US Customs jumpy

[Jimaz]

It seems to me the really interesting story would be about what happens when a legitimate American citizen is deprived reentry into his own country due to some inappropriate red tape.

Has this happened yet? I would assume so in some rare conditions but I have yet to hear of such a story reported. Maybe that story is yet to be reported? Are there currently any Americans trying to reenter their country that are being somehow silenced?

What happens when a legitimate American citizen is denied reentry? What are his rights? What procedure must he follow to reenter?

If I leave my country without following all the rules, can I ever return? If not, how does that not make me a prisoner of my own country?

Is this a free country or not?

[Roq]

^IMO turning around to get an ID is not the point. The issue is absurdity that he should even need any to waste his time and money doing so just to go to another part of town.

Another part of town?

Isn't Canada still a foreign country?

[eriedearie]

Crossed over the Ambassador Bridge yesterday with hubby and grandson. We all had our proper credentials. Strange question asked by the border guard, was "have any of you ever been denied entry into the US?" When we answered no, he sent us on our way.

Now why would he ask that? If one of us would have said yes, what would the next step have been? Besides, why would someone that has been denied access into the US actually answer yes? Are the border guards not supposed to have the most up-to-date information on all of us at their fingertips? At least that is my understanding when they are in their little booths pecking on their keyboards.

[Bobl]

Another part of town?

Isn't Canada still a foreign country?

I believe Lowell is looking at the region. Rather than individual enclaves, he sees the metropolitan area as a whole.
It would be good for our economic and social welfare if more of us did. The increased border "security" takes us in another direction.
I put security in quotes because it is not only counter productive to trade, but also a sham. No determined group is going to be prevented from nefarious activity by the new rules. They will simply acquire forged documents or cross undetected in small boats.

[Toolbox]

Crossed over the Ambassador Bridge yesterday with hubby and grandson. We all had our proper credentials. Strange question asked by the border guard, was "have any of you ever been denied entry into the US?" When we answered no, he sent us on our way.

Now why would he ask that? If one of us would have said yes, what would the next step have been? Besides, why would someone that has been denied access into the US actually answer yes? Are the border guards not supposed to have the most up-to-date information on all of us at their fingertips? At least that is my understanding when they are in their little booths pecking on their keyboards.

They want to see how you answer the questions. They also ask the same question several different ways to see if you change your answer. It is SOP.

If you do not answer their questions truthfully you can be denied entry. Almost happened to a coworker when a group I was in was crossing on a business trip.

[jcole]

I believe Lowell is looking at the region. Rather than individual enclaves, he sees the metropolitan area as a whole.
It would be good for our economic and social welfare if more of us did. The increased border "security" takes us in another direction.
I put security in quotes because it is not only counter productive to trade, but also a sham. No determined group is going to be prevented from nefarious activity by the new rules. They will simply acquire forged documents or cross undetected in small boats.

If Windsor is part of Detroit, does it then follow that so is the rest of Canada? If not, how are they supposed to police the traffic between the two countries? Set up custom booths on all highways entering and leaving the city of Windsor? Should Detroit be the only city to not have to go through customs, or should we have open borders between all adjoining countries[[Canada AND Mexico)? I'm sure the people in El Paso/Juarez would like to get rid of their passports, too.

[detmich]

If Windsor is part of Detroit, does it then follow that so is the rest of Canada? If not, how are they supposed to police the traffic between the two countries? Set up custom booths on all highways entering and leaving the city of Windsor?

No but apparently, Toronto is part of Buffalo and we now own all of Niagra Falls. The down side is Northern New York, Vermont, and Maine now speak French instead of English. C'est la vie I suppose.

[stinkbug]

There is a nearly unanimous consensus that the border is a clusterfuck and the stormtroopers stationed there are abusive. What can we do as indivduals? Who can we write to or call?

We went to a lovely vacation spot in Ontario a couple weekends ago. The line back took 2 hours at the Sarnia border because the guards were questioning each car for 5 - 10 minutes.

Their questions are predictible and stupid and recycled, so I have no problem breezing through them. However, it still took about 5 minutes[[after the two hour wait in line). What disturbed me most was the jackbooted thug asked to look in my girlfriend's suitcase. Why? What reasonable suspicious did he have that he could invade my/her privacy like that? She was upset after the whole ordeal.

I have trouble masking my contempt for those guards. They're the jocks from high school who used to throw kids against lockers and their attitude hasn't changed. We depend on our local police and even our military personnel to be polite when we encounter them, why are they the exception? Do people break down and confess over their rudeness? How effective is any of this in one of the largest undefended borders in the world?

When I went to France they asked, "Where are you going?"; that was it. Why do we have to put up with this treatment, as law abiding citizens? It is doing us no good and hurting our economies and our relationship with our neighbor.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states, "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." So why are we treated like criminals for doing so?

[detmich]

Hey, have any of you guys seen these new fangled Nexus border crossing thingies? I hear they make frequent trips really easy, but they emit mind weather controlling chemtrails. Oh, and don't switch to DTV either, that's just a mind control tool.

[detmich]

Stormtroopers? Really? I think the consensus is that is a silly comparison.

There is a nearly unanimous consensus that the border is a clusterfuck and the stormtroopers stationed there are abusive. What can we do as indivduals? Who can we write to or call?

We went to a lovely vacation spot in Ontario a couple weekends ago. The line back took 2 hours at the Sarnia border because the guards were questioning each car for 5 - 10 minutes.

Their questions are predictible and stupid and recycled, so I have no problem breezing through them. However, it still took about 5 minutes[[after the two hour wait in line). What disturbed me most was the jackbooted thug asked to look in my girlfriend's suitcase. Why? What reasonable suspicious did he have that he could invade my/her privacy like that? She was upset after the whole ordeal.

I have trouble masking my contempt for those guards. They're the jocks from high school who used to throw kids against lockers and their attitude hasn't changed. We depend on our local police and even our military personnel to be polite when we encounter them, why are they the exception? Do people break down and confess over their rudeness? How effective is any of this in one of the largest undefended borders in the world?

When I went to France they asked, "Where are you going?"; that was it. Why do we have to put up with this treatment, as law abiding citizens? It is doing us no good and hurting our economies and our relationship with our neighbor.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states, "Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country." So why are we treated like criminals for doing so?

[Bobl]

s:
"...We went to a lovely vacation spot in Ontario a couple weekends ago. The line back took 2 hours at the Sarnia border because the guards were questioning each car for 5 - 10 minutes..."

We often visited the many lovely vacation spots in Ontario. Grand Bend, Bayfield, Goderich, Sauble Beach and Tobermory are some. All were very nice.

We stopped for two reasons. First, my job was outsourced to Mexico and India, which reduced our income. Second, we experienced rudeness upon returning a few times and we resent the new requirements.

Just a suggestion: We found that crossing back via the ferry at Walpole Island to Algonac was often quicker and always more pleasant than the bridges or tunnel. The border agents there were actually polite and professional!

[Awfavre]

Bobl, you’re right about the ferries Customs officers. I always recommend folks cross at the ferries on the St. Clair River, instead of the Blue Water Bridges. It’s always faster & more pleasant.

eriedearie, Toolbox is right about why Customs officers ask the seemingly stupid questions they do – they’re waiting to see your reaction. It’s a profiling technique, I suppose.

As for my personal experiences, I’ve crossed the border several times a year for many years now with my passport, & I’ve never [knock on wood] had a problem with Customs on either side, though the US side certainly takes the cake on attitude. The Canadian Customs officers are always nicer, though they’ve gotten a bit more, well, stuffy since they’ve been able to carry guns.

On the other hand, I have a friend with a Nexus pass who lives in Sarnia, & he always seems to have problems – with Customs on both sides. Frankly, I think it’s because he has an authority issue. The same Customs Officer with whom he may have a problem on any given day is always nice to me [[when we get the same officer, that is).

[jcole]

The wait at the Blue Water Bridge has been a nightmare since 2001, well before the requirement for passports went into effect. The traffic on the Canadian side has been known to back up past Airport Rd on a Sunday afternoon. This isn't a function of the passport requirement.

[SWMAP]

I cross the Border at the Ambassador bridge at least weekly as I have a cottage on Lake Erie near Kingsville. I do find many U.S. Border agents to be like power-sated bullies - demanding to know what you had for dinner [[because they can) and lately, demanding to see what I have in a tote bag in the car. I am a highly unlikely terrorist and, from my age, unlikely to be running drugs.

I have a passport and a clean record. I can put up with the dumb questions that they already have the answer to on their screens [["Are you the registered owner of this car") but demandinjg to know exactly how I know my passenger and what I had for dinner is too far for this American citizen. I always lie about dinner.

[Danny]

Well Marty " MAR--N!" is in his 'Checkpoint Charlie business.

[48302]

A friend of mine was telling me how utterly inconvenient it is to get across the border to Canada. This person claims that it takes them hours to cross the border back after fielding multiple questions.

This person also claimed that it is BS that they have to carry a passport.

I DONT GET IT!

Canada is a different country, and it has different laws that govern their access points. The Canadian government is not the US government. They arent looking for the same things, and it is easier to get into Canada, because Canadians arent as concerned with National security as we are....probably because they are liked more internationally.

I know that some of you in the past have expressed concern and even anger over the fact that border security has tightened, and the fact that you have to carry a "bulky" passport, when you cross the border.

I would like to hear why these rules are different than in Europe, where I have always thought you had to carry your passport a well...

I don't get it...really. Please help me out here.

[Lowell]

The requirement of a passport, never before required, for travel to and from Canada, accompanied with the frequent indignities imposed by border guards particularly on the US, side is very damaging to the down and out economy of metro Detroit-Windsor. That's the big deal.

Tourism is discouraged as tourists are reluctant to spend money on passports or passcards, to have to remember to bring them [one missing passport by one person in the car and the trip can be ruined - gas, time, bridge fares, screaming guards and more, all lost]. People stay home, tourism businesses lose, people get laid off. That's the big deal.

At the business level, delays caused by inspections, by missing passports, etc. cause trucks to idle on the bridge with huge losses in man hours, wear and tear on vehicles, fuel etc. Compared to crossing a bridge from, say, Philadelphia to Camden, the losses are in the millions. That's the big deal.

On the governmental level, the border is suddenly, in the past few years, swarming with guards in cars, on foot, on bicycle, in boats, in the air and now with drones and balloons. A centuries old peaceful border is slowly and expensively being militarized. More millions lost.That's the big deal.

And the two countries affected? They are allies in war right this minute and several times in the past. They have been at peace with each other since 1815 and have become each other's largest trading partners. In that same span of time countries, like many in Europe, have murdered millions of each other's citizens in wars, yet today their citizens pass freely across their borders with no border guards or stopping. That's the big deal.

[48302]

1 The requirement of a passport, never before required, for travel to and from Canada, accompanied with the frequent indignities imposed by border guards particularly on the US, side is very damaging to the down and out economy of metro Detroit-Windsor. That's the big deal.

2 Tourism is discouraged as tourists are reluctant to spend money on passports or passcards, to have to remember to bring them [one missing passport by one person in the car and the trip can be ruined - gas, time, bridge fares, screaming guards and more, all lost]. People stay home, tourism businesses lose, people get laid off. That's the big deal.

3 At the business level, delays caused by inspections, by missing passports, etc. cause trucks to idle on the bridge with huge losses in man hours, wear and tear on vehicles, fuel etc. Compared to crossing a bridge from, say, Philadelphia to Camden, the losses are in the millions. That's the big deal.

4On the governmental level, the border is suddenly, in the past few years, swarming with guards in cars, on foot, on bicycle, in boats, in the air and now with drones and balloons. A centuries old peaceful border is slowly and expensively being militarized. More millions lost.That's the big deal.

5And the two countries affected? They are allies in war right this minute and several times in the past. They have been at peace with each other since 1815 and have become each other's largest trading partners. In that same span of time countries, like many in Europe, have murdered millions of each other's citizens in wars, yet today their citizens pass freely across their borders with no border guards or stopping. That's the big deal.

1. Just because it was never needed before doesn't mean that it isn't needed now. Have there been studies showing the damage that this increased security has caused? What is the tru economic impact?

2. Is getting a passport that big of a deal? I am not trying to minimize your plight. Lowell...and I know this is your board, but I hardly see the problem in getting a passport....it is almost like getting a drivers license, although you dont need to take a test. On top of that, there are many places that i can't go without a drivers license as well...if I forget it, then I can't go. Thems the rules.

3. One could say that the wear and tear to the vehicles is a benefit to the economy, becasue more people have to get their car serviced...although the reality is that this factor you speak of is minimal.

4. Again, just becasue it used to be a certain way, doesnt mean that it should be that way for the future. Things change. Years ago, we didnt need security at the airports either. Things hanged, and suddenly we felt better as a society that the airports actually checked our luggage, instead of asking us the stupid question "Did you pack your bags". The border has changed as well. Like it or not, some things just take a little longer now, INCLUDING but not limited to crossing the border.

5. I don't know, Lowell, but I have been to Europe on many occasions [[business and personal), and honestly, that isnt what I aspire to be. Just because they do it one way, doesn't mean it is the better way.

Heck Lowell, with all due respect [[since this is your board, not mine) I disagree with you almost entirely. In fact, I believe your argument is somewhat insignificant [[other than the fact that it seems like this really bothers you personally)

Personal feeling aside, though, the reasons behind a secure border outweigh our desire to have a painfree crossing.

It's like I say to my wife, "dont sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."

I hope you see fit to leave my post unedited, because even though I disagree with you completely on this issue, it is a matter of opinion.

[48302]

Originally Posted by sumas
With this new law, I have not been to Canada for at least two years. I personally refuse to get a passport to visit a sister north american nation. My brothers wife is Canadian and they visit there frequently. He has five kids, I thought it sucked that he had to pony up the money for 7 passports.

I don't like the border guard mentality. I don't like feeling like they think everyone is some kind of criminal.

For the eleventybillionth time you do not need a fucking passport for children under 16 to drive into Canada. An enhanced state ID card will work too.

I have found the guards to be very easy to work with. During non peak times some have been very fun to talk with.

1. not sure if eleventybillion is a number....

but i get your point.

2. Sumas, the law hasnt been in effect for two years? And what is so bad about getting passports? People all over the world have to get passports when they go to foreign countries...Are passports that inconvenient?

Next thing you know people are going to go crazy that they have to get drivers licenses!

[48302]

I cross the Border at the Ambassador bridge at least weekly as I have a cottage on Lake Erie near Kingsville. I do find many U.S. Border agents to be like power-sated bullies - demanding to know what you had for dinner [[because they can) and lately, demanding to see what I have in a tote bag in the car. I am a highly unlikely terrorist and, from my age, unlikely to be running drugs.

I have a passport and a clean record. I can put up with the dumb questions that they already have the answer to on their screens [["Are you the registered owner of this car") but demandinjg to know exactly how I know my passenger and what I had for dinner is too far for this American citizen. I always lie about dinner.

What does a terrorist look like?

While I am not completely against racial profiling, it strikes me as funny that people are so quick to believe that a terrist looks like X....

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Again, just becasue it used to be a certain way, doesnt mean that it should be that way for the future."

Ever since the acquisition of our "most revered" "ally", this seems to be the case.

Quote: "Like it or not, "

I don't like it.

[Gannon]

PET the sweaty things!

Anyone denying them their due attention is pure evil.

[Lowell]

You asked a question, you got my answers. If you are comfortable with our reigon's economy losing millions of needless dollars, having thousands of innocent people regularly inconvenienced, even humiliated, all for an illusion of security there is little I can add. It is no big deal -- to you.

[Bobl]

The key words to Lowell's post:

The illusion of security.

Can anyone show how these new rules offer any more security? Will those who wish harm not simply acquire forged documents?

[Toolbox]

You asked a question, you got my answers. If you are comfortable with our reigon's economy losing millions of needless dollars, having thousands of innocent people regularly inconvenienced, even humiliated, all for an illusion of security there is little I can add. It is no big deal -- to you.

The TSA is a much bigger illusion of security than any Customs Agent. The shit they let slide is not even funny and needless waiting. I get held up more at the airport than any international border and I am not even leaving the country.