Illitch to build another Parking Garage, this time at Park/Henry

[emu steve]

FYI, Gilbert's net worth in 2005 was $900 billion, Ilitch's was $815 billion. Both dropped off the Forbes 400 list for a period, with Ilitch returning in 2006, Gilbert in 2011. Currently, Ilitch is #2 in Michigan at $5.8 billion, Gilbert is #4 at $4.6 billion.

I'm not applying any relevancy to this, just adding information.

Thanks. You posted 'billions' instead of 'millions' but I understand.

If i follow the numbers of both Ilitch and Gilbert correctly, NEITHER had the resources 10 or 15 years ago to do the type of things they are doing today.

815 or 900M is nothing to sneeze it, but to do what Gilbert and Ilitches are doing today they need to be multi-billionaires.

Maybe we have stumbled on the truth: The reason Gilbert has done what he has done is that he is worth 3.7B more today than 11 years ago.

Ditto for Ilitch. He is now worth 5B more than 10 years ago.

Taking Ilitch's 815M net worth in 2005. Wasn't most of that tied up in non liquid assets like the Red Wings and Tigers? I always thought that years ago that Ilitch had a lot of assets [[Red Wings, Tigers, etc.) but wasn't liquid or cash rich. Wasn't it posted here sometime that he had to mortgage the Tigers [[???) to build Comerica????

What we are seeing is two men who have done extremely well in the last 10 years and they are spending aggressively on these projects.

[Atticus]

Thanks. You posted 'billions' instead of 'millions' but I understand.

If i follow the numbers of both Ilitch and Gilbert correctly, NEITHER had the resources 10 or 15 years ago to do the type of things they are doing today.

815 or 900M is nothing to sneeze it, but to do what Gilbert and Ilitches are doing today they need to be multi-billionaires.

Maybe we have stumbled on the truth: The reason Gilbert has done what he has done is that he is worth 3.7B more today than 11 years ago.

Ditto for Ilitch. He is now worth 5B more than 10 years ago.

Taking Ilitch's 815M net worth in 2005. Wasn't most of that tied up in non liquid assets like the Red Wings and Tigers? I always thought that years ago that Ilitch had a lot of assets [[Red Wings, Tigers, etc.) but wasn't liquid or cash rich. Wasn't it posted here sometime that he had to mortgage the Tigers [[???) to build Comerica????

What we are seeing is two men who have done extremely well in the last 10 years and they are spending aggressively on these projects.

The other aspect that needs to be taken into consideration is that when someone mentions "Illitch", who/what are they specifically referring to?

I mention this because historically Illitch always meant Mike and Marion Illitch, and their associated holdings. However in the last few years, everything the Illitch organization has done has been presented by Chris Illitch. I get that for health reasons Mike Illitch may not be able to be there physically for the PR stuff, but for those same health reasons is he able to be making the decisions as well?

This leads to two questions: 1) who is the one making the decisions in the Illitch organization, and 2) if the decision maker is now someone different, will they make different choices than their predecessors would have?

[ekleezy]

Thanks. You posted 'billions' instead of 'millions' but I understand.

If i follow the numbers of both Ilitch and Gilbert correctly, NEITHER had the resources 10 or 15 years ago to do the type of things they are doing today.

815 or 900M is nothing to sneeze it, but to do what Gilbert and Ilitches are doing today they need to be multi-billionaires.

Maybe we have stumbled on the truth: The reason Gilbert has done what he has done is that he is worth 3.7B more today than 11 years ago.

Ditto for Ilitch. He is now worth 5B more than 10 years ago.

Taking Ilitch's 815M net worth in 2005. Wasn't most of that tied up in non liquid assets like the Red Wings and Tigers? I always thought that years ago that Ilitch had a lot of assets [[Red Wings, Tigers, etc.) but wasn't liquid or cash rich. Wasn't it posted here sometime that he had to mortgage the Tigers [[???) to build Comerica????

What we are seeing is two men who have done extremely well in the last 10 years and they are spending aggressively on these projects.

If you're right that Illitch historically hasn't done much because he just didn't have the cash for it, then why did he have to buy so many properties and let them rot or tear them down for parking lots? If he couldn't afford to renovate them or keep them in decent shape then he should've let them stay on the market or at least be willing to sell them to someone who will fix them now.

[ABetterDetroit]

EMU Steve - I have worked downtown for 13 years and followed its ups and downs closely. To say that Gilbert is running downhill is a misnomer. He created the f--ing hill. Without Gilbert's investment, I'd still be walking by a baseball stadium that is dead any time the Tigers are not playing. Instead, I walk through a bustling downtown every day that is full of Quicken/Rock employees and the employees of companies that those companies lured downtown. Your assertion that Ilitch's work was more valuable is totally laughable. In fact, I would assert that everything he has done could be lived without. The Fox, Comerica, the hockey Arena, etc. If he didn't come to downtown, the public sector would have a lot more money, and large sections of downtown wouldn't have been bulldozed. Gilbert would still have come because he has vision and he would have just had more buildings that he could restore and fill. Mr. I is not a bad guy, I don't think, but your insane support for his strategy over Gilbert's makes me want to say nasty things about him. You are really talking out of turn and I wish you would please stop.

Perfectly stated. I feel exactly the same way and I support having a new arena downtown. Steve's blind Kim Jong-Il like non stop worship of Ilitch on this forum with the rightly deserved critique that follows makes it seem like there is something deliberately diabolically evil about the man. I second the could you please lay off some Steve? You constantly ask for more time. Why not use some?

[emu steve]

If you're right that Illitch historically hasn't done much because he just didn't have the cash for it, then why did he have to buy so many properties and let them rot or tear them down for parking lots? If he couldn't afford to renovate them or keep them in decent shape then he should've let them stay on the market or at least be willing to sell them to someone who will fix them now.

FAIR QUESTION!!! I agree.

I don't know the history, but what little I know about the Ilitches, if they promised 'heaven and earth' they were fools or worse. I doubt they had the dough [[bad pun) nor was there a market for what they might have promised.

What I see with both Gilbert and Ilitch[[es) is that they now both have very, very deep pockets and can do what they want to do [[and are doing).

All of that said, I would think we should all be very happy that these two men [[or families) have 10B of net worth and a real desire to do what they can for Detroit.

[rbdetsport]

This argument is stupid. Facts are facts. Gilbert wins.

[emu steve]

This argument is stupid. Facts are facts. Gilbert wins.

This argument is stupid.

Gilbert wins.

Ilitch wins.

Detroit wins.

End of stupid argument.

[southen]

For the life of me I don't understand why you keep defending the guy and admitting that you don't know the whole history about him and what he has done in Detroit. Don't you think the smart thing would be to familiarize yourself with his past before blindly and annoyingly defending him at every turn?

Oh and Ilitch could have been Gilbert before Gilbert. Ilitch bought property left and right for dirt cheap in a down market and could have revitalized them and brought people downtown. He didn't. He let them rot and tore them down. Meanwhile Gilbert comes down and completely changes the market and you act like he was running uphill. He put the work into fixing buildings and luring companies downtown, something pizza boy has never done.

Your blind love/support is beyond obnoxious. Everyone wants to see the Ilitch family build and do good by the city, but lets wait to applaud them until they do something that isn't taxpayer funded. Oh and btw before you give him credit for Comerica that was the taxpayers too.

[canuck]

For the life of me I don't understand why you keep defending the guy and admitting that you don't know the whole history about him and what he has done in Detroit. Don't you think the smart thing would be to familiarize yourself with his past before blindly and annoyingly defending him at every turn?

Some people flip property for a living, some; burgers. I'm guessing our friend Steve throws pizza pies for you know who.

[Gistok]

In 2008, the Ilitch's cash cow.... the semi-public DDA paid $2.5 million for the demolition of several Ilitch owned parcels.... how nice of them to clear out all that "decay".....
http://fadeddetroit.blogspot.com/200...bring-new.html

The one parcel in this group that is today a gravel parking lot along Grand River... used to be a very nice 3 story building, that had a lot of potential.... 2030 Grand River.... within a block of the Moose Lodge and GAR Buildings.... public money made sure that this would never be rehabbed, and became an Ilitch owned parking lot... with the demise of the corner building adding about 30 parking spots....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/20...6dc383!6m1!1e1

This is what came down....

[archfan]

Some people flip property for a living, some; burgers. I'm guessing our friend Steve throws pizza pies for you know who.

Nah, nephew making sure he's in the will.

[canuck]

Nah, nephew making sure he's in the will.

Yes, that's more like it.

Gistok, that building looked in pretty good shape and seemed to have had new windows put in. Pretty sick this habit of fast tracking further demise of the built environment with public money.

[emu steve]

Some people flip property for a living, some; burgers. I'm guessing our friend Steve throws pizza pies for you know who.

That's funny, but I'm actually retired.

Worked for the federal government where I made good dough. [[sorry, I couldn't resist).

[Honky Tonk]

That's funny, but I'm actually retired.

Worked for the federal government where I made good dough. [[sorry, I couldn't resist).

Nice.......

[canuck]

I think "ill itches" greatest crime is his lack of imagination. Greed doesn't explain or excuse the dumbness of swapping good looking architecture for parking.

[jt1]

That's funny, but I'm actually retired.

Worked for the federal government where I made good dough. [[sorry, I couldn't resist).

So you have the time to research every current proposal, Ilitch and Gilbert's net worth but aren't interested in reading or learning about his history involving other large proposals that failed and decimation of a number of properties in the city.

Yep, that's believable that you don't have an agenda and are just an interested, but uneducated, bystander.

Such bullshit.

[jt1]

I think "ill itches" greatest crime is his lack of imagination. Greed doesn't explain or excuse the dumbness of swapping good looking architecture for parking.

Well Steve doesn't believe any of that since Ilitch is going to go big beyond the stadium and parking this time.

[emu steve]

So you have the time to research every current proposal, Ilitch and Gilbert's net worth but aren't interested in reading or learning about his history involving other large proposals that failed and decimation of a number of properties in the city.

Yep, that's believable that you don't have an agenda and are just an interested, but uneducated, bystander.

Such bullshit.

Maybe I have a DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE:

"Focus on the FutureFirst, whatever challenges you face, focus on the future rather than on the past. Instead of worrying about who did what and who is to blame, focus on where you want to be and what you want to do. Get a clear mental image of your ideal successful future, and then take whatever action you can to begin moving in that direction. Get your mind, your thoughts, and your mental images on the future."

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar.../attitude.aspx

So the past is the past, and we can't go back in time. Regardless of the building demolished and by whom [[many, many building in Detroit have been demolished which ideally could have been saved).

We are now talking of the future of the area near Comerica, the new arena, Brush Park, the QLine, etc. [[Adams to MLKjr/Mack).

The main purpose of discussing the past not to wallow in grief and despair, but to learn what mistakes not to make in the future.

[southen]

So you're Charlie Brown always thinking you'll kick that football ignoring the fact that it's always pulled away?

[gumby]

The main purpose of discussing the past not to wallow in grief and despair, but to learn what mistakes not to make in the future.

You mean like the mistake of taking Mike Ilitch at his word when he says he is going to build something other than a stadium. Last I checked he promised a building would be built on the Madison Lenox lot by now, the Detroit Life Building was supposed to begin renovations like 10 years ago... Do I need to go on about us learning to not make the mistake of trusting Ilitch in the future?

[Wesley Mouch]

You mean like the mistake of taking Mike Ilitch at his word when he says he is going to build something other than a stadium. Last I checked he promised a building would be built on the Madison Lenox lot by now, the Detroit Life Building was supposed to begin renovations like 10 years ago... Do I need to go on about us learning to not make the mistake of trusting Ilitch in the future?

There's no doubt that Ilitch has over-promised, and under-delivered. I never did eat at the Hard Rock between the Fox and Palms/State that was promised in a press conference with HR folks.

So we've been burned. So what?

As said here recently, we need to look towards the future. I doubt that Mike's very involved now. Chris Ilitch seems to be doing a fine job replacing his dad. And I trust that Marion Ilitch continues to be the moderating influence.

Rather than focus on what Mike's company said, try limiting your negativity to what Chris's company has said.

[Gistok]

Rather than focus on what Mike's company said, try limiting your negativity to what Chris's company has said.

Sounds fair.... now here's a hint.... Chris Ilitch REFUSED to take phone calls or return Emails from the former President of the National Trust For Historic Preservation.... Richard Moe.

Is that focused enough?

[jt1]

As said here recently, we need to look towards the future. I doubt that Mike's very involved now. Chris Ilitch seems to be doing a fine job replacing his dad. And I trust that Marion Ilitch continues to be the moderating influence.

Rather than focus on what Mike's company said, try limiting your negativity to what Chris's company has said.

How about we focus on what he's done: Stadium? Check. Parking decks? Check. New development and addressing their blighted properties? Not so much.

[emu steve]

May I suggest, folks, as indicated above, that control, vision, etc. is turning over to Chris from his father.

Maybe a better line of inquiry is what is Chris' vision? What is his interest in development? Red Wings? Tigers? and so on.

Maybe Chris is much, much into development than his father? Perhaps his father is [[was) mostly into owning sports teams and where they play?

Again, I still believe that anyone who is clairvoyant should wonder how big this development will be: 1B? 1.2B? 2B? or even more in 10 or 15 years?

Will any economic conditions affect it [[e.g., a significant recession)? Will downtown/CBD continue to prosper and grow in the next 5 or 10 years?

[Mackinaw]

Has Olympia/Ilitch Holdings developed or maintained a SINGLE residence in the City of Detroit?

The answer will tell you what you need to know about how they view the city.

At present they are proposing an unimpressive amount of new residences near their stadiums. It's not glib to state that they are at least ten years late to this game.