Michigan now has highest gas tax in the nation

**Canadian Visitor** · January-01-17, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

LOL! WOW, what does any of that have to do with my situation? Are you suggesting I should succumb to higher taxes to somehow appease everyone else's situation? If you don't like being gouged in your part of the world, and don't feel you're getting your money's worth, then either work to change it or move.

I don't recall saying anything about feeling hard done by.

My point was that you are not.

If you are paying the cheapest price in the developed world for something; and you bitch and moan cause the price rises, to the point where its still the cheapest in the developed world, your being irrational.

Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.

Your complaints seem to suggest that you think Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.

Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is by raising taxes.

If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).

A ten mile [[16km) drive will cost you $10.42 Cdn without a transponder.

Or just over $6 with; but you'll pay monthly fee of $3.75 for the transponder.

Can't afford that? No highway for you.

**clubboss** · January-01-17, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

I don't recall saying anything about feeling hard done by.

My point was that you are not.

If you are paying the cheapest price in the developed world for something; and you bitch and moan cause the price rises, to the point where its still the cheapest in the developed world, your bring irrational.

Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.

Your complaints seem to suggest that you think. Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.

Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is raising taxes.

If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).

A ten mile [[16km) drive will cost you $10.42 Cdn without a transponder.

Or just over $6 with; but you'll pay monthly fee of $3.75 for the transponder.

Can't afford that? No highway for you.

Good analogy, and you managed it without the use of name calling or Instant Messaging acronyms.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-01-17, 10:00 AM

Clearly by the lack of emphasis people put on fuel efficiency in their choice of vehicles to drive in Michigan there is little thought of the personal expense or an economic determent to the fuel tax.

A regional fuel tax is the proven way to pay for public transport. It makes little sense that it has not been utilized.

**Honky Tonk** · January-01-17, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

I don't recall saying anything about feeling hard done by.

My point was that you are not.

If you are paying the cheapest price in the developed world for something; and you bitch and moan cause the price rises, to the point where its still the cheapest in the developed world, your being irrational.

Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.

Your complaints seem to suggest that you think Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.

Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is by raising taxes.

If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).

A ten mile [[16km) drive will cost you $10.42 Cdn without a transponder.

Or just over $6 with; but you'll pay monthly fee of $3.75 for the transponder.

Can't afford that? No highway for you.

Speaking of bitching and moaning, you seem to be doing one hell of a job when someone shoots down your pointless post. I feel bad Canadians are over paying for their highway usage, but again, that has little to do with me or my situation. Anyway, you must still be drunk from last night's celebration because now you've taken to interjecting false statements and using hard facts like "you think". Reread my "bitching and moaning" response post again. [[perhaps a few times?) We, here in MI, have for years been already paying into a roads and bridges tax. Money that should have been set aside for that, was moved to a "general fund", and used elsewhere. Now MI residents are being taxed again, because we're short on funding. Make sense? As long as that money is being kept in that fund, and can be voted on, by our legislative body, to be appropriated elsewhere, history will keep repeating itself. Anyway, Happy 2017, eh?

**Zacha341** · January-01-17, 10:09 AM

^^^ Yet, some will adapt to continue their option to drive their personal cars: My primary vehicle is an older mid-sized sedan, with a small block V6 engine [[it was the best car for the money at the time). I plan my drives strategically, the car coasts great so I am not lead-foot for acceleration or heavy-foot for braking, so I don't have to change my brakes often either.

My next car will be a four cylinder as I have owned them before.

**Cliffy** · January-01-17, 10:10 AM

I bought a new car this year and it's a 4 cylinder and I'm surprised how "peppy" it is and I was coming from a V8. It's not as fast as a V8 of course but it drives pretty good on the freeway and most importantly I'm ready for $4 gallon prices.

I voted for the mileage for public transportation and now that I think about it, I'm glad it was voted down. I don't use nor will I ever use the bus. I noticed gas prices went up this morning to reflect the gas tax and then add another 20% in registration fees... I don't want to pay another $100 on my property taxes considering my winter taxes jumped $120 for a school millage. I'm taxed the hell out.

**Honky Tonk** · January-01-17, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

I don't recall saying anything about feeling hard done by.

My point was that you are not.

If you are paying the cheapest price in the developed world for something; and you bitch and moan cause the price rises, to the point where its still the cheapest in the developed world, your being irrational.

Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.

Your complaints seem to suggest that you think Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.

Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is by raising taxes.

If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).

A ten mile [[16km) drive will cost you $10.42 Cdn without a transponder.

Or just over $6 with; but you'll pay monthly fee of $3.75 for the transponder.

Can't afford that? No highway for you.

Speaking of bitching and moaning, you seem to do one hell of a job when someone shoots down your pointless post. I feel bad Canadians are over paying for their highway usage, but again, that has little to do with me or my situation. Anyway, you must still be drunk from last night's celebration because now you've taken to interjecting false statements I've made, and using cold hard facts like "you think". Reread my "bitching and moaning" response post again. [[perhaps a few times?) We, here in MI, have for years been already paying into a roads and bridges tax. Money that should have been set aside for the repair and maintenance of, was moved into a "general fund", and used elsewhere. Now MI residents are being taxed again, because we're short on funding. Make sense? As long as that money is being kept in that fund, and can be voted on, by our legislative body, to be appropriated elsewhere, history will keep repeating itself. Anyway, Happy 2017, eh?

**Zacha341** · January-01-17, 10:33 AM

Yeah it lies in part to the engineering. The new domestic 4 cyls may be slow on 'zero-to-whatever' ratio but once they are up they can haul and fairly responsive. I'm not into European cars personally, but VW's had kick-butt fast 4 cyls for ages. You'd see the VW small sedans and hatchbacks haul butt flying on the freeway.

Originally Posted by Cliffy

I bought a new car this year and it's a 4 cylinder and I'm surprised how "peppy" it is and I was coming from a V8. It's not as fast as a V8 of course but it drives pretty good on the freeway and most importantly I'm ready for $4 gallon prices.

**Canadian Visitor** · January-01-17, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Speaking of bitching and moaning, you seem to do one hell of a job when someone shoots down your pointless post. I feel bad Canadians are over paying for their highway usage, but again, that has little to do with me or my situation. Anyway, you must still be drunk from last night's celebration because now you've taken to interjecting false statements I've made, and using cold hard facts like "you think". Reread my "bitching and moaning" response post again. [[perhaps a few times?) We, here in MI, have for years been already paying into a roads and bridges tax. Money that should have been set aside for the repair and maintenance of, was moved into a "general fund", and used elsewhere. Now MI residents are being taxed again, because we're short on funding. Make sense? As long as that money is being kept in that fund, and can be voted on, by our legislative body, to be appropriated elsewhere, history will keep repeating itself. Anyway, Happy 2017, eh?

My post was not pointless; and your critique is off-point from beginning to end.

You were plaintive.

I pointed that out, and suggested quite rightly, and factually, that your complaint makes no sense.

Your gas was and is cheap, your taxes were and are low.

Period. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Any comparison must be global.

The fact you have no interest in anything further than your front door does not change the facts in your favour.

***

As to segregating funds. Sure, if you want to, go ahead. As a country you don't even do that for Social Security [[which strikes me as dubious, but I digress).

However, no time like the present to start.

That said, if you redirect all existing gas taxes to pay for roads, you'll blow a hole in the budget that will shut down or gut many other programs.

Since people won't stand for that; you're back to raising taxes, and the question won't be whether to do so, only which ones, and how much.

I would also point out, that the current gas tax generates 800M a year, give or take.............which according to MDOT is about 1/2 of what they need to maintain roads/bridges to an acceptable state.

In other words, even if 100% of the revenue from the existing gas tax were dedicated it would be grossly insufficient.

**Jimaz** · January-01-17, 11:51 AM

Of the five local gas stations I routinely survey, four were still at yesterday's $2.35/gal and only one increased to $2.49/gal today. I would have expected them all to increase all at once. Go figure.

**Cliffy** · January-01-17, 11:58 AM

The one by my house jumped to 2.45 this morning. I should have filled up yesterday.

**313WX** · January-01-17, 12:07 PM

I love how Canadian Visitor came all up in this thread and started dropping fact bombs everywhere.

**Johnnny5** · January-01-17, 12:45 PM

I'm fine with this tax increase, but question if it's going to be enough? With vehicles getting more fuel efficient every year, this isn't likely to be a windfall for MDOT.

The title of this thread really needs to be edited [[We're not going to have the highest fuel taxes). But we can claim the highest auto insurance rates in the country. We're still #1 at something!

**canuck** · January-01-17, 02:11 PM

I Mona have to side with Canadian Visitor just a little bit here because Canadians may be conditioned to higher taxation in regards to higher costs per capita. Just look at the road mileage in the world's major countries relative to the population in the following link and it's fairly clear that the burden for road upkeep and overhaul is huge in Canada. The US is the country with the highest mileage per capita, and comes in at less than six times the size of infrastructure; same for expressways: with ten times the population.

Russia with its 600 clicks of highways. That is something the Reds never got; rolling with the top down, tailgating, corndogs, oops, I digress...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_network_size

**Richard** · January-01-17, 02:21 PM

Where I am at the stations cannot change the price of fuel already delivered,when you receive a new wholesale delivery at the higher price then you can change.

That maybe the case there.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-01-17, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Where I am at the stations cannot change the price of fuel already delivered,when you receive a new wholesale delivery at the higher price then you can change.

That maybe the case there.

Yes, the fuel tax in Michigan is collected at the wholesale level. This is what makes this an intelligent tax. The state gets the money with as much minimal damage to the local economy as possible. No landlords raising the rent higher using a property tax increase as an excuse to make more profit.

**Jimaz** · January-01-17, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

...The title of this thread really needs to be edited [[We're not going to have the highest fuel taxes)....

Hawaii, California & New York are traditionally the highest. Today Hawaii's at $3.02/gal.

**softailrider** · January-01-17, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Where I am at the stations cannot change the price of fuel already delivered,when you receive a new wholesale delivery at the higher price then you can change.

That maybe the case there.

I wonder who is rushing around checking the paperwork on that. My guess is nobody.

**softailrider** · January-01-17, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yeah it lies in part to the engineering. The new domestic 4 cyls may be slow on 'zero-to-whatever' ratio but once they are up they can haul and fairly responsive. I'm not in European cars personally, but VW had kick-butt fast 4 cyls for ages. You'd see the VW small sedans and hatchbacks haul butt flying on the freeway.

My 4 cyl Honda Accord company car hauls ass. 105 mph is nothing, do it all the time on I-96 or I-75 when there's nobody around. There's more after that too but my craziness has limits.

I never could understand why anybody would buy that car with the 6 cyl engine.

**313WX** · January-01-17, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I wonder who is rushing around checking the paperwork on that. My guess is nobody.

Yep.

I know of a gas station nearby that moves its prices a few cents up or down multiple times throughout the day, just because.

**canuck** · January-02-17, 07:19 AM

In Quebec there was a big case about collusion between gas stations hiking prices a few years ago. A system was in place to raise and lower above the market adjusted prices.

**Wesley Mouch** · January-02-17, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

...
Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.

Your complaints seem to suggest that you think Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.

Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is by raising taxes.

If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).
...

Governments can also pay for necessary investment by acquiring debt or by ignoring the future cost of current promises or even by selling past investment.

But yes, raising taxes can pay for investment. But it also can pay for the stranded costs of gas plants in Ontario -- or it could pay to reduce the retirement age in Canada from 67 to 65 in a vote-grab.

**Zacha341** · January-02-17, 10:03 AM

Yeah, sometimes I wish I had the 4 cyl version of my model car. But I coast alot, so that helps. Dead foot driving will have you at the gas station often!

Originally Posted by softailrider

My 4 cyl Honda Accord company car hauls ass. 105 mph is nothing, do it all the time on I-96 or I-75 when there's nobody around. There's more after that too but my craziness has limits.

I never could understand why anybody would buy that car with the 6 cyl engine.