Hudson's Site Building Thread

[bigboat]

Satan stood over my shoulder and whispered it was going to be 666 ft. Kidding.

Came up on You Tube earlier today, it took 13 months to build the 102 floor Empire State Building in 1931. Makes me wonder if our Hudson's Building will. at least have the rough construction completed this year

[Gistok]

Came up on You Tube earlier today, it took 13 months to build the 102 floor Empire State Building in 1931. Makes me wonder if our Hudson's Building will. at least have the rough construction completed this year

Gotta remember that 1931 was the heart of the depression. Everybody was out of work... so getting as many skilled workers as you wanted back then was easy.

Also, because it was during the Great Depression that it opened... it was jokingly called "The Empty State Building". It could not have opened at a worse time. It wasn't until 1951 [20 years later] that it finally became profitable.

Maybe Dan Gilbert learned from the lessons of history. Until the Pandemic "Work from Home" situation sorts itself out with seeing just how many employers force their people back to work... Gilbert is in no rush to complete an empty building...

[EGrant]

Five people died building the Empire State Building. Safety standards and the level of complexity of buildings has increased significantly in almost 100 years.

[Lowell]

Came up on You Tube earlier today, it took 13 months to build the 102 floor Empire State Building in 1931. Makes me wonder if our Hudson's Building will. at least have the rough construction completed this year

Let's not forget that the Fisher Building took only 15 months to build--an astonishing fact considering all its details. The logistics of getting the materials to the site and the state of construction equipment compared today continue to bogle my mind as to how they could do that back then.

[bailey]

Gotta remember that 1931 was the heart of the depression. Everybody was out of work... so getting as many skilled workers as you wanted back then was easy.

Also, because it was during the Great Depression that it opened... it was jokingly called "The Empty State Building". It could not have opened at a worse time. It wasn't until 1951 [20 years later] that it finally became profitable.

Maybe Dan Gilbert learned from the lessons of history. Until the Pandemic "Work from Home" situation sorts itself out with seeing just how many employers force their people back to work... Gilbert is in no rush to complete an empty building...

Bedrock is in no rush because it will be virtually empty. Rocket Mortgage has lost 85% of it's business and will be cutting at least 20% more in headcount this year. It wont be called "layoffs"..it'll be "natural attrition" lol. Bedrock/Gilbert hasn't figured out the plan for condos, large commercial tenants or the use huge areas of floor plate because the bottom fell out of the mortgage business and downtowns in general as WFH is here to stay for the white collar world.

Add this project to the empty floors Bedrock has in all their commercial properties today or coming online soon and its not a pretty picture.

There is no incentive to complete it, or the madison block, or the fail jail site, or many other Bedrock projects-- and for that matter, most of what Olympia claims it will build too. I mean other than the parking decks....Illitches always need those!

I just hope they don't stop before they skin the whole thing. Would hate to have to look at that open wound for a decade.

[JonWylie]

There is no incentive to complete it, or the madison block, or the fail jail site, or many other Bedrock projects-- and for that matter, most of what Olympia claims it will build too. I mean other than the parking decks....Illitches always need those!

Might want to learn the name of the projects before you go on a doom and gloom rant. *Monroe Block*, fyi

[bailey]

Might want to learn the name of the projects before you go on a doom and gloom rant. *Monroe Block*, fyi

yup. my bad.

but did a typo really impact the issue?

the discussion on this thread keeps coming back to why it's taking the better part of a decade to build something generic and uncomplicated....and no one seems to want to address the quite obvious reasons why.

[Satiricalivory]

yeah, totes no incentive to finish this. It's not like they've already spent half a billion dollars and wanna make money off their investment or anything. Real genius take.

[Jason]

yup. my bad.

but did a typo really impact the issue?

the discussion on this thread keeps coming back to why it's taking the better part of a decade to build something generic and uncomplicated....and no one seems to want to address the quite obvious reasons why.

1. The building isn't generic and uncomplicated.

2. The part of construction that was slow was demolishing the old parking garage and drilling through the foundations of the gigantic skyscraper that previously occupied the site. Since then they've been making progress well enough.

3. A lot of different things need to happen in order to build a building, these different things are dependent on each other in different ways, and the general contractor develops a construction schedule to account for that. Some aspects of the construction might seem like they're going really slow or not at all, but it's really that their work doesn't need to be done yet so they have flexibility, and different, less visible work is rushing ahead on a tighter schedule. Someone put the turkey in the oven late for Thanksgiving dinner and you're unhappy that they're just sitting on the couch watching tv instead of plating the cranberry sauce, even though dinner is still two hours away. No one here has the expertise or knowledge of the project to know whether or not they're behind schedule.

And related to that, we don't know how the pandemic and the supply chain issues and labor issues etc have affected all of the different building components. It's likely that the less visible work has been delayed because of the pandemic.

4. The building isn't being built by an individual person who has feelings and can just decide to go slow or fast, there are different companies who all have contracts detailing what they need to do. Bedrock not being in a rush to lease the office [[whether or not that's actually true) doesn't mean that Barton Malow is somehow incentivized to be willy nilly with the project.

[K-slice]

WFH is here to stay for the white collar world.

The foundation of your assertions is incorrect, therefore everything you've built on it falls down flat. Many companies have already brought workers back, many more will in the months and years ahead. Will it ever be back to pre-2020 levels? Probably not, but returning to the office will be an ongoing trend.

[ShadowSoarer]

Looks like Bedrock Detroit decided to pull the plug on the project:


Just kidding, happy early April fools! For some reason the lights were off last weekend. Here is an update as of 3/23 with the elevator core rising up on 3/22:

[stasu1213]

Looks like Bedrock Detroit decided to pull the plug on the project:


Just kidding, happy early April fools! For some reason the lights were off last weekend. Here is an update as of 3/23 with the elevator core rising up on 3/22:

It is moving along well

[stasu1213]

Let's not forget that the Fisher Building took only 15 months to build--an astonishing fact considering all its details. The logistics of getting the materials to the site and the state of construction equipment compared today continue to bogle my mind as to how they could do that back then.

I had always questioned the length of time it takes to complete projects around Detroit. Not just the construction of skyscrapers but other projects as well. The east Riverwalk was supposed had been completed last summer but worked stopped abruptly as soon as the path was getting closer to the underneath Belle Isle bridge. Now today it's reported un the Detroit News that the few feet that need to be paved won't be completed until this fall. Something as the stalling if this small task make one question the way things are done in the completing of more major projects

[djtomt]

I had always questioned the length of time it takes to complete projects around Detroit. Not just the construction of skyscrapers but other projects as well. The east Riverwalk was supposed had been completed last summer but worked stopped abruptly as soon as the path was getting closer to the underneath Belle Usle bridge. Now today it's reported un the Detroit News that the few feet that need to be paved won't be completed until this fall. Something as the stalling if this small task make one question the way things are done in the completing of more major projects

Spot on.

This isn't an apples to apples comparison [[we don't have the population or the immigration that Toronto has) but how can cities like Toronto throw up 50 plus story condo buildings in the middle of a busy downtown, seemingly 1-2 a week; and a development in downtown Detroit like Brush Park - a collection of less than 20 4-5 story buildings in a lightly trafficked area - is still ongoing several years later? Even factoring in the pandemic, that development should have been done already. That's only one example. There are many more.

Something is systemically wrong with Detroit development. Not sure what that is, but definitely something is amiss. It shouldn't take this long.

[Gistok]

Well the Huntington Tower [Woodward & W. Elizabeth] went up at lightning speed... so it is not a Detroit problem... but a problem specific to some of the Detroit developers.

I'm still trying to figure out why the Ilitches Detroit Life Building on Park Ave. behind the Fox has taken 20 years [off and on construction work], and it is still not done.

[ShadowSoarer]

Another great example is City Modern which broke ground late 2016 and by the looks of it likely won't finish by the end of the year in 2023. That is almost 7 years of construction.

If the Brewster Douglas project ever breaks ground [[feels like 7 years since announcement) hopefully they don't keep the same pace as City Modern otherwise that project could take almost 21 years to complete.

[stasu1213]

Spot on.

This isn't an apples to apples comparison [[we don't have the population or the immigration that Toronto has) but how can cities like Toronto throw up 50 plus story condo buildings in the middle of a busy downtown, seemingly 1-2 a week; and a development in downtown Detroit like Brush Park - a collection of less than 20 4-5 story buildings in a lightly trafficked area - is still ongoing several years later? Even factoring in the pandemic, that development should have been done already. That's only one example. There are many more.

Something is systemically wrong with Detroit development. Not sure what that is, but definitely something is amiss. It shouldn't take this long.

I am beginning to believe money from foundations and grants given for the development of the riverwalk had been or are being redirected to some other purpose. There are a couple of people who set on the board whom I am questionable about. Only a few ft and the East Riverwalk portion would had been completed that went from Mt Elliot Park to Gabriel Richard park but work abruptly ceased with no public explanation? Storefronts along John R in the new Brush Park development are still empty 2 years after the development had been completed. A Target Store where construction could had been completed by now if it didn’t have to wait on some attached development that was supposed to hand broken ground this past December but the only noise that is heard from that site is crickets. But of course some city operating sympathizers on here will call me and others conspiracy nuts when we had called out the crap that goes on in the city especially with these developments

[southen]

Calling someone a conspiracy theorist who wildly and constantly speculates about secret plots without a modicum of proof doesn’t mean that that person is a pro city sympathizer. It means they appreciate discussing facts and not figments of one’s imagination.

Frustration with the speed of development in this city is pretty universal. You happen to be the only one claiming there are questionably people doing questionable things without offering anything of substance. I’m sorry getting your Target has taken too long though, I really am.

[stasu1213]

Calling someone a conspiracy theorist who wildly and constantly speculates about secret plots without a modicum of proof doesn’t mean that that person is a pro city sympathizer. It means they appreciate discussing facts and not figments of one’s imagination.

Frustration with the speed of development in this city is pretty universal. You happen to be the only one claiming there are questionably people doing questionable things without offering anything of substance. I’m sorry getting your Target has taken too long though, I really am.

Blah blah

[southen]

Blah blah

At least you streamlined the post while maintaining the same level of substance.

[stasu1213]

At least you streamlined the post while maintaining the same level of substance.

Unlike you I question the going ones in Detroit every since Kilpatrick was Mayor and the so called pay to play business dealings that went on under his administration. This practice probably still goes on especially with former Councilmen Leland and Spivey were investigated and one going to jail. I know that other cities across America have corrupti9n going on but at least projects are being completed in a timely manner in other cities even Cleveland. This city council had rubbered stamped anything the billionaires had placed in front of them. At what cost? Target? Had this council been in place 10 years earlier Wholefoods probably wouldn’t not been built unless it was attached to some failed development. Go figure my friend

[southen]

Unlike you I question the going ones in Detroit every since Kilpatrick was Mayor and the so called pay to play business dealings that went on under his administration. This practice probably still goes on especially with former Councilmen Leland and Spivey were investigated and one going to jail. I know that other cities across America have corrupti9n going on but at least projects are being completed in a timely manner in other cities even Cleveland. This city council had rubbered stamped anything the billionaires had placed in front of them. At what cost? Target? Had this council been in place 10 years earlier Wholefoods probably wouldn’t not been built unless it was attached to some failed development. Go figure my friend

Repeating the same baseless speculation doesn't make it true. Offer up something of substance and I am all ears but now you are bringing up Kwame as if it is somehow relevant to development in Detroit in 2023. It's not.

[angry_fred]

I drove by last night and noticed that they've started removing the plastic from the bottom story of the block building

[stasu1213]

I drove by last night and noticed that they've started removing the plastic from the bottom story of the block building

That great! That is going be one beautiful building when completed

[stasu1213]

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The peeling has begun