Defend Planned Parenthood Saturday Feb. 11

[Jimaz]

Extra points to whoever first champions the life of a teratoma. Some people do!

[Zacha341]

Well just for the record a. I'm a woman, and a mother b. I've tried to be careful to use the words 'some' or 'more' when referring to black people on the subject - not ALL c. I've talked to many women and teens re. their abortion experiences d. I encourage people to research and talk to other Detroiters etc. about the subject/ outcomes. e. Per my advocation I help support, and affirm children and families socially and educationally.

I give as I can to a local Crisis Pregnancy center that helps mothers and their children during their pregnancies up thru two years old.

I bring up the racial emphasis as abortion's impacted our community at high levels. I don't think many are still debating this. Thankfully due to science we're somewhat beyond the dismissive 'clump-of-cells' rhetoric. I wonder if VP Harris will make a Detroit stop to show us the positives of abortion-on-demand? She might get some protestors - not wearing red MAGA hats. Much of Europe has restrictions but I guess we're much smarter!

[southen]

Crisis pregnancy centers that I have read about that don't actually perform healthcare and can be run out of vans and promote anti-abortion agendas? You give to a place that performs pseudo-science and pseudo-healthcare with an agenda. Planned Parenthood provides ALL of the information one needs to make a decision, not just resources that fit an agenda.

You never actually mentioned if you had spoken to individuals that have gotten an abortion. You also haven't explained how this isn't the choice of an individual or provided evidence that groups are being forced into a procedure. It is clear through your advocacy and opinion that you simply don't like it and that is enough of a reason for you to make sure nobody else can get one.

"Clump of cells" seems relevant because anti-abortion folks want to call something a child or person despite the fact that most abortions happen before a fetus can survive outside of the womb and is still entirely dependent on the mother for everything. Personally if my partner and I were struggling with a decision and the fetus got to the point of viability outside of the womb I would strongly advocate for options beyond abortion, but you can't have that conversation or find common ground when your answer is simply 'NO'.

[Zacha341]

^ I edited my comment adding that I have spoken to women and teens about abortion. Read my earlier posts where I talk about the former construct that abortion be safe and rare [instead of an inshrined article-of-faith sacrament as it's going in the US]. As I stated many people could accept the safe and rare option applied early in pregnancy.

I think everyone will have it their way ultimately.

For the mother desiring to keep her child you'll never read an invite stating welcome to 'my fetus shower'. Nope. For others the life-dependent status is the sole qualifier for who's affirmed/lives.

[southen]

I think everyone will have it there way ultimately.

Unless you live in a state that decides you cannot have one and you don't have the means to travel 1-2 states over to receive the care you need. Or how about the states that want to penalize you, possibly jail you, even if you can leave and get the care? Instead you are forcing people, many of whom are already in poverty, to bear children regardless of reason or stage of pregnancy. Youre reinforcing the cycle of poverty because once the child arrives, those on the right refuse to fund anything to help a parent. So no, not everyone will have it their way. Many will have it YOUR way and have to suffer the consequences.

[Zacha341]

Not my way. It is a choice to affirm or not. Which does not necessarily lead to poverty -- lest a few of us MAY NOT HAVE MADE IT at the times our parents [or mother] were struggling. You dig?

Is black life valued only if the rich can have kids? How about the those within the two-child minimum? Or maybe if the child birth scores a certain ESG? Or IQ [Sanger's idea]. Where's THIS HEADED?

We REALLY need to listen/ hear ourselves!

Where is the hope?

There are those who 'were' abortion-minded who went on to have their children -- their economics and social changing for the better, excellent in some cases. It varies. HOW DID THEY BREAK THE CYCLE OF POVERTY?

What is their story? Useless, false, or a lie?

This is why it's so crucial to talk to those who experienced HAVING children despite challenges. Not just the abortion side.

And who has determined that not anyone helps? How do you know? On the other hand are Pregnancy Crisis centers only run/ funded by the 'eh right-winged, maga, religious folk?

Yes, it's far easy to 'other' and 'them' ideas and options to negate them.

You're reinforcing the cycle of poverty because once the child arrives, those on the right refuse to fund anything to help a parent. So no, not everyone will have it their way. Many will have it YOUR way and have to suffer the consequences.

[Richard]

Unless you live in a state that decides you cannot have one and you don't have the means to travel 1-2 states over to receive the care you need. Or how about the states that want to penalize you, possibly jail you, even if you can leave and get the care? Instead you are forcing people, many of whom are already in poverty, to bear children regardless of reason or stage of pregnancy. Youre reinforcing the cycle of poverty because once the child arrives, those on the right refuse to fund anything to help a parent. So no, not everyone will have it their way. Many will have it YOUR way and have to suffer the consequences.

Over 22 Trillion has spent on the war on poverty in 60 years without reducing the level of poverty how exactly does that translate into those on the right refuse to do anything to help a parent?

They made OTC birth control easily available so there are options,like personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place.

In the county I am in only 23 % of those in poverty or low income and qualify,actually signed up for no cost healthcare where they would have received no cost birth control,but they did not.

And the county I live in is anything but right wing.

[Richard]

^ because you’re computer is programmed to your search style and only wants to show you what it thinks you want to see,in a biased kind way.

Florida is probably considered a conservative state and there are no counties that do not offer child health care if you cannot afford it .

The government was never intended to be your nanny.

[Gistok]

^ because you’re computer is programmed to your search style and only wants to show you what it thinks you want to see,in a biased kind way.

Exactly... which we have all noticed that in some of your legendary long cut and pastes. The search engines placate to our whims and fancies.

[ABetterDetroit]

Well just for the record a. I'm a woman, and a mother b. I've tried to be careful to use the words 'some' or 'more' when referring to black people on the subject - not ALL c. I've talked to many women and teens re. their abortion experiences d. I encourage people to research and talk to other Detroiters etc. about the subject/ outcomes. e. Per my advocation I help support, and affirm children and families socially and educationally.

I give as I can to a local Crisis Pregnancy center that helps mothers and their children during their pregnancies up thru two years old.

I bring up the racial emphasis as abortion's impacted our community at high levels. I don't think many are still debating this. Thankfully due to science we're somewhat beyond the dismissive 'clump-of-cells' rhetoric. I wonder if VP Harris will make a Detroit stop to show us the positives of abortion-on-demand? She might get some protestors - not wearing red MAGA hats. Much of Europe has restrictions but I guess we're much smarter!

I would be very surprised if VP Harris did not come to Detroit during the campaign.

What is fascinating though is your personal experience with your peers and your shared feelings that the MAGA party will give you a larger political voice. Do you feel that ‘Making America Great Again’ like it was sometime in the past will be much better for black women? I respect your experiences and opinions based on them so I am curious on when exactly it was ‘Great’ for you and other Detroit black women?

[Richard]

I would be very surprised if VP Harris did not come to Detroit during the campaign.

What is fascinating though is your personal experience with your peers and your shared feelings that the MAGA party will give you a larger political voice. Do you feel that ‘Making America Great Again’ like it was sometime in the past will be much better for black women? I respect your experiences and opinions based on them so I am curious on when exactly it was ‘Great’ for you and other Detroit black women?

That’s base on a flawed look ,Build Back Better is Make America Great Again - just reworded and carried forward programs that started under the previous administration.

The infrastructure bill would have been DOA under this administration because they are based on shovel ready projects,infrastructure takes 3-5 years to go through the process to be shovel ready.

There is plenty of evidence out there that shows African Americans did do better in that time frame and have now slipped back under,but not just African Americans,everybody that was medium to low income is feeling the pain.

But that is cause and effect of the virus and flooding the country with cash which de-valued it,which will be a case study forever because they refused to take that approach during the depression so it was either no help and drag it out for the next 5 years or more or throw a bunch of cash at it and bring it to a close quickly but any way you do it you are going to pay the piper and it is always medium and low income that it hurts the most.

Not sure why VP Harris would come to Detroit,as far as the city is concerned,your representation that covers a majority of the city is off on her own personal agenda so for the most part she is censored,right along with you and your voice,so VP Harris showing up would be considered supporting a cause that is against the party.

It’s entirely possible to take a stance without cutting your nose off to spite your face.

When it comes to planned parenthood,that’s not the Right sitting up there you had your chance to convince her to create policy more to your liking,that was why the Supreme Court made that decision,to give you your voice back at the state level,you cannot blame on everybody else when the ball is in your court and you drop it.

Democracy kicks in at the local and state level,if the majority rule,then that’s what happens,the system is not tailored to individuals.

[Zacha341]

I doubt now VP. Harris is coming to Detroit to talk to use about anything. Especially if she tries to ply Detroiters with affirming that migrant crisis. We already know what that move is - displacing us.

If you're asking me to use the MAGA construct to affirm a view or defend better vs. bad vs. great. I'd have to say we don't need it. Per its political detractors MAGA is often used a canard/ joke as America was NEVER great so they will say - then on goes the long list of how it wasn't. Got that.

Beyond the politics of the extreme left vs. right: Ask most people TODAY if they feel America is getting any better? Hmm, eh NO. Exactly.

Black people have always been pawned and ascribed. What impacts the nation doubly impacts us. We've had greater times when our families were more intact. This is a fact. We know America is not perfectly great and don't see our rapid replacement as exactly 'affirming' either.

As I've stated neither MAGA ideology or religion is a requirement for black people and others to finally question abortion-on-demand.

Where MAGA aligns to some of our views and values in general so be it. But not necessary. As I stated 'we're' not wearing red MAGA hats where we protest abortion. Don't need that permission.

Many will continue to conflate blacks [and black women] not falling-in-line-view on certain issues as MAGA inspired; what we define as great also constrained.

So be it -- we're always told we can't think on our own. By our friends and our foes [past and present].

I would be very surprised if VP Harris did not come to Detroit during the campaign.

What is fascinating though is your personal experience with your peers and your shared feelings that the MAGA party will give you a larger political voice. Do you feel that ‘Making America Great Again’ like it was sometime in the past will be much better for black women? I respect your experiences and opinions based on them so I am curious on when exactly it was ‘Great’ for you and other Detroit black women?

[southen]

As I've stated neither MAGA ideology or religion is a requirement for black people and others to finally question abortion-on-demand.

You're just gonna keep pushing that false "on-demand" crap eh?

Anyone here ever get upset that god seemed to intervene quite a bit when the bible was being written but avoids lifting a finger these days with all of the baby murders? Thousands of kids being killed in Gaza and nothing? Could make one think that the whole damn book is allegory, you know?

[canuck]

You're just gonna keep pushing that false "on-demand" crap eh?

Anyone here ever get upset that god seemed to intervene quite a bit when the bible was being written but avoids lifting a finger these days with all of the baby murders? Thousands of kids being killed in Gaza and nothing? Could make one think that the whole damn book is allegory, you know?

Plus ça change...

@The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn/. from the Wikipedia article.

In 1905, New York's Brooklyn Public Library also banned the book due to "bad word choice" and Huck’s having "not only itched but scratched" within the novel, which was considered obscene. When asked by a Brooklyn librarian about the situation, Twain sardonically replied:


I am greatly troubled by what you say. I wrote 'Tom Sawyer' & ‘Huck Finn' for adults exclusively, & it always distressed me when I find that boys and girls have been allowed access to them. The mind that becomes soiled in youth can never again be washed clean. I know this by my own experience, & to this day I cherish an unappeased bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was 15 years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean sweet breath again on this side of the grave.

[Henry Whalley]

Build Back Better Act - Wikipedia

[Warrenite84]

First question. If a frozen embryo is allowed to die not implanted it could be considered murder if willful. If through equipment failure perhaps negligent homicide. IMHO all embryos should be allowed to develop. Interestingly, I have heard that unwanted human embryos can be adopted now. That is good news.

Yes, I can see your question about the second point. It was a bit off topic. More of a general comment.

[Henry Whalley]

...human embryos can be adopted now

Do they go through a standard adoption process?

[Warrenite84]

I am not familiar with the adoption process.

[oladub]

I am not familiar with the adoption process.

"is he still alive?
Yes, yes, he is."

I have a cousin who was adopted out at her birth. She became a nurse, married, had four children and grandchildren. She grew up in a wealthy and loving adoptive home. As an adult, she was told by the adoption agency who her biological parents were. They had married two years after she was born. She once parked in front of her biological parents' house but did not have the nerve to knock on the door and introduce herself. I was told that story by her daughter.

I have another successful cousin who discovered that he had a different father than he thought when he read his mother's youthful diary after his mother died. His maternal grandmother would not let her daughter marry my uncle. His mother then married another man who claimed the baby as his own.

A third cousin corrected me when I was lamenting that her brother had no children prior to being killed. She corrected me and sent me a photo of her now grown up niece who is now an artist with exhibitions.

DNA turned up another 'first or second cousin". I wrote the lady but did not receive a response. Maybe she didn't know that the father who had done all the work of raising her wasn't her biological father. Or maybe she was just curious who her biological family is.

I am thankful to the women who didn't abort my cousins and to men who stepped up as step fathers to get them raised. Adoption isn't the only alternative to abortion. They made it possible for the world to have another nurse, industrial safely engineer and an artist.

[southen]

Actually many muslims are okay with abortion as are many jews. It is the Christian right in this country that has taken the mantle on legislating by their book.

It might be hard to believe but despite things being okay in Michigan I think it is silly that a woman's right to bodily autonomy depends on how religious of a state one lives in. Abortions will continue to happen and people with means will still be able to leave whatever backwoods state they are in to get healthcare. It is the people who CAN'T afford to do that that I worry about. There are plenty of examples already how restricting this care is impacting women.

I have to keep asking this question, how would you feel if Muslims were legislating by their book? What if somehow the court was packed with religious zealots of a different stripe? Would you be so welcoming to that kind of rule as you are when it is your religious group?

[oladub]

Actually many muslims are okay with abortion as are many jews. It is the Christian right in this country that has taken the mantle on legislating by their book.

From Wikipedia, "In all, there are 57 members in the Organization of Islamic Conference—an organisation of countries with Muslim majorities or pluralities. Most Muslim countries have restrictive abortion laws that permit abortions only when the life of the mother is threatened. Twelve members of the Organization of Islamic Conference allow unrestricted access to abortion. With the exception of Turkey and Tunisia, they are mainly former Soviet Bloc states. Bahrain, a politically and socially conservative Muslim state, is the 12th among these countries to permit unrestricted access to abortion. Among socially conservative Muslim countries, seven countries permit abortion in the first 4 months of gestation for fetal deformities, four countries in Sub-saharan Africa [[Benin, Burkina Faso, Chad and Guinea) and three in the Middle East [[Kuwait, Qatar and, now, Iran)"

It might be hard to believe but despite things being okay in Michigan I think it is silly that a woman's right to bodily autonomy depends on how religious of a state one lives in. Abortions will continue to happen and people with means will still be able to leave whatever backwoods state they are in to get healthcare. It is the people who CAN'T afford to do that that I worry about. There are plenty of examples already how restricting this care is impacting women.

I have to keep asking this question, how would you feel if Muslims were legislating by their book? What if somehow the court was packed with religious zealots of a different stripe? Would you be so welcoming to that kind of rule as you are when it is your religious group?

You ignore the 10th. Amendment. Abortion is still legal as a state prerogative as it always has been. Some states like Oregon were freed by the Supreme Court to allow abortions up to deliveries just as other states were free to get rid of abortion. That's how democracy works.

I already posted on this thread expressing my support for state based versions of Rowe vs. Wade slightly adjusted to reflect medical advances since 1973. I also supported free speech. Laws should be guided by how people vote and the Constitution rather than how you or I "feel".

[Henry Whalley]

...silly that a woman's right to bodily autonomy depends on how religious of a state one lives in.

The silliness stems from theologians who "may indulge the pleasing task of describing Religion as she descended from Heaven, arrayed in her native purity. A more melancholy duty is imposed on the historian. He must discover the inevitable mixture of error and corruption which she contracted in a long residence upon Earth, among a weak and degenerate race of beings.”

― Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Warrenite84]

Like I mentioned earlier. I totally support bodily autonomy. The pre born baby has a different genetic makeup from the mother so they are distinct from each other.

There is a great movie I recommend called, "Unplanned". It is a true story of a woman who had two abortions, one was chemical, who became a manager of a Planned Parenthood facility. She later discovered when assisting in an abortion that the "fetus" was sentient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBLWpKbC3ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A16gzm9eaa8

[Henry Whalley]

...true story

Unplanned - Wikipedia

[Warrenite84]

Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and millions already have.

-Not quite an expert, peer reviewed site.

Care to discredit the veracity of the person in the next video?