Vote YES for regional transit!

[Bobl]

Looks like it was rejected. I knew Macomb County would soundly reject it but thought the other counties might put it through. A shame, but this will be a minor problem compared to the effects of the Presidential contest.

[GMan]

Just glancing at the proposal tells me people were probably leery of a 20yr tax.
Even my local fire millage has to be renewed every two years.

[scooter]

well since it failed say good bye to the second people mover mistake,[[q-Line) rta was suppose to take it over.

[dtowncitylover]

well since it failed say good bye to the second people mover mistake,[[q-Line) rta was suppose to take it over.

The RTA wasn't going to take it over until 2027 anyways, so if it presents a plan in two years it will probably happen. They weren't not going to start if the RTA failed.

[Lowell]

UPDATE: Crain's has called RTA for the No's. Sad day for regional cooperation.

"The overall tally at this morning, based on results posted online by Oakland, Wayne, Macomb and Washtenaw counties, showed 873,308 in favor of the tax with 891,821 against with nearly all precincts reporting. That's a difference of 19,513 votes.

Macomb County voters overwhelmingly rejected the 1.2-mill, 20-year measure intended to raise $3 billion for improved transit. With all 337 Macomb precincts reporting, the issue was losing 222,806 [[60.1 percent) to 148,159 [[39.9 percent).

In Oakland County, the tax lost by a very narrow margin — 293,510 [[50.09 percent) against versus 292,401 [[49.91% percent) in favor with all 520 precincts reporting. That's a difference of 916 votes.

Washtenaw County voters, especially in Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti, were voting in favor of the tax with 91,594 [[55.99) yes and 71,994 [[44.01) no.

Wayne County showed 359.244 [[52.7 percent) in favor and 322,447[[47.3 percent) against."

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20161109/NEWS/161109846/regional-transit-tax-goes-down-to-defeat-in-tight-vote

[sirrealone]

I'm a Rochester Hills resident and my wife and I both voted Yes.

I didn't think that they needed to expand the reach of their ad campaign. Every ad I saw was more a 'get out the vote' type ad, where it appealed to groups that probably was going to vote Yes.

But I don't think they even attempted to answer the "What's in it for me?" question that I'm sure many in the outer suburbs were asking. Could the RTA have gotten people down and back to see a game? Could it offer a quick jaunt over to Ann Arbor? Were the buses going to be 'nicer' than the buses we all think of for public transportation? Could this be a good alternative to some of the rising stars like Uber?

The margin was think enough that had they gotten a few people to say "Oh, I never thought of that" I think they could have pulled this off.

[rbdetsport]

They shouold have made people understand the impact transit can have on economic growth and property values. I heard way too many times that "it isn't helping me, so i'm voting no." NO NO NOOOO.. Something this major for the region helps everyone. And the RTA did a bad job of making that case. Hopefully they learn from this and try again in 2018 or 2020.

[Junjie]

Atlanta, Seattle, LA all passed major transit taxes last night. Detroit falls farther behind. What a missed opportunity.

[dtowncitylover]

I find a silver lining in that in two years, when they will hopefully come back, they would have time to get the word out and since it's mostly state and local elections more exposure and education would happen for the initiative.

The Master Plan is fine but the YES Campaign needs to broader its appeal other than seniors and disabled people. It needs to say "economic investment", "social mobility for everyone", "better attractiveness for the region". It really didn't say that the past two months. It needs to combat the no side hard, not just be happy with thinking people are gonna feel sorry for seniors and disabled people.

[Hypestyles]

It was a nice idea while it lasted. The RTA might as well be dismantled by January. People are too reactionary and they will not vote to affirm this in another two years or 20. Let it go. SMART will also probably shrink services in the next 5 years. More reason for me to escape this region as soon as possible.
message: Buy a car and insurance, if you have morals and are civilized, regardless of cost.

[ABetterDetroit]

It's the tax vehicle, NOT the capital improvements to transportation.

Stop the stupidity and LEARN in this region for a change.

http://t4america.org/maps-tools/stat...ng/2016-votes/

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I would favor an increase in the statewide sales tax by .5% to fund both the RTA and the other transit systems in Michigan's other cities. I am predisposed to disliking property-based tax systems anyways. I am not predicting it would happen, but the legislature upping the sales tax just a bit would be great. For roads and bridges, I would hike the gas tax one penny per gallon of fuel every six months for ten years, then hold it at that level thereafter. I would divvy up that money 50% to state highways, 35% to counties, and 15% to cities and towns, based on population. Those 2 ideas would adequately fund our transportation needs without being a big burden on taxpayers.

[Junjie]

Having thought about this a little more, I'm actually feeling ok. The Detroit region - perhaps the most anti-transit major metro region in the country - just had 49.5% of voters support a tax to build a regional transit system in the same year that a Republican won the state for the first time in over two decades. With anyone else on the Dem ticket, this would have passed. On this issue at least, things are improving. People are changing how they think about the city and about transportation.

We should have started 30 years ago, of course. We should have started this year. But I'm very confident now that this can get done. Let's see the RTA regroup, improve the plan, improve their campaign, and bring it back to voters in 2018.

[ndavies]

The lack of transit is not killing the city of Detroit. The obnoxiously high tax rates are. The 65 mills for non homestead property in Detroit is outrageous. Adding another 1.5 for transit and 2 more for schools will only make it worse.

The only place this millage passed was in the city of Detroit and Washtenaw county. Even the Wayne county suburbs voted it down. Maybe the suburbs understand you can't rebuild a city with a millage rate over 65 for homeowners and 80 for businesses.

Unfortunately the school tax passed. I want my 2% back from the sales tax, if we're going to return to raising property taxes for schools. Wasn't that the deal, we were supposed to trade sales tax for property taxes on schools when prop A was passed so many years ago. Why is the property tax going up for schools when Prop A was supposed to stop that?

[swingline]

The Free Press editorial board accurately sums it up:

Every other major metro area has at least a basic, functioning transit system, even around cities that have fewer natural assets and advantages than Detroit. The traffic that snarls our highways, the billions we spend trying to take care of and expand roads, the absurd inability to catch a train or a bus to the ballgame or a concert or a restaurant — it makes us a backwater. It holds us back from growth.At the end of the day, we fear that voters in metro Detroit just don't believe they and their neighbors deserve better. After nearly 50 years of trying, they're more captive to anti-tax provincialism than they are dedicated to moving forward, together. It's not just sad; it's worthy of the ridicule and pity visitors often express when they land at Metro Airport and can't even find public transportation to any of the region's population centers.

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/e...-eco/93547790/

We are indeed "worthy of the ridicule and pity" of visitors from the world's modern and growing cities.

[Russix]

If we had built this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2wh3rXaMLM it would have passed.

Hey look, the CoD built something that makes commuting downtown viable, lets expand it. Not, hey lets drive downtown and ride people mover I and II.

[ABetterDetroit]

Reading this thread makes it seem like the pro transit team is more interested in a political vendetta to get a property tax hike through then to actually secure funding for the RTA.

As the green zone rises in popularity the awareness of the City of Detroits property tax rates only becomes more widely understood locally and the more people begin to understand why new construction only gets built with tax credits and want nothing to do with rates that are detrimental to property values.

Is there a reason to ignore what was successful elsewhere?

http://t4america.org/maps-tools/stat...ng/2016-votes/

[Mark Smiles]

1. Why is it the responsibility of people who own homes, to pay taxes for mass transit?

2. Why is it fair for those who are not liable for the tax increase to vote for others to pay it?

3. Why not have those who voted yes for this tax increase get a bill for $2000 [[$100 x 20 years), and run their program with that?

4. Why did this plan not provide any protection for taxpayers in case of a strike? Is it that this is really about adding to the burden of taxpayers, more government workers on their back, than providing a service? Is it fair to continue to collect taxes, for a service not provided? Doesn’t this really tell people that this is really not about providing a service, when there is no guarantee that the service will be provided?

[Bobl]

It's all dead as a doornail and there will be no more plans with a realistic chance until the region wakes up. Meanwhile, in January, no funding for anything except defense pork will be allowed in Washington. Even Medicare and Social Security will be attacked. There will be so many bills sent to President Trump's desk that his head will spin. I am old and retired. I'll manage to get by, provided there is some good live music and a few friends left. Advice to young forum members: Find a more pleasant and modern place to move to, if you can afford it. This region is stuck in the 1970s, and drifting toward the 1950s...without the jobs.

[ParisianLesion]

well since it failed say good bye to the second people mover mistake,[[q-Line) rta was suppose to take it over.

How many times does this misnomer need to be debunked?

[Calltoaction]

What a nightmare, this region dropped the ball AGAIN.

Hope the conservative boomers love everything the way it is, they made this bed now lay in it. Young people are leaving.

[swingline]

It’s pathetic how the suburban and exurban “nothing in it for me” voter selfishness blinds those residents to consequences that actually do affect them. How many SE Michigan senior citizens and baby boomers have lamented about how the region’s lackluster economy resulted in their college educated children moving to New York, Chicago, San Francisco and other booming cities to embark on their careers. Nothing here for them those kids say. And of course, thousands and thousands of those kids are lured away merely by the availability alone of urban and non-automobile centric lifestyles in those places. Job considerations are often secondary.

Well, it’s no secret to the rest of the world that economically strong cities benefit from the cycle of global capital and jobs gravitating to talent and talent gravitating to cities with attractive lifestyle options. Mass transit improves livability and is an essential part of every economically healthy city in the world. Regions without it will never enjoy recession proof economies and will always have to satisfy themselves with the leftover economic crumbs dropped by the regions that understand what actually works to attract talent and capital. All of these cities know that effective transit is mandatory. There’s nowhere near enough crumbs being dropped in this region to keep our kids here. Yet somehow the voters around here think we can do it differently than every other city. How amazingly stupid can we be? We have apparently figured something out that rest of the world doesn’t understand. I don’t think so.

The whiny suburban baby boomers, and the “no mass transit” Gen Xers who in a few years will also watch their kids decamp elsewhere, only need to look in the mirror to see the reason why they’re spending so much money on plane tickets to visit the kids and why they don’t really know their grandchildren. Then again, if they save all that money they’re not paying to the RTA, every couple of years they can buy another plane ticket. Win win right?

[iheartthed]

Is there a reason that they always tie these things to millage proposals? Maybe they should request the state to levy a sales tax on the four counties.

[Jason]

How does this affect the RTA?

Does the RTA need to operate service in order to count as a transit agency for federal money?

The RTA is already having the flex routes. Would it be possible for the RTA to essentially use SMART and DDOT money for bigger transit projects, avoiding the need to get money from ballot proposals? If they could get DDOT and SMART to each take over a complete Gratiot and Woodward line, could they also coordinate the various transit agencies to share costs for other projects?

To me the main benefit of the RTA is organizational, and the longterm potential of improved transit. How does this affect that?

For example could the RTA right now coordinate with DDOT, SMART, and AAATA to make a AA-Airport-Detroit bus line? If DDOT and SMART agreed to pay their proportional share of the costs, could the light rail be extended to Royal Oak?

[rbdetsport]

How does this affect the RTA?

Does the RTA need to operate service in order to count as a transit agency for federal money?

The RTA is already having the flex routes. Would it be possible for the RTA to essentially use SMART and DDOT money for bigger transit projects, avoiding the need to get money from ballot proposals? If they could get DDOT and SMART to each take over a complete Gratiot and Woodward line, could they also coordinate the various transit agencies to share costs for other projects?

To me the main benefit of the RTA is organizational, and the longterm potential of improved transit. How does this affect that?

For example could the RTA right now coordinate with DDOT, SMART, and AAATA to make a AA-Airport-Detroit bus line? If DDOT and SMART agreed to pay their proportional share of the costs, could the light rail be extended to Royal Oak?

You are talking about a major Title VI issue. These agencies do not necessarily have the biggest budgets in the world and cutting service on other routes to fund these new rapid corridors would be considered illegal under Title VI.