Little Caesars Arena

[401don]

Off topic but I wonder how the family business will be transferred to the children when the time comes. It is now a very large, growing, privately-held, multi-national company with several divisions. There are, I believe, 7 children, with only Chris involved with the family business. Lots of accountants working overtime on this one.

[bust]

The Pizzarena

I cannot reply with a simple +1, so this +++++++1!

[G-DDT]

More dispatches from the "Field of Schemes" playbook.

I don't like it either.

I was shocked when I came back to Louisville to see they had a "JFC Yum! Center" [[and the fact that almost all of the community kitchens started serving that MSG-loaded crud that passes for chicken at their lunches), and R.I.'s Dunkin Donuts made me snuff in contempt.

When do we win on this here?-When we name something after some old robber-baron fart noone remembers, like in the old days? Or should it be when it's more selflessly objective in it's naming?

Yet, slapping a cheeeesey corporate logo abd name onto some huge infrastructure we all share....it just seems so....Nascar.

Oh and yes, I never wanted to lose Briggs stadium to Comerica, and I'm such a stubborn such-and-such that I've never even set foot in the new stadium once, so far.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Dropping my vote in the "name is lame" hat...

Our largest downtown employer also owns an arena in Ohio. It's branding bears the company's full name, but the arena's name is called the Q. No one there seems to mind, so maybe the lesson to be taken from that is simple is better.

Why don't we all vote on a better name? Have the local news media host online polls and narrow the list down to the top names, and ask the Illiches to consider the public's proposals. That gesture would go a lot farther than his shitty cardboard pizza that costs over 20 bucks at the game. We chipped in over $285M in taxes to build this, why shouldn't we be allowed some input?

And what is up with the LED roof bait and switch? You mean our 285M won't have to cover any costs for that failed part of the deal? What state-of-the-art roof are we getting instead?


I'm still calling the area the Corridor, they can call it whatever repugnant name they want.

[Scottathew]

The Pizzarena

This! Yes!

[detroitsgwenivere]

The Pizzarena

Yeah I like this too

[G-DDT]

I'm still calling the area the Corridor, they can call it whatever repugnant name they want.

I, too, call it the Cass Corridor just as I knew it when I lived in it.

[G-DDT]

Yeah I like this too

Correction: Pizzarena! Pizzarena!

[Lowell]

Off topic but I wonder how the family business will be transferred to the children when the time comes. It is now a very large, growing, privately-held, multi-national company with several divisions. There are, I believe, 7 children, with only Chris involved with the family business. Lots of accountants working overtime on this one.

Now that's what I call a good problem to have.

[BasementBeat]

I Really hope that image of the Little Ceasers logo on the roof is just a spoof. The Red Wings logo in bright lights is what got many people excited about this project.

Boise: Taco Bell Arena
Louisville: KFC Yum! Center 4th largest arena in US, 22,600 seats
Providence RI: Dunkin Donuts Center [[which has me thinking about Tim Bits)
Fresno CA: Save Mart Center

Woof.
Little Ceasers Arena doesn't sound bad at all compared to those. I give my condolences to Louisville.

[G-DDT]

Off topic but I wonder how the family business will be transferred to the children when the time comes.

Well, you kind of answered that question on another recent thread: "Maybe they could just meet in the alley and have a fight with clubs and knives. How's 11:00 after the kids are in bed?"

As you all can tell, I'm not taking any of this seriously.
Except for Louisville....all eyes will be on Louisville for those exciting two minutes of sports real soon.

[Junjie]

By far the most obvious outcome. And I don't care if there is no LED roof. What tiny percentage of people would have even been able to have seen that?

I think people cared about this not because a few people in Detroit would have seen it but because millions of people would have seen it on TV every time they played a national game. The blimp shots from midtown to downtown, with an illuminated arena and then downtown behind, would have been pretty glorious.

I care much more whether they follow through with residences, a hotel, and retail in the vicinity. That they create a good neighborhood [[as promised), not a hockeyland that serves only hockey fans a few dozen nights a year. And sorry to say, but were I to guess: a few residences - yes, a hotel - perhaps, lotsa parking - of course, and bars and [[minimal) retail that cater to the hockey crowd, but a thriving neighborhood even for those not attending the game -- I doubt it. I'm still skeptical but much more optimistic about the potential MLS stadium, based entirely on the past performance of the individuals involved.

Agreed on all this, especially since we are now starting off with this roof bait-and-switch on the arena itself. If they actually build their new headquarters building across from Comerica, a hotel next to the arena, and renovate the Eddystone I'll consider it a success.

[Bham1982]

Is it safe to assume that this is the first of many concessions we should expect? If the LED roof [[which seemed like a pretty defining characteristic of the plan) was just meant to be extra glitz for the renderings, I'd imagine that there are plenty of other aspects of the plan that will be dismissed in the same manner.

Illitch did the exact same thing with Comerica Park. Many of the promised amenities were never completed, the promised surrounding buildings were never built, the streetscaping was discarded and the facade and materials were value-engineered over time.

At least thank the Fords for the football stadium being built exactly as announced, alongside ancillary development. They don't know football, but at least they didn't cheap out and kept their promises.

It's like Linus and Lucy with the football. You'll get your Pizza Pizza park, with $300 million in taxpayer subsidies, and that's it. Count yourself lucky if the damn thing opens on time and doesn't turn every piece of property with a half-mile into a surface parking lot. You're dreaming if you think this will create some "new urban district" or whatnot. It's 40 hockey games a year, a few concerts, and lots of parking agita.

It's JLA, but newer and a mile north. Nothing more or less.

[Bham1982]

Or Barclay's. A bank that has no branches in the US.

Barclays has a major presence in the U.S. especially in terms of trading and investment banking.

Bank branches are almost irrelevent to bulge bracket investment banking revenue. It would be like saying Little Caesars doesn't even sell sushi rolls. The most important bank in the U.S., and the world, is Goldman Sachs, which has never had a retail branch.

[bibs]

Deep Dish or Deep Dish Arena for sure!

[Bigb23]

How about the LC Arena or LCA for short ? If there are any uninformed attendee's wondering about the name, they could whip out their cell phones to find out, and get bombarded with pizza commercials.

Win-win for all of us !
And skip the awful cartoon logo on the roof, what would alien UFO's think of it ?

[jackie5275]

I am irate, and the social media reactions are quite bad. LC is an inferior fast food product like Taco Bell or McDs, and you do not see arenas named after such chains. This reflects poorly on Detroit and the franchise and I hope they change it.

So should it be Little Sleazer's Arena?

[Wesley Mouch]

Illitch did the exact same thing with Comerica Park. Many of the promised amenities were never completed, the promised surrounding buildings were never built, the streetscaping was discarded and the facade and materials were value-engineered over time.
...
It's like Linus and Lucy with the football. ...

It's JLA, but newer and a mile north. Nothing more or less.

Sure. True. But not at all unusual.

Just how many jobs was the new Poletown plant supposed to provide? Answer: About 3 times the plant's worker-count. Why? Because that number was needed to make the public argument about spending per various laws. Both public and private lie to make their cases.

[Zacha341]

What a stupid name. I guess they can't just call it Caesars due to competition of that name across the river, ala Windsors casino.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

While opinions, by definition, have no truth value, all the opinions about this topic have validity and are rooted, for the most part anyway, in civic pride. I think a couple of years from now all the hoopla over the name the arena will have gone away. And we will collectively be more concerned with the performance of the Wings, and how the ongoing rebirth and growth of Detroit is progressing. #LGRW

[Hypestyles]

why does the logo look the way that it looks? What is the rationale in the design?

[downtownguy]

Call it "The Public Arena" to reflect the $250 million of taxpayer money that went to build it.

[Honky Tonk]

Call it "The Public Arena" to reflect the $250 million of taxpayer money that went to build it.

Actually, closer to 5 million. But what's a few million here or there.

[Bham1982]

How did $300 million in taxpayer subsidies become $5 million? Is this more "make up the numbers" downtown subsidy spin?

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/0...ore-than-300m/

John Oliver had a great piece on this taxpayer boondoggle late last year. Of course Illitch replied with correlation/causation fail nonsense about "spinoff effects" as if people will eat lunch, drive cars or work in jobs based on whether or not a hockey arena is built.

[bust]

The details of the financing of the arena financing are complicated and hard to understand. But supporters of the arena tend to minimize the public investment, and dream big about its potential benefits. Let's stick to the facts.

The arena was financed by $450M in bonds. Olympia will pay back $200M. Detroit's Downtown Development Authority [[DDA), run by the Detroit Economic Growth Corp [[DEGC), will pay back the remaining $250M. Crain's explains:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...re-are-answers

This article from the Metro Times provides more detail, including an important bit how if Olympia invests or "causes to invest" at least $200M around the arena within 5 years after it opens, the DDA will credit Olympia up to an additional $74M:

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...ed-wings-arena

An earlier article put the credit at $62M, not $74M. I'm not sure why there's a discrepancy:

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/ol...nt?oid=2144114

I'm also not sure if Wayne State's new Ilitch School of Business will count toward that $200M. If so it would provide a clearer picture why it will be located next to the arena, off campus.

According to the article referenced by Bham, the city has also sold Olympia publicly owned properties for $1. Several blocks of public streets were donated too. I'm not sure how to value it, but that amounts to a taxpayer subsidy too.

If it ends there, the overall taxpayer subsidy for the arena would seem to be $250M, up to $324M, plus the donated land. But is that where it ends?

I was encouraged by something in the first Metro Times article referenced above:

"...the $200 million in private investment [Olympia invests or causes to invest] could include everything from planned housing and retail developments, to 'tens of millions' of dollars in infrastructure upgrades [Olympia] says it has committed to spend for landscaping improvements, street upgrades, and new streetlights."

Improved public infrastructure will be needed for the arena and it seems Olympia may pick up at least part of the cost. I expect it will be more than their idea to widen Temple to ease customers to their casino.

But that's not a complete picture. What's the full list of necessary infrastructure improvements [[electrical, water, sewers, lighting, roads...), and who will pay for them? Any city, county, state, or federal funds for these expenses should fairly be considered indirect taxpayer subsidies too.

I'm also interested where the money the DDA will use to repay their share of the bonds comes from. This part gets murky for me. The Crain's article [[above) explains the DDA is supported by property taxes levied within its district, and that they would otherwise go to the city's general fund, Detroit Public Schools, Wayne County, Huron Clinton Metropolitan Authority, Wayne County Intermediate School District, Wayne County Community College District, and the state. With so many erstwhile recipients of this property tax revenue, I'm not sure why the discussion seems to always center on the diversion of state school funds.

State Rep. Rose Mary Robinson, unhappy with the arrangement, asked Attorney General Schuette whether it violates a provision of the state constitution that mandates money from the State School Aid Fund be used for schools. He determined it's constitutional, since the money is diverted before it gets there:

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...ed-wings-arena

Bob Rossbach, spokesman for the DDA, said the diversion of these funds will not impact schools because the state will replenish the lost revenue for schools with money from elsewhere:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-03/detroit-billionaires-get-hockey-arena-as-bankrupt-city-suffers

In 2014, a cap that limited the state school taxes the DDA could divert was lifted. It's estimated it will amount to about $15M per year or more. The DDA was also approved to engage in a risky financial bet known as an interest rate swap. The Metro Times reports a bad bet on an interest rate swap cost the Detroit Water & Sewerage Department $571 million in 2012:

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/fi...nt?oid=2249280

All this included, does that make the taxpayer subsidy $250M, up to $324M, plus the donated land, plus possible infrastructure improvements, plus interest rate swap risk? Is there anything I missed?

And as an aside, Olympia estimates the new arena will have a lifespan of of 48 years:

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/re...nt?oid=2202739

That could happen. 9 MLB and NFL stadia are older. But the average lifespan of an arena today seems less. The Joe was built 37 years ago. Madison Square Garden is the oldest in the NHL and turned 48 this year. Only the NBA's Oracle Arena in Oakland is older, at 50. With amenities and technology changing at an accelerating pace arena lifespans aren't likely to increase. Then there's the possibility a suburb or other city will some day make an offer the Red Wings can't refuse. It'd be a travesty, but wouldn't Pontiac love an NHL team? Or Windsor? Seattle sure would.

Olympia has options to renew their lease on the arena for up to 95 years. But is there any requirement the team stays? If so, until when?

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/ho...nt?oid=2201553

Remember how in 1995 St. Louis enticed the Los Angeles Rams to relocate with a new stadium built entirely with taxpayer money? The Rams are back in LA, but St. Louis will continue paying for the stadium until 2022:

http://www.insidesources.com/nfl-sub...e-los-angeles/

Its easy for conversations about financing new arenas and their potential economic impact to become clouded by distortions, misconceptions, and wishful thinking. Let's cut through and chase down the facts. They're tedious to uncover and many of the details are a chore to understand, but they matter a lot. The Red Wings arena may be a done deal, but its execution has just begun. The most optimistic projections may never materialize, but there are still ways to influence the result. And whatever happens, there will be other public-private ventures, and more opportunities to get things right.