biggest, most expensive and highest quality projects in the city other than MCS. So lets not forget that.

**stasu1213** · November-14-22, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

Indeed you are missing something - the three slow projects you mentioned are all Bedrock. They're pretty clearly oversubscribed right now so they're probably not spending the money as quickly as some would like to see. Add that to the fact that we have a construction labor shortage and you get long construction times.

If you look beyond bedrock, you'll see that the exchange, the Louis, MCS, Godfrey, and the Perennial are all more or less on track

Get rid of the 53% hiring og Detroiters rule and hire qualified people from the tro County areas and there will be no shortages

**angry_fred** · November-14-22, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Get rid of the 53% hiring og Detroiters rule and hire qualified people from the tro County areas and there will be no shortages

That's a bold statement. It might ease things a bit but contractors everywhere are pretty backed up

**EGrant** · November-15-22, 01:55 PM

Aren't a lot of the big projects just paying the penalty for not hitting that 53% number anyway? It's been a while since a looked at the latest community engagement report or whatever they are called.

**stasu1213** · November-15-22, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

Aren't a lot of the big projects just paying the penalty for not hitting that 53% number anyway? It's been a while since a looked at the latest community engagement report or whatever they are called.

Is this just for Detroit or across the nation? I know that it had been spouted by politician and community organizers in Detroit that any businesses or developments that happen in the city must hire 53 percent of Detroiters first. I don’t have a problem with this ruling for the residents in the city need jobs. I do have a problem of fining developers and such for not being able to find 53 percent qualified people in the city forcing them to hire outside of the city. I don’t know if any other city across the country has this rule or is it just Detroit that had this ruling?

**stasu1213** · November-15-22, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

That's a bold statement. It might ease things a bit but contractors everywhere are pretty backed up

It has been reported that the Illitches were fined multiple of times for not having enough Detroiters working on the LCA. Instead of opening academies that bore famous african american names on them why not open more vocational schools that will prep young Detroiters for these positions.

**ShadowSoarer** · November-18-22, 03:40 PM

Update as of 11/18. I don't think the elevator cores have gone up. Was anticipating the cores to go up today since it looked like they were pouring concrete yesterday. Could be weather related. The crane has definitely increased in height though.

Attachment 42346

**Gistok** · November-18-22, 05:09 PM

Not sure about minimum temperatures for pouring... but now we are below freezing for a high temp until Monday. Not sure if that is the reason?

**EGrant** · November-19-22, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Is this just for Detroit or across the nation? I know that it had been spouted by politician and community organizers in Detroit that any businesses or developments that happen in the city must hire 53 percent of Detroiters first. I don’t have a problem with this ruling for the residents in the city need jobs. I do have a problem of fining developers and such for not being able to find 53 percent qualified people in the city forcing them to hire outside of the city. I don’t know if any other city across the country has this rule or is it just Detroit that had this ruling?

It's a Detroit-specific rule, and is part of the stipulations on the tax breaks these big projects got.

**stasu1213** · November-19-22, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

It's a Detroit-specific rule, and is part of the stipulations on the tax breaks these big projects got.

I wonder if these companies or contractors can't find enough qualified construction worker living within the city limits that could 51% hiring rule standard. If not then maybe the companies should not get a tax break but don't have to be subject to hire 51% detroiters