Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Gistok** · June-20-22, 04:51 PM

For those of you who are impatiently waiting for the Hudson's block to finish... here's Gilbert's other major project [besides the Justice campus on E. Warren]... this $330 million project scheduled to be finished in later 2022...

**bigboat** · June-20-22, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer

Drone shot posted today by WXYZ Detroit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JzhNztZhGU

Nice video, but not too many construction workers around, maybe because of the holiday today.

**Jason** · June-20-22, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer

Drone shot posted today by WXYZ Detroit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JzhNztZhGU

I like the People Mover cameo at the end lol

**bigboat** · June-21-22, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Nice video, but not too many construction workers around, maybe because of the holiday today.

I did see an article in the online edition of the Detroit News this morning indicating Bedrock wants another $60 million tax break to make the Hudson's site viable. So, they must have concerns about being able to make any money or stay afloat on their $1 billion+ investment.

**Gistok** · June-21-22, 01:31 PM

^ Or something logical... such as the inflationary increase in the price of construction material.

**bigboat** · June-22-22, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

^ Or something logical... such as the inflationary increase in the price of construction material.

The Detroit council has already tabled the additional tax break once, I wonder what Bedrock would do if they cannot get the additional tax break from Detroit. That would really give Bedrock an excuse to downsize the tower. I really hope that does not happen though, but, I think Bedrock is very serious as they have pretty much stopped working on the tower construction.

**KnnNike** · June-22-22, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

For those of you who are impatiently waiting for the Hudson's block to finish... here's Gilbert's other major project [besides the Justice campus on E. Warren]... this $330 million project scheduled to be finished in later 2022...

I'm devastated that they went back on their word to have condos in this place. I spoke with Bedrock reps back in 2018 when we first moved to Detroit, and our plan was always to rent downtown until this place finished, and then purchase a condo. Once it became evident in late 2020 that the tide had turned, we bought elsewhere.

Now it's this B.S. Roost crap, and more apartments. I'm sure some of it could possibly be blamed on COVID. But more of it appears to be due to how the tax credits they get for the rehab are structured...a certain % of the building has to be "revenue producing" for a certain number of years. And that almost invariably means apartments...condos don't continue to produce revenue after the initial sale...

**southen** · June-22-22, 02:08 PM

It might be the market dictating that more than anything. Condos have not faired well in the city in the last decade with many projects shifting to apartments or dropping altogether because there hasn't been demand. Two projects to watch to see if that has shifted at all are Lafayette West and The Exchange. Both have condos included along with apartments and I think that may be a good barometer for where the city is at.

**Gistok** · June-22-22, 03:56 PM

^ I agree Southen... remember all the trouble they had in selling the condos at the top of the Book-Cadillac?

**southen** · June-22-22, 04:11 PM

Yup. I think City Modern might help push the tide towards more ownership in the greater downtown area but those are townhouses and carriage houses versus high rise living. With Detroit once being the city with the most single family homes in the country it might be a type of living that most aren't used to or don't find desirable.

**bigboat** · June-27-22, 08:34 PM

Observing the You Tube video today there has been rerod added to the top of the steel posts and there is something different about the top of the elevator shaft from what I can see in this video. The added rerod almost indicates continued upward construction will be completed with reinforced concrete.

**detroitbob** · June-28-22, 02:44 PM

Gary, HUDSONS is great but IMHO the BOOK is the most important project as it is a restoration and adaptation and the atrium and dome restoration is going to be the most spectacular space downtown.

**Gistok** · June-28-22, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

HUDSONS is great but IMHO the BOOK is the most important project as it is a restoration and adaptation and the atrium and dome restoration is going to be the most spectacular space downtown.

No doubt about it... it was one of the few large buildings downtown I was never in before it closed early this century... so looking forward to visiting the building completed.

Too bad the atrium dome was always monochrome glass... it would have been awesome to have a colorful dome like this hotel in Mexico City...

**djtomt** · June-29-22, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

No doubt about it... it was one of the few large buildings downtown I was never in before it closed early this century... so looking forward to visiting the building completed.

Too bad the atrium dome was always monochrome glass... it would have been awesome to have a colorful dome like this hotel in Mexico City...

I've been to this hotel. Gran Hotel Zocalo. The ceiling is by Tiffany. One of the most architecturally impressive hotels I've ever seen.

**casscorridor** · June-29-22, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by southen

Yup. I think City Modern might help push the tide towards more ownership in the greater downtown area but those are townhouses and carriage houses versus high rise living. With Detroit once being the city with the most single family homes in the country it might be a type of living that most aren't used to or don't find desirable.

Detroit having the most single-family homes, although epitomizing the "American dream," has not served the city well because now it's left with miles upon miles blighted low density sprawl. But rather than high rises representing the future, I think the so-called "missing middle" [[townhouses, medium rise apartments in a walkable setting, etc) is where it's at. City Modern certainly is that, but the price point is too high for ordinary middle class families.

And at the highest price points, why spend 2-3m on an apartment at the Hudson's block, when you could buy a much more spacious home with land in affluent areas such as Indian Village, Grosse Point, Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills? I'm willing to bet the market for these ultra-luxury apartments in Downtown Detroit is relatively small.

**313WX** · June-29-22, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Detroit having the most single-family homes, although epitomizing the "American dream," has not served the city well because now it's left with miles upon miles blighted low density sprawl. But rather than high rises representing the future, I think the so-called "missing middle" [[townhouses, medium rise apartments in a walkable setting, etc) is where it's at. City Modern certainly is that, but the price point is too high for ordinary middle class families.

And at the highest price points, why spend 2-3m on an apartment at the Hudson's block, when you could buy a much more spacious home with land in affluent areas such as Indian Village, Grosse Point, Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills? I'm willing to bet the market for these ultra-luxury apartments in Downtown Detroit is relatively small.

While Detroit has historically had a lot of single-family homes, I think the extent of their makeup is overexaggerated.

At its speak, Detroit had a similar population density to Philadelphia. You don't get that without having a ton of multi-family housing.

The difference between Detroit and Chicago along with other east coast cities is thst Detroit didn't have much in the way of tenements and rowhomes. Detroit's multi-family housing mostly consisted of duplexes and garden-style apartments.

It is true though that most of these types of multi-family housing was lost to first highways, then urban renewal, then the 1967 riots and lastly population decline as the inner city neighborhoods with the highest population density emptied out first.

**takascar** · June-29-22, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

That wont be 5 years ago until end of this December lol, almost a full year from now. Talk about exaggeration. It wasn't groundbreaking either, it was the start of removal of an underground parking garage. Actual groundbreaking wasn't until over a year later.

You must not watch a lot of big developments, this is hardly the longest for skyscraper construction and nowhere near longest for planning. It's also not just one skyscraper.

They don't have the know-how to build large things in Detroit. Salesforce Tower [[about 56 floors) in Chicago went from nothing to topped out in less than 2 years.

Detroit doesn't have the muscular GC's and steel / concrete workers who know how to hustle and get the job done

**takascar** · June-29-22, 09:46 PM

[QUOTE=bigboat;625767]

Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer

This is an update as of 6/16. No additional floors since ~4/28 [[~7 weeks ago). At this point it is quite difficult to envisioning the tower being done by 2024.

I'm no expert, but something does not seem right to me and many others. i hope this does not mean the tower is in for another re-design.

I think they are stuck and don't know how to finish it.

We should send you some of the boys from LendLease and Clark Construction and Hines - they are done with the Salesforce Tower [[topped off in less than 2 years).

**takascar** · June-29-22, 09:48 PM

[QUOTE=stasu1213;625824]

Originally Posted by bigboat

I think that Detroit is the only city that has this issue.

Chicago doesn't have this problem

**Burnsie** · June-29-22, 10:41 PM

Enough with the nonsense that Detroit's ironworkers don't know what they're doing. It's probably stalled because Gilbert still hasn't obtained the $60 million tax break.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...rt/7754964001/

"Bedrock insists that the abatement, which would freeze property taxes for 10 years, is necessary because of the project's high costs and low anticipated return-on-investment. The developer hasn't said what a rejection of the abatement would mean for the project and its construction schedule, which is already running two years behind.

Bedrock says the project's costs have jumped to $1.4 billion, up from $909 million at the December 2017 groundbreaking. Gilbert is said to be contributing about $1 billion in equity or cash, and Bedrock intends to borrow the other $400 million.

Gilbert's top lobbyist told some council members at a June 20 informational session that a bank is unwilling to loan Bedrock the $400 million unless the city approves the $60 million tax abatement."

**stinkytofu** · June-30-22, 12:26 AM

This all is becoming pretty cringe.

**Danny** · June-30-22, 10:39 AM

A debt collector that can't pay his debts. Come on Gilbert, you may have to sell some of your assets to offset the graft payments from your real estate arm and properties.

**southen** · June-30-22, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Your "proof of concern" has been proven wrong again and again and again and again and again. But the negative Nancies are still here projecting, back for more, never ending. Take responsibility for your own insecurities.

This hasn't aged well since Bedrock has said they can't get the financing they need to finish the project without the tax abatements...

**stinkytofu** · June-30-22, 08:45 PM

I'm not going to lie, it's quite annoying that Bedrock appears to be holding up vertical construction until they get this passed. They are basically holding the council hostage at this point.

**bigboat** · July-01-22, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

I'm not going to lie, it's quite annoying that Bedrock appears to be holding up vertical construction until they get this passed. They are basically holding the council hostage at this point.

Bedrock applied for this tax abatement last March and according to state law the Detroit Council is required to act on it within 60 days. So, not sure who is holding who hostage here.