Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Satiricalivory** · June-24-20, 06:18 PM

I'm a little confused. I've never heard of such a thing. What are some examples that are already built?

**JonWylie** · June-24-20, 06:39 PM

I did see some workers at the two old clothing stores there a few days ago. My best guess is that they were doing some sort of inspection of the buildings.

I heard a while back that the owners sold out to Gilbert but I don't know the official ownership.

**Atticus** · June-24-20, 06:48 PM

Good find.

The alley between that site and the “Compuware Parking Garage” is a logical southern extension of the Belt alley, on the north side of Gratiot. Hopefully extending the Belt Alley south and activating that space is part of the plan. It does appear there may be some ground level retail, with utilities above.

**Dexlin** · June-24-20, 07:18 PM

A central utilities plant is literally described in its name.

**EGrant** · June-25-20, 06:37 AM

Wow that is quite the design. Great find.

According to this, a Central Utility Plant produces steam "for heating, humidification, sterilization, and testing. The chilled water produced is used for comfort and equipment cooling.

The CUP is more energy efficient, reliable, and offers operational savings as compared to having decentralized boilers and chillers."

So maybe the Hudson, Monroe, 1CM and the new Greektown development could all be connected to this?

EDIT: One of the images is labeled "HudroeCup" and appears to be from Feb of 2019.

**Satiricalivory** · June-25-20, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dexlin

A central utilities plant is literally described in its name.

well obviously, but one with a visitors center and a design that looks like this? Where has it been done before?

**ndavies** · June-25-20, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

well obviously, but one with a visitors center and a design that looks like this? Where has it been done before?

In Detroit since 1903. Detroit thermal is still provide heating and cooling to Downtown and midtown. https://detroitthermal.com/

**Dexlin** · June-25-20, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

well obviously, but one with a visitors center and a design that looks like this? Where has it been done before?

Not even sure why this was a reply to my post. There were people asking what a CUP was. Well, it's literally in the name; it's a utility plant.

Surely, this would be a really nice and unique one, but people weren't asking about aesthetics.

**southen** · June-25-20, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

well obviously, but one with a visitors center and a design that looks like this? Where has it been done before?

I don't know if there are other examples of a visitors center or retail attached to these things but I think it is part of a greater push to make infrastructure a more interactive part of the urban landscape.

In Copenhagen they turned their waste to energy plant into a community asset by incorporating a ski slope and climbing wall.

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/10/08/bi...pe-copenhagen/

Adding retail or a visitor center with an emphasis on art isn't exactly the same thing but it turns a piece of necessary infrastructure into a downtown asset.

**NSortzi** · June-25-20, 02:27 PM

There used to be a steam plant directly next door to the building that houses Queens Bar that had a bank branch on the ground floor. It was later demolished and replaced by a stack I’m sure we all remember because of the huge clouds of steam it spewed. Shinola Hotel’s annex building is on the site now.

**EGrant** · June-25-20, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by NSortzi

There used to be a steam plant directly next door to the building that houses Queens Bar that had a bank branch on the ground floor. It was later demolished and replaced by a stack I’m sure we all remember because of the huge clouds of steam it spewed. Shinola Hotel’s annex building is on the site now.

That stack is now incorporated into the actual hotel. There's a few vents about 4 stories up on the corner of the annex portion.

**DetBill** · June-28-20, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

So just barely below the height of the Ren Cen. I really dont understand why they made this move honestly. Why hype a new tallest for years just to go barely below Detroit's tallest building? Why would they not just go slightly above? Just to say it's a new tallest at least and take the crown, lord knows they have the money.

I totally agree with you, they totally blew the bragging rights, years of hype, and assertion of taking Detroit into the century with a new landmark , by not going the extra 50 feet. I personally know many who totally lost interest now because of this. Its like running a 26.2 marathon, talking about it for five years, and stopping at mile 25..already the most common comment I hear is “ ren cen is bigger “ and not going to be the tallest anymore “ ..negative comments.....major lost opportunity, will never understand what they are thinking, hard time believing they dont have the money if they are going this far with it.

**313WX** · June-28-20, 07:30 PM

Another thing being discussed elsewhere is that there are signs that the crews are setting things up for an indefinite pause in construction once they finish the foundation work.

**shawring** · June-29-20, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Another thing being discussed elsewhere is that there are signs that the crews are setting things up for an indefinite pause in construction once they finish the foundation work.

where is that being discussed

**313WX** · June-29-20, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by shawring

where is that being discussed

Skyscraperpage

**shawring** · June-29-20, 09:22 AM

send the link please

**313WX** · June-29-20, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by shawring

send the link please

I don't believe I can do that [[may be against the rules).

Try Google searching it.

**Atticus** · June-29-20, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I don't believe I can do that [[may be against the rules).

Try Google searching it.

For what it is worth, the verbiage used on that site’s thread are phrases like “it appears” or inferring because not much has been done with the tower foundation. I am not arguing if they are correct or not, but none of their posts actually implies that someone has insider information. Rather, it appears to just be the observations and opinions of the said poster [[and not from someone official).

In my own uneducated opinion, once they finish the remaining caissons in the middle, they are probably going to have to remove the gravel ramp along the west side of the site to finish the last row of the block foundation. At that point I have no idea how the ground level will be accessed. Whether they will have to use the crain to lift and remove things in and out, or if the permanent loading dock ramps get constructed is beyond me.

It may have changed in design, but last I knew the permanent loading docks will be accessible street level from Gratioit on the southeast corner of the site. It doesn’t appear of much of that infrastructure has been constructed yet, though it’s hard to tell because that lower right part of the pit is obstructed in the daily videos.

**EGrant** · June-29-20, 10:58 AM

The post in question is speculation from one user, exactly a month ago, because it looks like they capped the rebar on the existing columns.

**313WX** · June-29-20, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by EGrant

The post in question is speculation from one user, exactly a month ago, because it looks like they capped the rebar on the existing columns.

It was actually a couple users who brought it up, and there were several other posts about it.

They also mentioned that a prominent developer from Chicago has apparently joined the project, so the "pause" could be to finalize the design.

**Satiricalivory** · June-29-20, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

The post in question is speculation from one user, exactly a month ago, because it looks like they capped the rebar on the existing columns.

Isn't rebar capping pretty common even in small scale construction? They're still doing drilling so I assume it's not good to have exposed rebar out like that until the how many months from now when they finally start going above street level. I don't see how that's a sign of anything being on hold, just kinda armchair speculation.

**hybridy** · June-29-20, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Where has it been done before?

Am an Architect - here’s my down and dirty explanation:
Central Plants are built for larger projects - [[hospitals, jails, etc). Most times they are incorporated into buildings, but due to site constraints they can be freestanding- or paired with anything [[ie. visitors center- likely due to zoning/street activation). They house electrical switchgear for normal and emergency power, fire and water pumps, boilers/chillers and additional mechanical equipment and staff to run all MEP systems [[Mech, Elec, Plumb). Larger air handlers and stacks will then sit on roof of actual structures on Woodward to discharge dirty air and pull in ‘fresh’ air to be conditioned and filtered for occupants.

Example:

Building in foreground is CUP to support larger tower beyond
http://webcampub.multivista.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=aPublicWebcam.page&WebcamPubl icPageUID=728E074A-EF77-4050-B2A4-F4DF99928BFC

**Dmberko11** · June-29-20, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

For what it is worth, the verbiage used on that site’s thread are phrases like “it appears” or inferring because not much has been done with the tower foundation. I am not arguing if they are correct or not, but none of their posts actually implies that someone has insider information. Rather, it appears to just be the observations and opinions of the said poster [[and not from someone official).

In my own uneducated opinion, once they finish the remaining caissons in the middle, they are probably going to have to remove the gravel ramp along the west side of the site to finish the last row of the block foundation. At that point I have no idea how the ground level will be accessed. Whether they will have to use the crain to lift and remove things in and out, or if the permanent loading dock ramps get constructed is beyond me.

It may have changed in design, but last I knew the permanent loading docks will be accessible street level from Gratioit on the southeast corner of the site. It doesn’t appear of much of that infrastructure has been constructed yet, though it’s hard to tell because that lower right part of the pit is obstructed in the daily videos.

Yep, that’s my opinion too.
I seriously doubt bedrock is gonna turn this into a “fail jail” so to speak and just let it rot after foundation work is done.
Speaking of skyscraper page, check out what they posted on page 300 about a possible corktown development. Keeping my hopes low but man that would be huge for the area

**Scottathew** · June-29-20, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I don't believe I can do that [[may be against the rules).

Try Google searching it.

I see no prohibition from doing that here: https://www.detroityes.com/mb/faq.ph...q#faq_therules

I've never had any issues linking to other places.

I'll find it though, I crave any information and speculation I can get my hands on for this project.

Thanks!

**MSUguy** · June-29-20, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

So just barely below the height of the Ren Cen. I really dont understand why they made this move honestly. Why hype a new tallest for years just to go barely below Detroit's tallest building? Why would they not just go slightly above? Just to say it's a new tallest at least and take the crown, lord knows they have the money.

It's pretty obvious they didn't get type tenant interest they thought they were going to get. Long after work started they were saying they were trying to nail down hotels. That was a big red flag. I think the slow pace was them just trying to buy more time, but eventually you have face reality. The project has to make financial sense you're not going build a 900ft building when you only fill 680ft.