RTA's new "Reflex" service

[Gistok]

The Gratiot Route really should have an extra stop between 9 Mile Rd. and 12 Mile Rd. No stop for 3 miles is quite a bit. Halfway would be Eastgate Center at 10 1/2 Mile, one of the more retail intensive sections of Gratiot.

It would make sense because stops at 9, 10 1/2, 12 and 13 1/2 Mile Roads are the 4 major south Macomb retail areas, each 1 1/2 miles from the next.

[middetres]

The Gratiot Route really should have an extra stop between 9 Mile Rd. and 12 Mile Rd. No stop for 3 miles is quite a bit. Halfway would be Eastgate Center at 10 1/2 Mile, one of the more retail intensive sections of Gratiot.

It would make sense because stops at 9, 10 1/2, 12 and 13 1/2 Mile Roads are the 4 major south Macomb retail areas, each 1 1/2 miles from the next.

I think a stop should be added to the Woodward line at Maple and Coolidge. Nothing between downtown Birmingham and Somerset is a long way.

It makes sense to connect to the Troy/Birmingham transit center there for transfer to other routes and Amtrak. Plus that area has lots of retail with lots of employment opportunities.

[Danny]

I would like to see the RTA's Reflex service extend to other places like Twelve Oaks, Laurel Park Mall, Briarwood Mall, Great Oaks Mall, Westland Mall, Oakland Mall, Great Lakes Crossing and Partridge Creek too.

BTW. Sorry Livonia, you are going to join the RTA bandwagon, too. can opt out of this proposal.

Vote yes on the RTA and we may get these regional transit services, to the malls and beyond. Vote no and its over. Back to D-DOT AND SMART with the People Mover ND M-1 Light Rail to nowheresville.

[Bobl]

Just received the first robocall from an anti RTA group. It's going to be a long month!

[dtowncitylover]

Just received the first robocall from an anti RTA group. It's going to be a long month!

What did it say?

Wait, let me guess...blah blah blah taxes blah blah no more taxes blah blah we already have transit blah blah blah not in my backyard blah blah blah

[Bobl]

What did it say?

Wait, let me guess...blah blah blah taxes blah blah no more taxes blah blah we already have transit blah blah blah not in my backyard blah blah blah

You pretty much nailed it. Also it will in some cases "...replace one lane for bus only, leading to more traffic congestion...". I suspect it will be defeated in Macomb County, not sure about the whole region. RTA will need a good public relations campaign. Haven't seen it yet, other than one mailing.

[dtowncitylover]

You pretty much nailed it. Also it will in some cases "...replace one lane for bus only, leading to more traffic congestion...". I suspect it will be defeated in Macomb County, not sure about the whole region. RTA will need a good public relations campaign. Haven't seen it yet, other than one mailing.

LOL The stupidest argument I also continually hear. No the loss of one lane is supposed to supplant those people who would usually drive in that lane who now take transit.

[dtowncitylover]

You pretty much nailed it. Also it will in some cases "...replace one lane for bus only, leading to more traffic congestion...". I suspect it will be defeated in Macomb County, not sure about the whole region. RTA will need a good public relations campaign. Haven't seen it yet, other than one mailing.

LOL The stupidest argument I also continually hear. No the loss of one lane is supposed to supplant those people who would usually drive in that lane who now take transit.

And it doesn't matter if it does fail in Macomb [[it might be narrowly), it's regional vote. Macomb can vote no and if the entire region says yes, it still passes.

[GMan]

LOL The stupidest argument I also continually hear. No the loss of one lane is supposed to supplant those people who would usually drive in that lane who now take transit.

And it doesn't matter if it does fail in Macomb [[it might be narrowly), it's regional vote. Macomb can vote no and if the entire region says yes, it still passes.

I think more in terms of how the reduced lane will be occupied by an unsuspecting motorist on their cell phone, not paying attention then cursing out the bus driver for blowing their horn at them to move out of the lane so the bus can move through. Oh wait just had a flashback to Cambridge where I saw this with their bus only lanes.

[Bobl]

Have not seen any polls on this. We will be among the minority of Macomb County voting yes, but doubt that it will even be close here. The degree of resistance to any kind of regional approach to anything is easy to under estimate. It is real.

[dtowncitylover]

Have not seen any polls on this. We will be among the minority of Macomb County voting yes, but doubt that it will even be close here. The degree of resistance to any kind of regional approach to anything is easy to under estimate. It is real.

Totally agree. I've heard that internal polling is good and when voters are actually educated about the plan, support for it rises. But you're right, the advertising and outreach is lackluster. The RTA can't officially campaign YES, so C3 has to do it.

http://voteyesforregionaltransit.com/

[scooter]

Last time the SMART millage passes in Macomb it was a blowout, probaly going to be the same with RTA

[dtowncitylover]

Last time the SMART millage passes in Macomb it was a blowout, probaly going to be the same with RTA

But they see the RTA millage as another tax on top of the SMART tax, which I get and pretty much true. But they have to realize, a lot more service, routes, and equipment and even manpower will come from this. On top of the fact, getting money from DC will be easier for the first time in decades. So that's billions more we can look forward to.

[professorscott]

On top of the fact, getting money from DC will be easier for the first time in decades. So that's billions more we can look forward to.

That's a great point, dtown, and it hasn't been made very effectively [[your post excepted). FTA funded projects always [[and I mean always) require a local match from a long-term dedicated funding source. The SMART millage doesn't provide enough money to set aside any to match Federal project funds, and DDOT has no officially dedicated source of funding at all. The various RTA projects will most likely be built using FTA "New Start" or "Small Start" funds, in addition to RTA funding, and we'd never be able to build any of this without such sources of money.

[Bobl]

Just got ANOTHER robo call against RTA. Yes, it is going to be a long month.

[mtburb]

Bump: while doing unrelated searching, I stumbled upon this ancient thread made a decade ago that predicted some things correctly [[i.e. the Somerset branch was actually implemented and we did get dedicated wraps).

Live link: http://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messa...tml?1156510037

[stasu1213]

This service could be great for those who want to park and ride going downtown to an event such as a Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, or would be Pistons game without having to pay for parking and getting their cars vandalize. DDOT and SMART are not doing a good job advertising this service. I had caught it a few times and it is great. I could hang out in Detroit or Royal Oak after 6pm weekdays or weekends and catch the reflex bus home

[DetroitNightLights]

I never understood why everyone thinks Detroit transit is so bad. All the radial roads except Fort run buses around 12-20 minutes apart 24/7. Most secondary lines could reach these pretty quick and it takes about 45 minutes to get downtown from the city boarder once on the main lines.

The ONLY problems for me were if you needed to transfer or go into the suburbs. Many of the transfer lines were unreliable and would change without notice. The suburban SMART lines were too infrequent and stopped too early in the day to be of use.

The new app might make the transfer issue more bearable, so the main existing problem is the transfer between DDOT and SMART at the city borders. Why don't we just have one bus system for the region? Why do the main radial road lines stop at the boarder? Do we need to make these five or six radial lines reflex routes?

The Radial Lines:

• Fort [[Route 19) -Fort does not run 24/7.
• Grand River [[Route 21)
• Gratiot [[Route 34)
• Jefferson [[Route 25)
• Michigan [[Route 37)
• Woodward [[Route 53)

Other Route Schedules & Map

[mtburb]

Inspired by DetroitNightLights, here's a conceptual map I just finished showing possible new Reflex routes along the other radial roads out of downtown Detroit. Comments are welcome.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IK...m4&usp=sharing

[stasu1213]

I think that the Reflex services are not being advertised so that more people would use it especially during Red Wings and Pistons night time games. I catches it daily when I'm hanging out downtown after 6pm when regular SMART cease coming into Detroit's city limit. The service is great for those attending events downtown especially the games who don't want to pay for high parking fees whether in a lot or a meter in downtown. However, this is the Motor city which discourage anything opposing the automobile including parking and alternative way of getting around

[Tig3rzhark]

I think that the Reflex services are not being advertised so that more people would use it especially during Red Wings and Pistons night time games. I catches it daily when I'm hanging out downtown after 6pm when regular SMART cease coming into Detroit's city limit. The service is great for those attending events downtown especially the games who don't want to pay for high parking fees whether in a lot or a meter in downtown. However, this is the Motor city which discourage anything opposing the automobile including parking and alternative way of getting around

That's what needs to be changed. Metro Detroit itself can't keep discouraging anything opposing the automobile. You think the bankruptcy of the big 3 would have taught us that but, I digress...

[casscorridor]

I never understood why everyone thinks Detroit transit is so bad. All the radial roads except Fort run buses around 12-20 minutes apart 24/7. Most secondary lines could reach these pretty quick and it takes about 45 minutes to get downtown from the city boarder once on the main lines.

The ONLY problems for me were if you needed to transfer or go into the suburbs. Many of the transfer lines were unreliable and would change without notice. The suburban SMART lines were too infrequent and stopped too early in the day to be of use.

The new app might make the transfer issue more bearable, so the main existing problem is the transfer between DDOT and SMART at the city borders. Why don't we just have one bus system for the region? Why do the main radial road lines stop at the boarder? Do we need to make these five or six radial lines reflex routes?

The Radial Lines:

• Fort [[Route 19) -Fort does not run 24/7.
• Grand River [[Route 21)
• Gratiot [[Route 34)
• Jefferson [[Route 25)
• Michigan [[Route 37)
• Woodward [[Route 53)

Other Route Schedules & Map

You're joking, right? Detroit transit is abysmal, even by American standards. And the US, in general, has abysmal transit. So Detroit is abysmal even by abysmal standards.

[dtowncitylover]

If RefleX could provide every 15 minutes service that would be great...

[DetroitNightLights]

You're joking, right? Detroit transit is abysmal, even by American standards. And the US, in general, has abysmal transit. So Detroit is abysmal even by abysmal standards.

Where I'm living now, you have to call up the transit HQ and they send out a repurposed school bus to pick you up and go the route. Trust me, Detroit transit is not as abysmal as you might think.

[DetroitNightLights]

Inspired by DetroitNightLights, here's a conceptual map I just finished showing possible new Reflex routes along the other radial roads out of downtown Detroit. Comments are welcome.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1IK...m4&usp=sharing

That is exactly what we need! Maybe extend the Grand River route to Twelve Oaks, but otherwise I like it. When I visited Disney World as a kid I remember the parking guy telling my Mom and Dad to follow the purple line painted on the pavement to our hotel. There were multiple colored lines eventually going off in other directions for the other hotels. Painting a line near the curb in a neon color might help those who are not used to taking transit and looking at maps find their route more easily. These routes could be color coded, and include color on the bus, stations, and road, giving them a similar impact as light rail. Everyone will know that whatever color reflex bus line will come down this road.

The buses themselves should be of a different design, as a means of shaking off the bad reputation of busses. I have found that the negative connotations are not present with Solaris style busses and double decker busses. Detroit should look into one of these options further.

Regardless of what type of transit we use, transit tends to strengthen urban places that are already walkable, and tends to fail when it is expected to be the primary driver of growth. Therefore, the QLine should expand slowly to areas north if it is needed, and the flex busses should stitch together areas that are already nice and walkable, like it is doing with Birmingham, Royal Oak, and downtown Detroit.

Woodward and Gratiot need light rail for the increased capacity. The other routes should probably utilize new busses. I am not sure if something different should be done with the Michigan route, since it would essentially be a twin of the commuter rail line through the area. I am not sure if something different should be done along the Jefferson route, given the initiative to create water taxis and trolley busses along the river.

Raising the fare of the People Mover money pit should also be looked at. Seattle's elevated monorail turns a profit somehow. Florida's People Mover is free. They should raise the fare for "tourist" riders and provide free rides as a convenience to those who take the bus or rail lines.

Last, how about looking into subsidizing ride sharing programs like Uber and Lyft for solutions to the first and last mile problem like some other cities are doing?