Suspected Islamic extremist kills 50+ at club in Orlando

[Johnnny5]

The question remains what do we do to prevent another terror attack among innocents here in US?

Sad to say, but we can't. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World and even if just a tiny percentage of Muslims hold violent and extremist views, it's still a force of such size that we can never defeat them. I'm of the opinion that the only long term solution for reducing the threat of Islamic terrorism to the U.S is to reduce our involvement in the affairs of Islamic nations.

Osama Bin Laden himself wrote a letter to America detailing his reasons for attacking the U.S and repeatedly cited our military and political activities in the Middle East. We've already spent nearly two decades fighting this battle. So much so that many of the Muslim extremists we're fighting today in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan were just young children on 911. Whether we call them Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the Taliban or ISIS it makes no difference. Even if we do manage to defeat ISIS we'll only be ingraining hatred for the West in the next generation.

[Bigb23]

A gay Muslim terrorist ? I don't think even ISIS will touch that.

[oladub]

Sad to say, but we can't. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World and even if just a tiny percentage of Muslims hold violent and extremist views, it's still a force of such size that we can never defeat them. I'm of the opinion that the only long term solution for reducing the threat of Islamic terrorism to the U.S is to reduce our involvement in the affairs of Islamic nations.

Osama Bin Laden himself wrote a letter to America detailing his reasons for attacking the U.S and repeatedly cited our military and political activities in the Middle East. We've already spent nearly two decades fighting this battle. So much so that many of the Muslim extremists we're fighting today in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan were just young children on 911. Whether we call them Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the Taliban or ISIS it makes no difference. Even if we do manage to defeat ISIS we'll only be ingraining hatred for the West in the next generation.

I agree about getting out. In fact Omar said "he had gone on a killing spree because he “wanted America to stop bombing his country."" His "country" probably meant Afghanistan though he was born and educated in the US. We've seen a number of Somali kids raised in the Twin Cities go off to fight for Islam too. One of the few good things Obama has done is to fund the development of EVs. Let's get out of the mideast and make it difficult for mid-easterners to do more than visit the States. Enough is enough. They still have oil and should be ok without us.

"At least 480,000 people overstayed their visas last year [[not just from the mid-east), adding to a backlog that’s reached some 5 million total, members of Congress said. But immigration agents launched investigations into just 10,000 of them, or about 0.2 percent, and arrested fewer than 2,000, less than 0.04 percent"

Our government has failed in its priorities. Its computers and borders no longer work. Our infrastructure is failing. High speed railroads never got built. It favors foreign interests over our own.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/14/illegal-immigrants-who-overstay-visas-almost-never/

[G-DDT]

First off, prior to this incident, the two biggest American shootings involved Trump supporters in Houston and K-Zoo; yet, I don't think most Trump supporters want to be aligned with these [[yet, I caught live news coverage at a North Carolina, and one can hear Trump shouting at the top of his lungs in the background of the reporter, and he sounds an awful lot like Hitler did.).

Second, Mateen's ex-wife is mentioned saying he wasn't very religioushttp://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-m...ive-terrorism/. Yet, she [[who goes by the name "Star") is turning this into a matter of his faith conflicting his orientation situation. Difficult to say what prompted what...

Also, the Amarillo shooting is being presented by the media as a disgruntled work place violence situation.http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/amaril...-video-photos/

Finally, the Boko Haram incident in Nigeria is horrific and under reported. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-13809501Yet, this BBC report does make clear that other Muslims are targeted by them. This bloodiness has happened for years between factions of Jews against Jews [[and God forbid you be labeled as a "self-hating Jew") and Christians VS. Christians [[all from 313AD up to the times surrounding the Reformation). It doesn't excuse any of it in this day and age, yet, I agree with Obama about not singling out an entire religion because of garish sweeping generalizations and broad brush strokes.

[G-DDT]

First off, prior to this incident, the two biggest American shootings involved Trump supporters in Houston and K-Zoo; yet, I don't think most Trump supporters want to be aligned with these [[yet, I caught live news coverage at a North Carolina, and one can hear Trump shouting at the top of his lungs in the background of the reporter, and he sounds an awful lot like Hitler did.).

I may be wrong about Trump's most recent shouting spree. I did scope the coverage of the Tarheel rally, and the only one really losing their lid was the bald African American man hired to pump up [[in huge boisterous shouts) the audience in his introduction of the Birthday Boy.

[Bobl]

First off, prior to this incident, the two biggest American shootings involved Trump supporters in Houston and K-Zoo; yet, I don't think most Trump supporters want to be aligned with these [[yet, I caught live news coverage at a North Carolina, and one can hear Trump shouting at the top of his lungs in the background of the reporter, and he sounds an awful lot like Hitler did.).

Second, Mateen's ex-wife is mentioned saying he wasn't very religioushttp://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-m...ive-terrorism/. Yet, she [[who goes by the name "Star") is turning this into a matter of his faith conflicting his orientation situation. Difficult to say what prompted what...

Also, the Amarillo shooting is being presented by the media as a disgruntled work place violence situation.http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/amaril...-video-photos/

Finally, the Boko Haram incident in Nigeria is horrific and under reported. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-13809501Yet, this BBC report does make clear that other Muslims are targeted by them. This bloodiness has happened for years between factions of Jews against Jews [[and God forbid you be labeled as a "self-hating Jew") and Christians VS. Christians [[all from 313AD up to the times surrounding the Reformation). It doesn't excuse any of it in this day and age, yet, I agree with Obama about not singling out an entire religion because of garish sweeping generalizations and broad brush strokes.

70 Native Americans were murdered by Christian terrorists at Sand Creek. Wounded Knee was far worse.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Let the tally begin... mans inhumanity to man.

[Zacha341]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...classma/nrfwW/

A gay Muslim terrorist ? I don't think even ISIS will touch that.

[G-DDT]

I'm not thrilled that anything of this event is allowing anyone to push and pad any agenda [[or allowing any to push aside and forget any news items that were occurring in the election prior to it).

Whether you are pro-guns or anti-guns, I'd rather both sides suspend using this event as their drive. I will add, though, to use tactics that Ben Carson was using last year with skewed speculations of "If I was there" or if "these folks had guns on them..." regarding an event is lame and playing on too much uncertainty. One event just prior to this massacre was the vet in Houston who [[without any prior announcement) strategically took up a corner and opened fire on civilians and police wounding some and killing one [[and eventually himself). An armed person there thought he could take him on, but only ended up getting wounded himself; so, that skews the "if someone there were armed" argument.

Video has surfaced of a documentary looking into the hideous BP oil spill a few years back, and it shows Mateen as a guard shrugging off the company as being stupid and careless. Agreeing with him on that would not make one a "conspiracy theorist", and I can assure you I have no desire to take up arms and go on any killing spree.

[coracle]

One solution we could try that will eventually reduce terrorist actions in America is to dramatically cut or stop taking illegals, migrants, refugees etc. from "shit" areas. [[I know Mateen was "American" under the law, but his heritage was Afghani). For those who want diversity, let African, South American and Central American populations intermingle in each other's countries so they can get the diversity they crave without the need to come to America to practice it. Of course it would mean we would have to make do with less diversity, but I'm ready to suffer that loss for greater safety. Oh! and I would outlaw, ban and confiscate ALL WEAPONS that fired over 6 projectiles without reloading. [[Oh, and ban ALL Drones) [[Oh! and while I'm on a roll, ban ALL Democrats - that might come under drones anyway). That's got that sorted! [[Oh! I nearly forgot; dump UN, for maximum effect)

[lpg]

One solution we could try that will eventually reduce terrorist actions in America is to dramatically cut or stop taking illegals, migrants, refugees etc. from "shit" areas. [[I know Mateen was "American" under the law, but his heritage was Afghani). For those who want diversity, let African, South American and Central American populations intermingle in each other's countries so they can get the diversity they crave without the need to come to America to practice it. Of course it would mean we would have to make do with less diversity, but I'm ready to suffer that loss for greater safety. Oh! and I would outlaw, ban and confiscate ALL WEAPONS that fired over 6 projectiles without reloading. [[Oh, and ban ALL Drones) [[Oh! and while I'm on a roll, ban ALL Democrats - that might come under drones anyway). That's got that sorted! [[Oh! I nearly forgot; dump UN, for maximum effect)

And what are your plans for next week ???

[coracle]

And what are your plans for next week ???

Well if I can get all that accomplished in six days, on the seventh day I'm going to take a rest and call it Sunday.

[oladub]

"Robbie Abell, co-owner of Lotus Gunworks, said Thursday his workers had a gut feeling about Mateen when he came to the store four or five weeks ago.

Mateen asked for level 3 body armor, according to Abell, but was told the store didn't carry it. He then made a phone call and spoke in Arabic before asking for bulk ammunition, but employees did not sell it to him.
Abell told reporters "we contacted FBI direct" after Mateen left the store but he did not elaborate on how investigators responded. He believed his employees did what they should have done, Abell said." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-...t-omar-mateen/

The FBI denies this was called in or at least that they had records that it was called in. Why would this guy make up this story?

Rainbow 'shoot back' flag showing up in west Hollywood.

Other tidbits: Omar was married twice but it isn't clear if he was still living with his most recent wife. He did text her during the attack though. I did read that Omar's mother or wife disappeared but I couldn't confirm that elsewhere. Omar's first marriage was a green card marriage with an Uzbek. IF the FBI didn't follow up and Omar's mom or wife escaped, having more gun control laws like Chicago or Washington, DC isn't promising. Which reminds me of the non-Muslim who killed a British MP today with a gun. He was a gardener with mental problems but seems to have evaded British gun laws.

Does anyone know the history of Omar's parents immigration status? Senator Sessions has been complaining that the Obama administration is refusing to divulge information. We do know they arrived during the Reagan administration.They live in such a nice opulent house and his dad made visits to Hillary's State Department as befits his status. I wonder what their source of income was and why Omar wasn't upwardly mobile.

It's too bad that Hillary' State Department and the DHS scrubbed records that might have been helpful in arresting Omar before his attack. DHS ordered me to scrub records of Muslims with terror ties

[Pam]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ghtclub-attack

The Central Intelligence Agency chief has not been “able to uncover any link” between Orlando killer Omar Mateen and the Islamic State, despite Mateen’s stated allegiance to the jihadist group during Sunday’s LGBT nightclub massacre

Reinforcing four days of internal government assessments across multiple agencies and a Federal Bureau of Investigation inquiry, the CIA director, John Brennan, contrasted “lone wolf” killers in Orlando and San Bernardino last December with recent terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, which he told the Senate intelligence committee were “directed” by Isis leadership in Syria and Iraq

[coracle]

I don't understand the need to "link" Mateen to ISIS. He was Muslim and ISIS is Muslim and all the terror attacks against the West have been perpetrated by Muslims, and there has been zero attempts by Muslms to stop the terror attacks - they smugly applaud them. Ergo the enemy is Muslims. It's like only attacking the Nazis in WWII as a separate entity from the [[moderate) Germans harboring them. If we had done that we'd still be fighting WWII today - and losing, like we've "lost" every encounter since because UN won't allow us to win; they want us to be "third world" like everybody else. [[UN is something like 90% third world. Wonder how many Muslims Ban Ki Moon has sent to S. Korea?)

[Johnnny5]

I don't understand the need to "link" Mateen to ISIS. He was Muslim and ISIS is Muslim and all the terror attacks against the West have been perpetrated by Muslims, and there has been zero attempts by Muslms to stop the terror attacks - they smugly applaud them. Ergo the enemy is Muslims.

The enemy is not Islam, but these terrorists are Muslim and they are invoking their religion while committing these crimes, so the two are linked whether it's PC to admit it or not.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims in this country are law abiding and peaceful and it's unfair to the many that are innocent to be treated poorly because of the actions of a few. That said, IMO the safety of United States citizens should override any desire for "fairness" in our immigration policies. Because of that, I agree with Donald Trump that the resettlement of most Muslims into the U.S should be halted until we can better assure that their entry does not pose a threat. There's no inalienable right to come to this country, and the rights and well being of Americans need to be put above the wants and desires of others when enforcing immigration laws.

[Richard]

He might have been a terrorist wannabe, or claimed that as an excuse. But if he was born here and acted alone and not as part of a group, then his claim is irrelevant. The anti gay or personal rejection motive is the real motive. The media likes to run with the "radical Islam" theme to whip up hysteria. I never said it doesn't exist, I just don't think it fits this guy.

I agree with you on this,there is another club down the street from that one called the Parliament House.

It is a motel with several nightclubs inside 5 times the size of Pulse,considering one wanted to do massive collateral damage, and that one could be considered a den of whatever that by far supersedes Pulse night club.

I would seem like this was more of a jilted vendetta,if he was a terrorist why go in there with a gun [[non assault weapon),he could have just as easily put on a vest and leveled the whole building,if he was connected he would have had excess.

It happens all of the time,somebody in the bar gets pissed off goes outside and comes back with a weapon,has been happening forever.

The thing that bothers me is even though it is a travesty is has been made into a attack on the LGBT community as a stand alone group and the victims have become martyrs of sort.

It has nothing to do with as a country,49 fellow Americans were killed in a senseless attack,but a separate group within the country.

When the Paris attacks happened the entire US supported the country,I would think that it does not matter race,color,creed,or sexual preference lives were taken,this happens and Paris lights up the tower in the rainbow colors as a show of solidarity.

It shows that certain groups within the country wish to be acknowledged [[by passing laws) and be treated equally but yet still stay divided from the rest of the country.

His father propagates in his weekly pod casts hate for America and the christian way,but yet hides in the US under the freedom of speech,I think it would be safe to say he had a negative influence during the upbringing of his son.His ass should have been given a one way ticket back to his home country of Afghanistan years ago.

United we stand divided we fall.

[oladub]

A Muslim fellow, a member of Omar's mosque, did get ahold of the FBI to warn them about Omar's activities and threats. That's part of why the FBI investigated Omar. This Muslim fellow proved that Trump was partly wrong. There are Muslims actively trying to head these things off. However, Omar's father was pro Taliban, Omar sold his house to his brother in law for $10 with a quit claim deed just prior to his event. Omar's second wife Noor seems to have know about his intentions, might have helped Omar case Disney World, and had to sign off on the quit claim deed with her husband. The score then seems to be at least three Muslims kept their mouths shut and at least one Muslim tried to head off violence making Trump more right than wrong and strengthening his call for a temporary suspension of Muslim immigration.

In the middle of an investigation in which Noor might have been charged as an accessory, the FBI seems to have lost her. If true, this is a huge and very suppressed story. We've already seen how the Justice Department tried to censor the transcript of Omar's phone calls so this shouldn't be a surprise. It's just difficult to imagine the FBI losing its prime suspect in the middle of the biggest crime investigation in the country and the press being such an accessory to the Obama narrative. I still haven't heard the history of Omar's parents immigration and if they are still Afghan citizens. Omar's friend said he was a Hillary supporter.


AG LYNCH ADMITS THE FBI HAS LOST TRACK OF OMAR MATEEN’S WIFE
‘I believe she was going to travel but I do not know exactly her location now’

[Richard]

Maybe she went to Gitmo on vacation for a much needed rest.

I find it hard to believe that in light of everything,she was not under 24/7 surveillance,they just want everybody to think she is in hiding,protective custody maybe.

[Zacha341]

Perhaps the Attorney General can find her....

[lpg]

Perhaps the Attorney General can find her....

I doubt if she could find her toes..

[Zacha341]

Yeah, but she seems to be adapt at attempting to sculpt a narrative.

[Honky Tonk]

There was an interesting interview on NPR this morning, I thought I'd share.....

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/22/483046...lando-shooting

[Jimaz]

Attachment 30787
Democrats Stage Sit-In Protest In Congress

Congressman John Lewis staged a sit-in protest on the floor of congress. The congressional Democrats want to vote on a bill to restrict suspects on the terrorist watch list from buying firearms. Cenk Uygur, host of The Young Turks, breaks it down....

“Georgia congressman John Lewis deployed a strategy from his days as a civil rights activist and coupled it with social media to stage a dramatic sit-in Wednesday on the House floor with his fellow Democrats to force a vote on gun control.

"Sometimes you have to do something out of the ordinary, sometimes you have to make a way out of no way," said Lewis, one of the last living icons of the civil rights movement. "There comes a time when you have to say something, when you have to make a little noise, when you have to move your feet. This is the time. Now is the time to get in the way. The time to act is now. We will be silent no more."

Lewis and roughly 40 fellow House Democrats began by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as a couple dozen visitors in the gallery looked on and vowing "to occupy the floor of the House until there is action."

Other Democrats began chanting: "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!" and "No bill, no break!"

[oladub]

Congressman John Lewis staged a sit-in protest on the floor of congress. The congressional Democrats want to vote on a bill to restrict suspects on the terrorist watch list from buying firearms.

If this Democratic Party kumbaya moment resembling a yucky jail and bail fundraiser has something to do with the self-professed Islamic terrorist in Orlando, it should be remembered that Omar Mateen was not on a terrorist watch list or no-fly list when he legally bought firearms. The FBI could find no reason to arrest Omar based on his record and tips from a fellow mosque member and one gun shop owner who refused to sell products to Omar. Meanwhile, Chicago which had 13 homicides last weekend, and Washington, DC's gun homicide rate is much higher than that of any state both have gun control laws far beyond whatever Senate Democrats hope to pass. Islamic terrorists also use bombs and would not be significantly affected by Chicago/Washington, DC like gun regulations that don't work well. Democrats should get off their butts and ask about what factors allowed Omar's wife, and prime suspect, to slip away and disappear in the middle of the biggest FBI investigation in the Country.

Baffled Americans would be more impressed if members of Congress would turn over portions of their lavish pensions to the needy than seeing them sitting on the floor making fools of themselves in $600 suits.

Also ignored- U.S. Homicide Rate Hits 51-year Low as Gun Ownership Increased 141%