Illitch to build another Parking Garage, this time at Park/Henry

[bust]

It goes beyond the posters on this site and has been documented by national media sources as a misuse of funds.

Yep. Here's some of what Bloomberg Business Week had to say in their article titled "Detroit Billionaires Get Arena Help as Bankrupt City Suffers":

"Meaningless Pursuit

Snyder, who has dubbed Michigan the Comeback State because of auto industry’s post-recession revival, may find that his projections collide with reality.

A 2002 study looking at whether construction jobs rose in St. Louis as a result of downtown arenas for the St. Louis Blues hockey team and Rams football team found they didn’t significantly affect construction employment.

Another study by economics professors Dennis Coates of the University of Maryland in Baltimore and Professor Brad Humphreys of the University of Alberta found that income per capita in metropolitan areas didn’t fall during player strikes, supporting an “emerging consensus” that professional sports don’t have an impact on local economies.

“There’s always a debate about does this really pan out?” Orr, the emergency manager, said in a July 25 interview. “The reality is we are so needy of some economic development, I can’t see how we don’t pursue it because if we don’t, what’s left?”

Tapping Schools

Almost 60 percent of the funds to pay for the arena would come from taxpayers. Bonds would be backed by a combination of about $15 million in annual payments from Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority and $11.5 million from Olympia. Wayne County may also provide support, according to a July 24 memo.

In December, Michigan’s legislature revived the ability of the development authority to take a portion of school-tax revenue generated by property on 615 downtown acres. The money, which had gone toward economic-development bonds, would be used for debt service on a project meeting the characteristics of a new Red Wings arena.

The levy generates about $13 million, said Bob Rossbach, a spokesman for the authority.

The money otherwise would have reverted to public schools and the state’s school-aid fund, according to a legislative analysis. The state will reimburse the district to make up shortfalls, just as did before 2011, said Rossbach.

“It’s not taking money from Detroit Public Schools and putting it into economic development,” Rossbach said.

Bipartisan Scorn

However, the state still must take money from programs to make up for cash benefiting the Iliches, said Shikha Dalmia, a senior analyst for the Los Angeles-based Reason Foundation, which describes itself as a public-policy think tank promoting free-market economics.

“The left should be crying bloody murder,” Dalmia said. “Why are you diverting money that’s meant for Detroit school children to this guy’s pocket? And the right should be crying about crony capitalism. They could easily have passed another state law which allowed this money to go to fighting crime, or a bazillion other things.”"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...t-city-suffers

I'm sickened by all the ridiculous fantasies we hear from the Ilitch family about the benefits their developments will bring. It's insulting they think we'd believe them. And it's sad if anyone does. If they didn't lay the b.s. on so thick they'd get less of my ire. But the majority would remain due to all the damage they've done destroying the CBD and letting it rot.

In any case I wish this project the best. There's no turning it back.

Just let's learn from our mistakes, please. The mistake was to take the Ilitch family at their word that the spin-off benefits would materialize, and to make it so easy for them to surpass the threshold to collect even more taxpayer money before it happened. They build what's in their financial interest and find a way to avoid absolutely everything else. Yeah, just like Trump. I'll be very happy if they prove me wrong. Here's yet another chance.

[casscorridor]

The "District Detroit" is an utter farce and anyone who thinks it will live up to its stated aspirations is delusional.

It has and will continue to be a sports and events arena with parking, paid for by tax dollars.

This is not proper economic development, and study after study has shown zero to even negative net impact for cities who subsidize sports stadiums.

Michigan and Detroit would be much better off investing in infrastructure, arts, education, etc. The list of things that would be more worthy of investment could go on and on.

It is excused because cities are so desperate for redevelopment, but will be an overall negative in the end as compared with an alternative, more reasoned economic development investment scheme.

[emu steve]

Here comes that long-promised "economic development"! Parking podiums for fat suburbanites who can't walk two blocks. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get a TGI Fridays...

Ugh!

Parking garages for the arena. Hdqtrs for LC. Housing across the street. Hotel and office on Henry. Yes, even the Eddystone, too. and a School of Business building.

In a city with minimal new construction that sounds good to me.

Detroit isn't NYC and can't look down on a billion bucks of development...

[subsidized]

Here's a article about the Ilitch response to a possible Pistons move downtown. The video in the link its interesting in that Christopher Ilitch describes how Olympia has announced $1.2 billion in projects and expects the total to be upwards of $2 billion. He even responds to critics saying the public's $200 million investment was a bargain considering it's evolved into a $2 billion project. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article..._medium=social

[hybridy]

Top points I heard in crains video:

•State contributes $250m - no future revenue from arena to city however
•Illitch saying its gone from $650m to $2b development
•Says $1B in future projects to be announced
•750 housing units to be part of district Detroit

I'd be curious if our local papers could tease out what projects go in which bucket...

Also what becomes of Joe Louis should be fantastic, due to site...very curious to see that

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Ugh!

Parking garages for the arena. Hdqtrs for LC. Housing across the street. Hotel and office on Henry. Yes, even the Eddystone, too. and a School of Business building.

In a city with minimal new construction that sounds good to me.

Detroit isn't NYC and can't look down on a billion bucks of development...

And what exactly is the status of that housing across the street, the hotel you refer to, and the Eddystone?

[CrashDummy]

And what exactly is the status of that housing across the street, the hotel you refer to, and the Eddystone?

Eddystone scheduled to be completed 2018, hotel 2019. Not sure about the housing across the street. 2019 would be my bet.

[emu steve]

yes, and if one views things organically [[hope that is the proper usage of the term), what this District Detroit project is but one of THREE major things happening simultaneously, namely, the QLine, Brush Park and all of the Ilitch developments near LCA and Comerica.

The idea being is that all three build upon each other and create a dynamic growth environment much like what Gilbert did within the CBD and could cause the whole area toward MLKjr to develop including Temple, West of Cass, etc.

As we have discussed in other threads, there are a lot of opportunities to grow beyond the LCA. Just look at Temple on the map above.

One which has been discussed is the Alhambra Apts. building. How can it be shuttered in 2020 with all of the re-development around it. What about the Hotel Americana? Does it become a real re-development possibility say in 2020? Aren't these buildings more desirable than some other buildings re-developed say around Cass further north?

And, of course, if the Pistons move to LCA that would be another big win for the area.
Can't put a price on it like a 50M, 100M or 150M building but it would be great for Detroit.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Eddystone scheduled to be completed 2018, hotel 2019. Not sure about the housing across the street. 2019 would be my bet.

In other words, they are promises only.

[emu steve]

In other words, they are promises only.

Maybe, but a builder, developer, etc. would probably look at the project [[big project) in totality and decide what goes first, second, third... lastly.

From what I observed [[empirical observations or data in geek speak) from the Nationals Park project and development around it, is that NOTHING near the stadium was completed [[other than two parking garages) at the time the stadium was completed.

No one wants to live in a pricey apartment, condo, etc. or stay in a pricey hotel while a major structure is going up 200 yards away.

Based on that, I'd think that any residential building [[e.g., hotel or residences) would be timed to be started no earlier than say Fall 2017 once the area where the hotel, office, etc. will be is free of construction vehicles from the LCA.

[CrashDummy]

In other words, they are promises only.

That is not entirely accurate. Contrary to popular belief, these plans do not reside solely in some hidden bunker among a chosen few. Olympia employs hundreds of ordinary people who actually walk [[and talk) among us. An awful lot of money is going to these employees and contracted companies who are doing all of the preliminary work that happens before any announcement of these projects is made. But if they want to waste all of that money just to jerk us around, I guess that's their business.

[1953]

Parking garages are part of the arena development and shouldn't be counted as spin off.

I'll grant him the LC headquarters and the WSU Business School.

I won't grant him housing or offices or hotels until I see one going up.

1953

[Bham1982]

Parking garages are part of the arena development and shouldn't be counted as spin off.

I'll grant him the LC headquarters and the WSU Business School.

But these aren't spinoff developments. Whether or not LC needs more HQ space has nothing to do with a sports arena. Whether or not the Wayne MBA program needs more classroom space has nothing to do with this either.

If there were no new arena, there would still be a LC and a Wayne MBA, and they would both still have the same space needs.

[emu steve]

But these aren't spinoff developments. Whether or not LC needs more HQ space has nothing to do with a sports arena. Whether or not the Wayne MBA program needs more classroom space has nothing to do with this either.

If there were no new arena, there would still be a LC and a Wayne MBA, and they would both still have the same space needs.

Yeah, the LC headquarters could be in Novi.

The WSU school of business building would NEVER get built. WSU tried and failed almost almost 8 - 10 years ago to raise money to build it on Woodward by W. Ferry [[where a parking lot sits today).

[[I'm familiar with that effort. I saw the WSU President at a WSU FB game and asked about the biz school. "trying to raise the money" was the answer.)

P.S. I do have a WSU degree and have over the years attended some WSU games. My favorite was Joique Bell.

[1953]

I was being generous. I think he's skirting the intent of the agreement and leveraging public tax subsidies for an inappropriate personal benefit, but, at the same time, I agree with those who say that whatever the rules are, companies will use them to their maximum advantage.

[emu steve]

I was being generous. I think he's skirting the intent of the agreement and leveraging public tax subsidies for an inappropriate personal benefit, but, at the same time, I agree with those who say that whatever the rules are, companies will use them to their maximum advantage.

I don't think you were being generous at all.

What the hell is 'inappropriate personal benefit'?

Parking garages are for the good of the public [[if people use them). QLine is for the good of the public [[if people ride it). LCA is for the good of the public [[if people attend events there). WSU School of Business is flat out philanthropy.

Now, if the Ilitches build a 5M dollar mansion that would be 'personal benefit.'

Next I know, someone will claim that the street outside my house is for 'inappropriate personal benefit'.

[southen]

Dear lord, how is LCA for the good of the public? The city gets no revenue from anything held there despite playing a substantial role in its creation.

It is viewed as inappropriate by some because the arena would need parking regardless. How does that get lumped into ancillary development when it is essential to the success of the arena? He needed a new HQ regardless, but roped it into the spinoff, just as WSU needed space for a business school. It is a personal benefit because he has found a way to take investments that he would have to make anyway and applied them to the promised spinoff development.

[Bham1982]

Yeah, the LC headquarters could be in Novi.

The WSU school of business building would NEVER get built.

You're telling me that A. the LC HQ would be in Novi and B. The WSU MBA building would not exist, if not for the construction of a new hockey arena?? LOL!

How do I even respond to such nonsense? MBA students decide to further their careers depending on where the Red Wings play? Global pizza sales are dependent on a new Wings arena?

And what does Novi have to do with anything? The Illitches are all commuting 2 hours to Novi, a random city with no affiliation or history with LC?

[SammyS]

Not speaking for 1953 but if i wanted to speculate on land and not be accused of land banking, I'd build a parking garage 😉

I don't think you were being generous at all.

What the hell is 'inappropriate personal benefit'?

Parking garages are for the good of the public [[if people use them). QLine is for the good of the public [[if people ride it). LCA is for the good of the public [[if people attend events there). WSU School of Business is flat out philanthropy.

Now, if the Ilitches build a 5M dollar mansion that would be 'personal benefit.'

Next I know, someone will claim that the street outside my house is for 'inappropriate personal benefit'.

[emu steve]

You're telling me that A. the LC HQ would be in Novi and B. The WSU MBA building would not exist, if not for the construction of a new hockey arena?? LOL!

How do I even respond to such nonsense? MBA students decide to further their careers depending on where the Red Wings play? Global pizza sales are dependent on a new Wings arena?

And what does Novi have to do with anything? The Illitches are all commuting 2 hours to Novi, a random city with no affiliation or history with LC?

I flat out stated, with evidence [[I spoke with the then WSU president) that WSU did not have the funds to build the new School of Business building that they wanted. I probably have drawings of it and if I can find them, I'll post.

Long and short: NO Ilitch, no new WSU School of Business building.

That is the truth.

P.S. IF WSU had been able to raise the funds, the school would have been on Woodward by W. Ferry or W. Palmer - one of those parking lots.

Since, Ilitch is putting up the money he got to choose the location...

[emu steve]

Dear lord, how is LCA for the good of the public? The city gets no revenue from anything held there despite playing a substantial role in its creation...

Arena, stadia, etc. are considered necessary as means to keep professional sports teams.

I believe the history of JLA was that the city made a concerted effort to keep the Wings from leaving for the 'burbs.

Keeping the Wings in Detroit was considered good for the city of Detroit back then and also today.

Do all agree? No. To some a buck of public money spent on a stadium/arena, roads around such, etc. is a buck pissed down the toilet.

Unfortunately most folks don't feel that way...

[Bham1982]

I flat out stated, with evidence [[I spoke with the then WSU president) that WSU did not have the funds to build the new School of Business building that they wanted. I probably have drawings of it and if I can find them, I'll post.

That has zero to do with the hockey arena.

Long and short: NO Ilitch, no new WSU School of Business building.

We aren't talking about Illitch; we're talking about a hockey arena. If Illitch were never born, yes, there would still be a Wayne MBA, and yes, a business school would be built, just not with Illitch's naming rights.

Since, Ilitch is putting up the money he got to choose the location...

Now you're veering to "where should Wayne put its MBA program"?. You're all over the map. Again, has nothing to do with a hockey arena.

[Bham1982]

Arena, stadia, etc. are considered necessary as means to keep professional sports teams.

There's absolutely zero evidence to indicate that the Red Wings would leave one of the most lucrative hockey markets on earth for another due to public opposition to generous public subsidies for a new arena.

[emu steve]

Bham1982,

We are just talking past each other.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...ment/91495684/

If HALF of this comes to pass, I think all of your comments on the arena and assorted developments will look pretty foolish.

While the Ilitches [[and their business associates) look to spend 2B as did Dan Gilbert [[according to the article) why are we having these inane debates???

Folks should be celebrating what years ago seemed like the impossible...

[southen]

Look to spend. Just like over the last three decades they looked to develop properties and lied time and time again. What don't you understand about that? Flashy renderings and corny branding doesn't make up for three decades of being a bad neighbor.