Trump's Upcoming Ruins Porn Tour of Detroit

[Honky Tonk]

Thanx for speaking for everyone.

[Richard]

You're saying it's in the public's interest to elect an ignnorant racist clown who has dangerous fascist tendencies and whose entire base of support is uneducated bigots? Uh, no.

The NY Time criticizes Trump for the exact same reason that conservative publications like the WSJ, FT and even National Review criticize Trump: he's an asshat who isn't remotely qualified for any paid position, much less the most important position on the planet. It has zero to do with politics; he's an existential threat to humanity, probably the greatest threat since WW2.

So it it would be safe to assume that you will be moving to Canada if he wins?

Everybody says he is a racist but yet have not provided any proof that he is actually racist,but it is okay for her to be chummy with grand dukes.

Granted hanging out with the KKK does not automatically make one a racist,just as making an even playing field when it comes to immigration polices does not make one racist.

The last eight years have been about giving compassion to war torn refugees but yet in Mexico where they kill the mayors on a daily basis it is business as usual.

I get that Democrat party rules the roost in Michigan and always has,I am independent,so sway me to lean democrat by proving to me that the immigration system has been changed to a level playing field in the last eight years.The party has had 8 years to fix it and is has made it worse.

Border crossing numbers are down,of course they are when you defund and are told to stand down of course the numbers are going to reflect that,that is not immigration control that is creative accounting.

Have the policies of the last eight years made this country a safer place to raise our children?

A couple of days ago balloons pop in the shopping mall and they are mistaken for gunshots,people are hospitalized in the exit stamped.

There is a real fear out there of going to public places because of everything that is going on,I take my grandkids to the movie theater and now I have to survey the crowd for potential threats,I have clubs and have had to triple security so my coustmers can feel reasonably safe while they are enjoying an evening out,not to even mention the tripling of the liability insurance.

Amercians are comfortable with that? You really want to live like in Israel with a military soldier with a MP4 on every street corner?

Quit playing politics and party loyalty and look at the facts,it is not a game anymore,it is real and we have only recieved a taste of what is coming in the future.

In the case of inaction their will always be a reaction.


Compassion and failed immigration policies has brought this to this country,read it and watch the video and think real hard about if this was your wife,daughter,or children,or partner,while you are at work or even out shopping.

This is real and not a joke.

http://www.infowars.com/minneapolis-...ap-rape-women/

[Zacha341]

There's also the factor of those over-staying their visas. No wall would impact that! And this loop-hole needs to be addressed. Yet it is clear that both the dems and repubs benefit from having undocumented workers!

[Zacha341]

Youtube will supply the necessary techniques to circumvent any wall. Liveleak will show the most dramatic footage of those doing so!

This wall better go down at least 100 feet. Mexicans are excellent tunnel builders. Let's just hope they don't google "How to Build a Better Catapult."

[Zacha341]

Conversely, and thankfully, eh, we have Mrs. Clinton morphing further: now claiming she did not KNOW [[says she did not 'know' that the 'C' on government documents meant they were classified!), or did not SAY, or did not DO, when challenged about her former official capacities!

Gotta love the CHOICE of it all... Both candidates are fairly unthinkable! I mean really?

How in the world did we get here as a nation, and who behind the scenes stands to benefit while we go thru our election machinations?

You're saying it's in the public's interest to elect an ignnorant racist clown who has dangerous fascist tendencies and whose entire base of support is uneducated bigots? Uh, no.

[southen]

Well that is a bunch of paranoia without any substance.

[Zacha341]

^^^What do you need? Proof? About which part? ------

[southen]

Proof for any of this stuff would be great haha but what I said was mostly directed at Richard.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I here you, however, the mug shots presented seem pretty clear. Yet, innocent people have ended up in mug shot lines-ups.

Is it my naive thought and hope that Somali citizens already here, living successful productive lives will embrace to advance the incoming Somali's to attend to the same achievements? I'd not want to think they'd want to be judged by those committing criminal acts -- which they should know will be readily ascribe to the whole group at large!

If they are illegal committing crimes the individuals need to be deported immediately. This is not up for debate in other countries.

[oladub]

There's also the factor of those over-staying their visas. No wall would impact that! And this loop-hole needs to be addressed. Yet it is clear that both the dems and repubs benefit from having undocumented workers!

Good point. About 1/3 of all illegal aliens legally entered the US but have overstayed their visas. I prefer the term "illegal aliens" because it is a legal and more succinct term. American residents are either citizens or aliens. Aliens, in turn, are either legal or not. Some of the 9/11 crew members had overstayed their visas which made them"illegal aliens" but not necessarily "undocumented workers". The biggest problem with walls is that traitors can open their gates. That's what happened with the China Wall but walls' failures can be as simple, as you pointed out, as not keeping track of or punishing expired visa holders

[Richard]

Proof for any of this stuff would be great haha but what I said was mostly directed at Richard.

Proof ? police report,resident video,victim recorded statement that's not proof?

Maybe you could go up there and do a photo op with thier next victim,then you would have your proof.Just think you would be a YouTube sensation overnight and all it would cost would be the life of a fellow American,but hey as long as it does not happen to me or mine who cares,it is thier sacfrice in the name of compassion,is that how it works?

Marial boat lift was proof of unbridled and unchecked immigration,the proof there is everlasting because it is achieved in the obituaries of the bystanders that got caught in the crossfire.

[southen]

Proof ? police report,resident video,victim recorded statement that's not proof?

Maybe you could go up there and do a photo op with thier next victim,then you would have your proof.Just think you would be a YouTube sensation overnight and all it would cost would be the life of a fellow American,but hey as long as it does not happen to me or mine who cares,it is thier sacfrice in the name of compassion,is that how it works?

Marial boat lift was proof of unbridled and unchecked immigration,the proof there is everlasting because it is achieved in the obituaries of the bystanders that got caught in the crossfire.

You provided one example. Since when does one example of something garner the construction of a 20 billion dollar expense? Even your response now is based on emotion and little else. Show me the statistics that prove immigrants are coming in here at great numbers, stealing our jobs and murdering people at a higher rate than Americans already do. Do that and I'll gladly listen and take this as the problem you claim it to be.

[Wesley Mouch]

Youtube will supply the necessary techniques to circumvent any wall. Liveleak will show the most dramatic footage of those doing so!

Yet per Wikipedia about the Hungarian/Serbia-Croatian border wall:

Attempted border entries have fallen tremendously since the barrier was constructed. During the month of September 2015 there was a total number of 138,396 migrant entries, and by the first two weeks of November the average daily number of intercepted migrants decreased to only 15, which is a daily reduction of more than 4,500.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier for

Nonetheless, this emphasis on wall-building is irrelevant. The real immigration problems are wider. Its just a proxy argument on social and immigration policies.

And its clear now that those in favor of walls are going to win. The open-immigration advocates were wrong. The majority of illegal immigrants haven't been interested in integration, and are a significant burden on the host countries to generate a reasonable, but misguided, backlash. Its not gonna go away, IMO.

[[And remember, I'm in favor of immigration reform, amnesty, and increased immigration including from Hispanic & Islamic populations -- just not in favor of it being uncontrolled and on the immigrants terms.

[Richard]

You provided one example. Since when does one example of something garner the construction of a 20 billion dollar expense? Even your response now is based on emotion and little else. Show me the statistics that prove immigrants are coming in here at great numbers, stealing our jobs and murdering people at a higher rate than Americans already do. Do that and I'll gladly listen and take this as the problem you claim it to be.

I have provided one example but anybody is capable of using a search engine.

In all fairness,Mr Obama has deported more illegal immigrants with past felonies then any other president,even some with felonies going back 25 years were called in.

Flip side is a little HUD program called Neighborhood Diversification Program.

In this program cities are mandated to diversify neighborhoods,IE:you cannot have more then 50% of any race or nationality in any given neighborhood or the city will lose HUD funding.

How it works is any project that has received HUD funding,past or present can be called at any time by HUD to receive who they wish to be relocated.

If you as the property owner reject the relocation then the HUD loan or grant is recalled and due.

These discussions about whether or not to accept refugees within the community have no point.Because the only person that makes that decision is HUD and you really have no say in the matter.

Millions of immigrants have taken the path to citizenship which can take years to become citizens have one blip in the paperwork along that path and it is over,I know because I lost my wife over it,it is a long drawn out process where even the history of family members are checked and more red tape then a red tape factory can produce in 10 years.

But it is okay to lift others from a war torn countries with a free pass,so punish those who try to do it the right way and follow the rules and reward those who do not.

We have techs out of collage that cannot find a meaningful supportive job but yet if you are under 30 and from the Middle East or India you are given full citizenship via the lottery,under the guise that we have a brain drain in this country and we need to replace the ageing population.

So we tell our younger generation that knowledge and an education is the key to a better life,saddle them with years of debt then basically tell them uck you,welcome to the real world and bring others in to replace them while they go bus tables to pay off their student loans.

Southern,yes,I do take it personal because these are our neighbors,friends,family and fellow Americans and we are leaving them hanging out to dry as sacrificial lambs.

Why is it as a country we have so much compassion for others that we are willing to step over our own to get there?

Inner cities have education and standard of living problems but yet we spend billions of dollars relocating half of the world,maybe it is time to get our own house in order before,we start trying to better everybody elses at the cost of our own.

Build a wall or do not build a wall it really has nothing to do with it other then a focal point that something is seriously wrong and the time to do something about it is now.

[bust]

Richard, an interesting thing happened. I found the things you said about this supposed "Neighborhood Diversification Program" impossible to believe, and you provided no reference for it, so I tried googling to see what turned up. Only three hits from the entire world wide web:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22N...ion+Program%22

Two of them point to the same comment from a guy who goes by "Vlad the Impaler" and spews racist vitriol in comment sections. I'm not going to copy and paste what he said here because the words are too vile and filled with racial slurs. Feel free to read them for yourself:

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/f...n_the_streets/

The other one points to a web site some guy in Arizona runs called "ivotearizona.com" with the tag line "the next generation of conservatives":

http://ivotearizona.com/5-reasons-to...-to-us-senate/

Neither of those rather suspicious sources point to anything to back up their claim that the program exists. Seems very strange. Do you have any better sources?

And please don't send us to Alex Jones' Infowars site like you did last time. No one epitomizes the fringe right paranoid conspiracy theorists who spew their nonsense with no facts to support them better than he does.

Rolling Stone says he is "The most paranoid man in America is trying to overthrow the 'global Stasi Borg state,' one conspiracy theory at a time":

Meet Alex Jones

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...erica-20110302

Salon wrote an article about how he has turned the propagation of conspiracy theories into a multimillion dollar business:

Alex Jones: Conspiracy Inc.

http://www.salon.com/2013/05/02/alex...onspiracy_inc/

Slate wrote about his powerful influence spreading 9/11 conspiracy theories. They also discuss some of his other crazy theories, like the one that Bill Clinton orchestrated the Oklahoma City bombing to increase his poll numbers and as an excuse to suppress civil liberties:

Where Did 9/11 Conspiracies Come From?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...come_from.html

Vice wrote about how he uses his far right platform, government conspiracy theories, and doomsday talk to peddle his infowars line of dietary supplements and armageddon supplies [[huh??):

How Alex Jones Uses Fear of the Government to Sell Diet Supplements

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/infowars-life

The New Republic says he is the "master far-right conspiracist [[who) has emerged as a national force behind the rise of Trump":

At Trump’s Coronation, Alex Jones Is King

https://newrepublic.com/article/1353...lex-jones-king

The New Yorker dug into the details of the Trump - Alex Jones relationship in depth:

Donald Trump and the "Amazing" Alex Jones

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-...ing-alex-jones

And the Southern Poverty Law Center says "Alex Jones is almost certainly the most prolific conspiracy theorist in contemporary America":

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...ual/alex-jones

Meanwhile I noticed that on another thread you recently supported your theories on immigration with a link to the Federation for American Immigration Reform. The Southern Poverty Law Center calls them a hate group with ties to white supremacists and one mission: "to severely limit immigration into the United States":

How Do We Know FAIR is a Hate Group? Let Us Count the Ways

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...-us-count-ways

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...gration-reform

Facts are important. They are backed up by evidence.

To put it nicely, a reasonable person should be skeptical of your sources. I suggest it's a good idea to test whether their claims can be separately verified by facts.

[G-DDT]

Thank you-sincerely-,bust, for doing this research.

[Richard]

Try checking with HUD.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites...Final_Rule.pdf

[Jimaz]

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog is at it again: Triumph Throws Carnival for Trump Supporters.

[GMan]

[QUOTE=bust;512374]Richard, an interesting thing happened. I found the things you said about this supposed "Neighborhood Diversification Program" impossible to believe, and you provided no reference for it, so I tried googling to see what turned up. Only three hits from the entire world wide web.

Funny, I know someone in real estate and they had a class outlining the diversivication program.
IT's REAL!

The federal government is clever in tying ones hands by limiting funding if one does not comply.

Be it a company or an individual. Don't play the game and the government will put the squeeze on you. Problem is who's interest are they looking out for?

[Richard]

And as long as we are obsessed about building a wall let's look at Mrs. Clintons view on it.

https://www.facebook.com/thepeoplesv...4602727020505/

sorry bet it is a Facebook link,maybe somebody can make it a regular viewable link?

[jcole]

And as long as we are obsessed about building a wall let's look at Mrs. Clintons view on it.

https://www.facebook.com/thepeoplesv...4602727020505/

sorry bet it is a Facebook link,maybe somebody can make it a regular viewable link?

Facebook link leads to a page that is called yournewswire.com which is a satire site. Another wonderful bit of "proof"

[Richard]

Facebook link leads to a page that is called yournewswire.com which is a satire site. Another wonderful bit of "proof"

Satire? Seems to me it's a site that posts world news articles.

I would hardly call events going on in the world that effect people's lives satire.

[kathy2trips]

Does this ruins porn tour risk coming off as dog-whistling 'Look what [African-American] Democrats did?'

Back to the original topic, if I may:

It's not a matter of race; it's a matter of responsibility.

1) Give credit where credit is due: At least Trump bothered to come to Detroit at all....and not just to look at the pretty parts, either. Romney was born here, for cryin' out loud, and he couldn't be bothered to take a similar tour, as I recall. Hillary is too much of a snob [[or afraid of what they'll ask) to call a press conference, much less see Detroit first-hand and come up with workable solutions.

2) There is no explaining away the fact that Detroit has, indeed declined since the long string of Democrat leadership of the city began after the last GOP mayor, Louis Miriani, was defeated for office in 1961 [[55 years ago) by Cavanaugh....with overwhelming black support, but white support too. This is simple historical fact.

Look at all the businesses whose seeds had germinated in Detroit: From Masco to The Cheesecake Factory. And why aren't they in Detroit now?Because Detroit has been showing America what happens in a city where entrepreneurship is stifled and business are demonized, or shackled by forced unionization for the last 55 years. As a businessman, it makes sense Trump would want to be here for the experience of loss. Many discuss Detroit, but you have to at least visit here and SEE the vacant factories, warehouses and office buildings to understand how detrimental this has all been. And Trump did.

3) As far as the pejorative notion of "dog-whistle" is concerned, if you weren't directly responsible for the lack of jobs, looting of homes & buildings, vandalism, crime or personally participate in the deterioration of the city, the whistle should not be in a pitch you can hear.

However, crooked politicians, city officials, the people who supported them, and other similar entities of ANY race should feel publicly shamed on a national stage, and if this Trump being here offends their tender sensibilities...tough! In other words, if the shoe fits, wear it.

[archfan]

Try checking with HUD.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites...Final_Rule.pdf

Your link was to a draft of the final published rule. The HUD site describes the final version this way:

The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development [[HUD) has released a final rule to equip communities that receive HUD funding with the data and tools that will help them to meet long-standing fair housing obligations in their use of HUD funds. HUD will provide publicly open data for grantees to use to assess the state of fair housing within their communities and to set locally-determined priorities and goals. The rule responds to recommendations of the Government Accountability Office and stakeholders for HUD to enhance its fair housing planning obligations by providing greater clarity and support to jurisdictions receiving HUD funding, and facilitating local decision-making on fair housing priorities and goals.

In other words, the rule you talked about provides data and tools to let people assess whether they are complying with the Fair Housing Act of 1968. So I don't think this proves your point.

More: https://www.huduser.gov/portal/affht_pt.html#final-rule

[bust]

Try checking with HUD.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites...Final_Rule.pdf

Richard, rest easy. I took a look at the "Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing" component of the Fair Housing Act you referenced. None of the details you describe are true.

Cities are not mandated to forcibly diversify neighborhoods. There are no quotas or thresholds to trigger government actions. There are no requirements for a project to accept people who are in the process of relocation. This has nothing to do with refugees. The only requirement for property owners who have received HUD funding is to evaluate applications for housing "free from discrimination against individuals because of their membership in protected classes." [[Those protected classes are listed below.) The law is about equal opportunity. And if the law is violated HUD can deny funding but past grants are not retroactively recalled and due.

And archfan is correct: the Obama administration did nothing to substantially alter the law. Basically, they provided data and tools to assist the self-assessment HUD money recipients must submit to prove their compliance with the law, and they updated some requirements of that self-assessment.

The law itself dates back to 1968. I thought a thorough and easy-to-read explanation was in order. The Westchester [[New York) Residential Opportunities organization published one in 2013. They are a HUD approved not-for-profit housing counseling agency that "promotes equal, affordable & accessible housing opportunities for all residents in [[the Westchester) region".

A Short Summary of Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing:

http://www.wroinc.org/services/fairhousing/affh

A More Detailed Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing Brochure:

http://www.wroinc.org/assets/INT.Aff...irHousing1.pdf

All following information is from the brochure.

What does "affirmatively furthering fair housing" mean?

"Federal grant recipients must strive to not only maintain housing markets that are free from discrimination but also promote the expansion of housing that is open to all without regard to race or color, national origin, sex, religion, family status, and handicap or disability."

What classes of people are protected under law?

Federal law protects against discrimination based on the following:

• Race
• Color
• Religion or creed
• Sex or gender
• National origin [[includes those with limited English proficiency)
• Disability [[physical or mental)
• Familial status [[families with at least one child under 18; pregnant women; people in the process of adopting or gaining custody of a child)

Some state and local jurisdictions have added other protected classes.

How did this law come about?

"Various statutes issued by Congress; executive orders; and court decisions, including the Fair Housing Act [[1968), the Housing and Community Development Act [[1974), the Fair Housing Amendments Act [[1988), the National Affordable Housing Act [[1990), and President Bill Clinton's executive order 12892 [[1994), give authority to the requirement and make it clear that HUD as well as its grantees are obligated to prevent an increase in segregation and increase the “supply of genuinely open housing.” In addition, through Executive Order 12259 [[1980), the heads of all executive agencies that conduct programs and activities related to housing and community development — including entities that regulate and oversee financial institutions — have an obligation to affirmatively further fair housing in those activities. Federal regulations issued by HUD also reinforce the obligation."

How does it work?

"The award of federal monies by HUD to governments, public housing authorities, and nonprofit organizations is contingent upon their agreement to affirmatively further fair housing."

What are the specifics?

"HUD has required its grant recipients to do three things:

1) analyze the barriers to fair housing in their jurisdiction;
2) take positive action to reduce those impediments and further inclusive patterns of housing;
3) keep records of their analysis and actions taken [[U.S. HUD FHEO 1996). Governments that apply for HUD money must certify that they will take action to remove barriers to fair housing, or affirmatively further fair housing in their jurisdictions."

What is needed to fulfill the requirement to "analyze the barriers"?

It's called an Analysis of Impediments [[AI), and it's "a self-assessment of the grant recipients' and subrecipients' local conditions and demographics and should include a study of housing barriers and opportunities for those in protected classes. HUD's Fair Housing Planning Guide explains the AI's purposes and suggested components. HUD defines impediments to fair housing as: “Any actions, omissions, or decisions taken because of race, color, religion, sex, disability, familial status, or national origin which restrict housing choices or the availability of housing choices; or any actions, omissions, or decisions that have the effect of restricting housing choices for the same protected classes” [[U.S. HUD FHEO 1996, p. 2-8)."

What does "positive action" mean?

"Among the many [[positive action) steps possible, grant recipients may undertake fair housing activities as part of their actions to affirmatively further fair housing. They might investigate appraisal practices, commission fair housing and fair lending testing in their area, and support education and outreach efforts that can equip residents and housing providers with knowledge about rights and such illegal activities as predatory lending. Action could also include collaborating with other jurisdictions to conduct regional fair housing planning."

What does it mean to "keep records"?

"The final requirement of affirmatively furthering fair housing is to keep records of all analysis and the corresponding actions taken. Affirmatively furthering fair housing certifications are submitted by states and entitlement jurisdictions … to HUD in their five-year Consolidated Plans and must report on their activities to further fair housing in additional documents required of HUD grantees."

How is the law enforced?

"Under the [[affirmatively furthering fair housing) mandate, HUD may review AIs [[the self-assessments) and Action Plans, perform compliance reviews, and monitor ongoing activities of grantees. It can investigate when there have been complaints and seek voluntary compliance if it finds a jurisdiction is not affirmatively furthering fair housing. It may also deny funding to entities that are found to be discriminating or not to be taking action to promote inclusive housing [[U.S. HUD 2013)."

What did Obama change?

That was already covered by archfan and above. You can find an executive summary of the changes here:

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/sites...ve_Summary.pdf

There's nothing in there about relocating refugees.

I sincerely encourage you to reconsider your sources.

Please let us know if any of this information is incorrect.