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  1. #51

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    Coleman Young Jr. officially announces his candidacy. [where I have I heard that name before? ]

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...aign/98353486/

  2. #52

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    Unfortunately, I don't think Coleman Young Jr. has a very good chance at winning.

    This is no longer 1987. Most Detroiters I talk to (who in hindshigt realized how badly the city declined during Young Sr.'s administration) have moved on from that era and don't want to go back.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddz313 View Post
    CAYs name still reigns high to many black Detroiters, Blacks think of him as a savior and white's think of him as the devil. He was neither, main problem is that he was in the position for too long. After his first 3 terms he most should have been gone for sure. The city is still 80% African American, so I don't know how big the white vote will be in the city. The ministry still is number one followed by the business community in terms of votes and financial/organization power. Young Jr will try to utilize the down and dirty people like Mongo/Riddle to rile up the disenfranchised.
    See my post above. I tend to agree with Calltoaction.

    The fact is the remaining bloc of Detroit voters who are still #CAYorbust (I.E. mostly baby boomers and those from the silent generation) is getting increasingly smaller. In fact, to younger Detroiters, CAY epitomizes the factors that led to the city becoming the hell hole they must live in today. You witnessned this with Benny Napoleon of all people losing a write-in election against a white man from Livonia.

    This is not to suggest CAY was a bad mayor (for all of his flaws, he did *OK* in ensuring the city functioned relatively well despite the rapidly shrinking pool of resources available to him) nor that CAY Jr. wouldn't be a good mayor. But for him to become mayor would in my mind symbolize a return to what seemed to be (until now) a bygone era in Detroit's politics.
    Last edited by 313WX; February-25-17 at 01:54 PM.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddz313 View Post
    Should have put many and it's in the context of politicians, sort of like how many republicans feel about Reagan. If you do not think this is pretty accurate, well you spent too much time up in East Lansing
    Going forward, I don't think history is going to be very kind to folks like Ronald Reagan, Bill / Hillary Clinton and Margaret Thatcher.

    Sure, they were see as saviors at the time because they happen to preside over the country during an era in which the computer and internet were revolutionizing the world and when cheap credit was virtually growing on trees, but with wealth inequality now reaching levels not seen since the Great Depression and the world being crushed under unprecedented amounts of debt, people are beginning to realize how badly their policies have screwed them over in hindsight.

    Brexit and also the rise of people like Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders in the past election (with establishment candidates such as Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush suffering humiliating losses) I think symbolizes this shift.
    Last edited by 313WX; February-25-17 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    See my post above. I tend to agree with Calltoaction.

    The fact is the remaining bloc of Detroit voters who are still #CAYorbust (I.E. mostly baby boomers and those from the silent generation) is getting increasingly smaller. In fact, to younger Detroiters, CAY epitomizes the factors that led to the city becoming the hell hole they must live in today. You witnessned this with Benny Napoleon of all people losing a write-in election against a white man from Livonia.

    This is not to suggest CAY was a bad mayor (for all of his flaws, he did *OK* in ensuring the city functioned relatively well despite the rapidly shrinking pool of resources available to him) nor that CAY Jr. wouldn't be a good mayor. But for him to become mayor would in my mind symbolize a return to what seemed to be (until now) a bygone era in Detroit's politics.
    Yet CAY Jr. went from selling Brassiere Burgers to State Rep. I do hope you're right.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; February-25-17 at 06:44 PM.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't think Coleman Young Jr. has a very good chance at winning.

    This is no longer 1987. Most Detroiters I talk to (who in hindshigt realized how badly the city declined during Young Sr.'s administration) have moved on from that era and don't want to go back.
    Unfortunately? LOL

    I hope to god you're right.

  7. #57

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    Having CAY Jr. for Mayor of Detroit is like having Donald Trump for President. NO MORE DYNASTIES.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Going forward, I don't think history is going to be very kind to folks like Ronald Reagan, Bill / Hillary Clinton and Margaret Thatcher.
    Bill/Hill = Ron&Margaret?
    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Sure, they were see as saviors at the time because they happen to preside over the country during an era in which the computer and internet were revolutionizing the world and when cheap credit was virtually growing on trees, but with wealth inequality now reaching levels not seen since the Great Depression and the world being crushed under unprecedented amounts of debt...
    Reagan: 1981-1989 Thatcher: 1979-1990 Internet: early 90s broad adoption.
    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    , people are beginning to realize how badly their policies (wealth inequality/debt) have screwed them over in hindsight.
    I hereby nominate Thomas Pickety in the fiction category for Best Meaningless but Compelling Statistic.

    He brilliantly placed Income (now wealth) Inequality into the limelight, and made it a rallying cry of the naive.

    Economic Inequality is surely important to measure. Yet its unclear that it is causing societal harm. I too am concerned about economic concentration, but isn't the more important concern general health & welfare of all peoples? By nearly every measure, it has improved dramatically. So let's keep an eye on inequality. But let's not forget that overall, health and welfare are improving. Just heard Jeffrey Sachs say that it is widely assumed that abject poverty is in remission, and we expect to see the end of abject poverty worldwide within a generation.
    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Brexit and also the rise of people like Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders in the past election (with establishment candidates such as Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush suffering humiliating losses) I think symbolizes this shift.
    Ironically, if people do not believe our society is respecting people and is rigged against them, they don't only vote for Democrats, they vote for Trumps. The Democratic fright against inequality just might have helped The Donald, IMO -- as it played into people's feelings of injustice. Little did the Democrats think that they were the cause of some feelings of injustice -- but 49% of the population thought they were.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    See my post above. I tend to agree with Calltoaction.

    The fact is the remaining bloc of Detroit voters who are still #CAYorbust (I.E. mostly baby boomers and those from the silent generation) is getting increasingly smaller. In fact, to younger Detroiters, CAY epitomizes the factors that led to the city becoming the hell hole they must live in today. You witnessned this with Benny Napoleon of all people losing a write-in election against a white man from Livonia.

    This is not to suggest CAY was a bad mayor (for all of his flaws, he did *OK* in ensuring the city functioned relatively well despite the rapidly shrinking pool of resources available to him) nor that CAY Jr. wouldn't be a good mayor. But for him to become mayor would in my mind symbolize a return to what seemed to be (until now) a bygone era in Detroit's politics.
    Hey, what whiteman from Livonia? That whiteman lived on Stansbury right off of fenkell until he was 5 years old. Technically he's from Detroit.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    Bill/Hill = Ron&Margaret?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

    ...During her tenure as Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher oversaw a number of neoliberal reforms including tax reduction, reforming exchange rates, deregulation and privatization.[69] These reforms were continued and supported by her successor John Major but although opposed by the Labour Party at the time, were largely left unaltered when the latter came to power in 1997. Instead the Labour government under Tony Blair finished off a variety of uncompleted privatisation and deregulation measures...[70]

    ...Early roots of neoliberalism were laid in the 1970s, during the Jimmy Carter administration, with deregulation of the trucking, banking, and airline industries.[75][76][77] This trend continued into the 1980s, under the Reagan Administration, which included tax cuts, increased defense spending, financial deregulation and trade deficit expansion.[78] Likewise, concepts of supply-side economics, discussed by the Democrats in the 1970s, culminated in the 1980 Joint Economic Committee report, "Plugging in the Supply Side." This was picked up and advanced by the Reagan administration, with Congress following Reagan's basic proposal and cutting federal income taxes across the board by 25% in 1981.[79]

    During the 1990s, the Clinton Administration also embraced neoliberalism[70] by supporting the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement, continuing the deregulation of the financial sector through passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act, and implementing cuts to the welfare state through passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act.[78][80][81] The neoliberalism of the Clinton Administration differs from that of Reagan, as the Clinton Administration purged neoliberalism of neoconservative positions on militarism, family values, opposition to multiculturalism and neglect of ecological issues...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats

    ...The first wave New Democrats, from the 1980s to 1990s, were very similar to Southern and Western Blue Dog Democrats. Al From, the founder of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and its leader until 2009, had been a staffer for Willis Chong, a Democratic representative from Louisiana. Among the presidents of the DLC were Al Gore, senator from Tennessee, and Bill Clinton, governor of Arkansas. The first wave New Democrats sought the votes of white working-class Reagan Democrats.[9]

    In the 1990s, the New Democrat movement shifted away from the South and West and moved to the Northeast. In the 1992 United States presidential election, Bill Clinton was elected president.[9]
    The 1994 United States midterm elections not only gave Republicans control of the House and Senate, but wiped out Democrats in the South and West....[10]

    ...On March 10, 2009, Barack Obama, in a meeting with the New Democrat Coalition, told them that he was a "New Democrat", "pro-growth Democrat", that he "supports free and fair trade", and was "very concerned about a return to protectionism."[11]

    As presidents, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama both reflected the priorities of the second New Democrat coalition, uniting donors from Wall Street, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley with a “new majority” coalition of racial minorities, immigrants, liberal women, and young voters. Because Democratic voters are disproportionately poor, this has produced a Democratic Party that, in economic terms, is an hourglass coalition of the top and the bottom. Economic populism frightens the party’s billionaire donors. The result is what Mike Konczal and others have called “pity-charity” liberalism—a kind of liberalism that appeals to the sympathy of the rich for the poor, rather than appealing, as the New Deal did, to solidarity among the middling majority...[9]
    Last edited by 313WX; February-26-17 at 02:43 PM.

  11. #61

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    313, I can sorta see the similarities, if I put on my distortion glasses. That they have similar neoliberal attributes expressed in very different ways does not make them a valid class in my math. I trust that you believe that we need newer Democrats who rely on more strident redistribution of wealth using governmental power rather than relying on the evil market?

    But let's bring this back to Detroit. What's the connection here? Duggan seems to be improving Detroit by improving Detroit's climate (street lights, busses, administrative reforms, business-friendly). This doesn't seem to make him a Newest Democrat-Socialist of the Sanders mold. Am I getting close?

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch View Post
    But let's bring this back to Detroit. What's the connection here? Duggan seems to be improving Detroit by improving Detroit's climate (street lights, busses, administrative reforms, business-friendly). This doesn't seem to make him a Newest Democrat-Socialist of the Sanders mold. Am I getting close?
    My post was in response to someone who mentioned the fact that so many people consider folks like Reagan/Thatcher, Clinton/Blair and Obama/Trudeau messiahs, as I think history will judge them quite harshly.

    I could be wrong though.

  13. #63

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    My wife reminded me that CAYII was born Joel Loving, and raised in California. Don't see how that stays out of this race.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    My post was in response to someone who mentioned the fact that so many people consider folks like Reagan/Thatcher, Clinton/Blair and Obama/Trudeau messiahs, as I think history will judge them quite harshly.

    I could be wrong though.
    . But have you seen that recent butt pic of Trudeau? That's divinely inspired

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast View Post
    . But have you seen that recent butt pic of Trudeau? That's divinely inspired
    Is it as inspiring as Obama's six pack?

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy View Post
    My wife reminded me that CAYII was born Joel Loving, and raised in California. Don't see how that stays out of this race.
    It needs to stay in this race. People need to bring this up constantly and inform the public. This man hadn't lived in Detroit, wasn't born or raised here or even in this state. He is an outsider that is going to try to stir emotions among people who believe CAY was a savior to the city.

    We cannot allow that to happen. He announced his candidacy saying we "need change". This is a FALSE narrative he is going to play up and we must not let him. Duggan has done an admirable job putting the neighborhoods first and fixing the city. We must allow the momentum to continue and allow him to turn his focus during his next term on the schools. Joel Loving/CAYII will harm this city if he is elected.

  17. #67

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    Curious. I can't find any official campaign web pages or event announcements regarding Young. Who is managing his campaign? What 'consultants' are in the mix?

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyles View Post
    Curious. I can't find any official campaign web pages or event announcements regarding Young. Who is managing his campaign? What 'consultants' are in the mix?
    Seems like Adolph Mongo will be muddying it up w racial exploits, It will be the usual Mongo/riddle/pick a bigot ticket

  19. #69

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    Since Young was a state senator, I'm surprised that he's going for a mayoral run instead of the governor's race in 2018. Since he's term limited in the senate, he could have started a community assistance nonprofit, maybe focused on voter education and accessibility.

  20. #70

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    I've had enough interaction with the Duggan team to have criticisms of them, but, let's be honest: Duggan is in a whole 'nother weight class compared to CAY Jr. Duggan is a professional city manager who counts widgets and makes them move. CAY has been nothing more than a loudmouth obstructionist during his tenure in Lansing, and he would bring few qualifications or skills to the mayorship in Detroit.

    1953

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1953 View Post
    I've had enough interaction with the Duggan team to have criticisms of them, but, let's be honest: Duggan is in a whole 'nother weight class compared to CAY Jr. Duggan is a professional city manager who counts widgets and makes them move. CAY has been nothing more than a loudmouth obstructionist during his tenure in Lansing, and he would bring few qualifications or skills to the mayorship in Detroit.
    1953
    Ever since the 60s, the world is so focused on bringing down anyone who doesn't meet all of the standards for perfection. Duggan may not be perfect in all ways, but it does seem clear that he's pretty good in a lot of ways.

    CAY #1, for all his foibles, was appropriate for his time. His flaws were massive, but so were his strengths. I think Detroit could have done better, but we also could have done worse.

    Today we don't need a CAY#1, let alone a CAY wanna-be. Detroit's future is now officially post-racial, and now based on quality.

  22. #72

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    The first poll is in and has Duggan up 46-21 over Young Jr.....http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...s#.WM_VunczU2w

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyles View Post
    Since Young was a state senator, I'm surprised that he's going for a mayoral run instead of the governor's race in 2018. Since he's term limited in the senate, he could have started a community assistance nonprofit, maybe focused on voter education and accessibility.
    Young is not a plausible winning candidate statewide. I assume he knows that, and would prefer to run someplace he might be able to win.

  24. #74

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    CY2 is unlikely to win this time around but he's smart to keep his name out there. He's young and has time. Duggan won't be there forever. I would be surprised to see him take a shot at guv.

    From what I have seen of CY2 he is smart, jovial, an excellent public speaker and a competent legislator. He is definitely a rising star.

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowell View Post
    CY2 is unlikely to win this time around but he's smart to keep his name out there. He's young and has time. Duggan won't be there forever. I would be surprised to see him take a shot at guv.

    From what I have seen of CY2 he is smart, jovial, an excellent public speaker and a competent legislator. He is definitely a rising star.
    Name recognition is not a good way to select leaders.

    Unfortunately it seems to Trump everything else these days.

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