"Pure Michigan" campaign, state image damaged by Flint. A pivot toward Detroit?

**EastsideAl** · April-11-16, 11:52 AM

I don't think people here realize what a potential draw Detroit is for international tourists. When I'm overseas and people find out I'm from Michigan I'm always asked about Detroit and Motown, soul/rock music history, African-American culture and food, historic cars and auto factories, and, yes, photogenic ruins. I've never once been asked about the glories of our forests or Lake Huron.

Many people outside the U.S. are fascinated by Detroit, and especially our musical and automotive histories. The main thing they wonder is if it would be safe to visit here. I'm told by people I know in the hotel and restaurant business here that the the number of international visitors has been consistently rising. It should be kept in mind too that most of them have substantially more vacation time than we do to make the trip, and are much more likely to engage in international travel than most Americans.

I'm reminded sometimes here of the huge struggle that Esther Gordy Edwards had in getting the Motown Museum up and running. A lot of people around the Detroit area and Michigan just couldn't understand what the big deal was about a lot of old records of singing black kids that would possibly draw anyone to "scary" W. Grand Blvd. So they struggled for years to obtain enough funding to get the place going and keep it open. Now it's one of our biggest attractions, and probably the biggest attraction for our international tourist visitors. Almost always when we have guests from overseas, it's the first place they want to go.

**Bham1982** · April-11-16, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I don't think people here realize what a potential draw Detroit is for international tourists. When I'm overseas and people find out I'm from Michigan I'm always asked about Detroit and Motown, soul/rock music history, African-American culture and food, historic cars and auto factories, and, yes, photogenic ruins. I've never once been asked about the glories of our forests or Lake Huron.

Visitors to Michigan are overwhelmingly domestic. I'm highly skeptical that non-Americans are unusually fascinated by Detroit compared to other cities, but if it's true, they don't actually follow through and visit.

**Gistok** · April-11-16, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

Sorry but that's my opinion. They can try to make Michigan a tourist destination without focusing on water but it's very unlikely to work and if they do it will be a mistake. You may love it but that doesn't mean others do. Do you really think large numbers of people are going to burn vacation days to visit Detroit? Do you want to burn vacation days to visit Kansas City or Cleveland....or St Louis? Yeah me neither. Take off your homer glasses and really look around....our Lakes [[mainly north and west) are a world class draw but unfortunately cities like Detroit are simply below average and won't be a significant tourist draw.

What the heck are you talking about?? In my link they don't even mention Detroit... just other pursuits... such as biking or golf or other leisure activities not involving going into water??

Did you LOOK at the link??

**dtowncitylover** · April-11-16, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Visitors to Michigan are overwhelmingly domestic. I'm highly skeptical that non-Americans are unusually fascinated by Detroit compared to other cities, but if it's true, they don't actually follow through and visit.

I will say this, many foreigners who come here are business travelers who become tourists because they did not realize how interesting and engaging Detroit is. I give tours and just last week gave a tour to 4 Slovenes who were here on business and wanted a tour of downtown. But we do have a lot of foreigners who live in Chicago or Toronto who come to Detroit as well for a visit because they're interested.

**Bham1982** · April-11-16, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I will say this, many foreigners who come here are business travelers who become tourists because they did not realize how interesting and engaging Detroit is. I give tours and just last week gave a tour to 4 Slovenes who were here on business and wanted a tour of downtown. But we do have a lot of foreigners who live in Chicago or Toronto who come to Detroit as well for a visit because they're interested.

There is stuff to see in Detroit, of course, but the city was never a tourist hub, and will likely never be a tourist hub. It was an early 20th century boomtown, built for efficiency around industry.

From a tourist perspective, there is nothing that particularly distinguishes Detroit from the other major Rust Belt cities. They pretty much all have a world class art museum, a respectable symphony, a nice assortment of prewar highrises, a musical heritage, an industrial heritage, black history, parks, water, a few local quirks, etc. Tourists aren't going to be stampeding to Cleveland or Detroit-type cities.

**TTime** · April-11-16, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

What the heck are you talking about?? In my link they don't even mention Detroit... just other pursuits... such as biking or golf or other leisure activities not involving going into water??

Did you LOOK at the link??

Yes. You said my take was BS and I defended it. Not sure what you're so worked up about and the last time I checked you can go for a bike ride in Kansas. Sorry not sure what our disconnect is here but I was simply defending my stance that you called BS. I would push our access to water, not our bike paths and definitely not cities that won't make for a great vacation and to the guy that said people all around the world are interested in Detroit I would agree but I would say the same about Manchester or Chernobyl but just because those places peak my interest that doesn't mean I have them high on my list of vacation destinations.

**EastsideAl** · April-11-16, 01:44 PM

Detroit has 2 truly unique attractions: Motown [[and other soul and jazz related music locations), and the auto industry/cars. The Motown Museum and The Henry Ford [[Museum) both do well with foreign visitors, as does the Rouge factory tour. And the Detroit Historical Museum could attract more if its car collection was better known and more fully shown. All of these things could do better with tourists if better advertised to a wider audience. Which is where our government tourism people should come in.

The 3rd unique attraction Detroit has to outsiders, particularly ones from overseas, which is sadly known to all of us, is its 20th century ruins. Pretty much every person I've talked to overseas about Detroit has at least brought up Michigan Central. And many people I've hosted from other countries, either as part of my business or personally, has wanted to take pictures of it and of Packard, and other distressed or abandoned buildings or areas. Graffiti, like that along the Dequindre Cut, is also quite popular.

The main reservations people have about visiting Detroit are the perception that it's not safe, the difficulties of public transportation and the lack of easily found transit information, the lack of easily available tourist information on the subjects and sites they're interested in, and a dearth of decent safe places to stay at budget-friendly prices. But the potential is definitely there, and we do have some events already that attract foreigners to Detroit [[most notably Movement and the Jazz Festival).

**dtowncitylover** · April-11-16, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

There is stuff to see in Detroit, of course, but the city was never a tourist hub, and will likely never be a tourist hub. It was an early 20th century boomtown, built for efficiency around industry.

From a tourist perspective, there is nothing that particularly distinguishes Detroit from the other major Rust Belt cities. They pretty much all have a world class art museum, a respectable symphony, a nice assortment of prewar highrises, a musical heritage, an industrial heritage, black history, parks, water, a few local quirks, etc. Tourists aren't going to be stampeding to Cleveland or Detroit-type cities.

In the early 20th century, most cities weren't tourist hubs, except for maybe New York. Las Vegas and modern LA weren't even alive yet.

I love how you say nothing particular distinguishes Detroit and then gave a list of things that distinguishes us. For as blue collar as we are, we have a great art museum that rivals any big city museum, we do indeed have one of the best art deco skyscraper collections in the US, we have Belle Isle, we have a wonderful Riverwalk, we have Motown Museum [[which IMO will be helped my M-1 Rail so that visitors downtown can now get up to the New Center and visit w/o a car or cab).

No we're not Times Square or Hollywood and Highland, but to say we have nothing to offer is ridiculous. We have niche markets we need to pivot to. We can't cater to foreign tourists wanting to buy Louis Vittons, we need to cater to intellectual tourists who want to learn, and there's nothing wrong with that.

**Bham1982** · April-11-16, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

I love how you say nothing particular distinguishes Detroit and then gave a list of things that distinguishes us. For as blue collar as we are, we have a great art museum that rivals any big city museum, we do indeed have one of the best art deco skyscraper collections in the US, we have Belle Isle, we have a wonderful Riverwalk, we have Motown Museum [[which IMO will be helped my M-1 Rail so that visitors downtown can now get up to the New Center and visit w/o a car or cab).

What makes any of this particularly unique, or worth flying from Europe at $1,200 a plane ticket? How is this different from, say, Cleveland?

We have the Motown Museum, they have the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. We have the DIA, they have the CMA. They have factory districts and riverwalks and parks and light rail and cool old buildings too. They even have Dan Gilbert.

**dtowncitylover** · April-11-16, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

What makes any of this particularly unique, or worth flying from Europe at $1,200 a plane ticket? How is this different from, say, Cleveland?

We have the Motown Museum, they have the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. We have the DIA, they have the CMA. They have factory districts and riverwalks and parks and light rail and cool old buildings too. They even have Dan Gilbert.

Because they know Detroit over Cleveland. Detroit is hell of a lot more well known than Cleveland. I'm sure people who don't know are surprised to hear that the R&RHOF is even in Cleveland. They want to know more about Detroit because they've heard more about its demise than Cleveland.

Detroit is definitely no more worth a $1200 ticket from Europe than Cleveland is, but as I've said before most aren't here to specifically see Detroit. They're here for Chicago, NY, etc or they're here on business and are exploring outside their conference/convention/working hours.

**bust** · April-11-16, 02:18 PM

I've traveled a bit and I know a lot of foreigners. Even married one. And it's common for certain types to tell me how much they want to visit Detroit. Some are interested in its architecture and urban planning, others are into its music, some are intrigued by its industry, and [[regrettably) more than a few are astonished by its spectacular economic collapse. And many of them have in fact followed through. One did her Masters thesis in urban planning about Detroit. An architect from London tells me Detroit is his favorite city [[for academic, not touristic reasons). Several have attended the Movement festival. But I haven't met any who haven't visited at least one of the more typical tourist cities first.

Detroit can't compete with New York's shopping, Miami's beaches, LA's glamour, nor San Francisco's charm -- and those are the sorts of things typical tourists want. No one cares about its casinos. And every other major city has restaurants and sports teams too. Where Detroit has an opportunity is attracting more unconventional tourists interested in the rich architectural, musical, industrial, cultural, and economic past and present unique to the place.

Meanwhile it's too bad how many Detroiters seem to under-appreciate these very same things.

**dtowncitylover** · April-11-16, 02:36 PM

And can I just raise the point of time? Unless you believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ and it's going to happen extremely soon, why is it that Detroit will never be something? Detroit has been around for only 300 years. Rome and Athens have been around for over 2500 years. Cairo for even more. The city isn't going anywhere. It took 50 years to nearly destroy it, how about rebuilding it so that by 2050 it's a regular, industrious, active city again? And in its entirety of history it may amount a drop in the bucket.

**jcole** · April-11-16, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

...Do you want to burn vacation days to visit Kansas City or Cleveland....or St Louis? Yeah me neither. ...

Ummm, yes. Have you ever visited those places?

**Bham1982** · April-11-16, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Ummm, yes. Have you ever visited those places?

Most people aren't going to want to vacation in Kansas City. I get that DYes isn't a representative sample of the public, but still, this should be kind of obvious.

Does your Aunt Mary winter in Naples or in Kansas?

**TTime** · April-11-16, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Ummm, yes. Have you ever visited those places?

Yes I have visited all 3 either for work or driving through but unfortunately there are other cities that will be the beneficiary of my tourism dollars. Thank you for proving my point though as these cities are ok but let's face it no one wants to spend their vacation somewhere that is just ok.

**Gistok** · April-11-16, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by TTime

Yes. You said my take was BS and I defended it. Not sure what you're so worked up about and the last time I checked you can go for a bike ride in Kansas. Sorry not sure what our disconnect is here but I was simply defending my stance that you called BS. I would push our access to water, not our bike paths and definitely not cities that won't make for a great vacation and to the guy that said people all around the world are interested in Detroit I would agree but I would say the same about Manchester or Chernobyl but just because those places peak my interest that doesn't mean I have them high on my list of vacation destinations.

TTime.... my apology... that reply wasn't intended for you... I got distracted and replied to the wrong person/post.... sorry.

**TTime** · April-11-16, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

TTime.... my apology... that reply wasn't intended for you... I got distracted and replied to the wrong person/post.... sorry.

No problem at all, all good plus sometimes I deserve it

**archfan** · April-12-16, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

There is stuff to see in Detroit, of course, but the city was never a tourist hub, and will likely never be a tourist hub. It was an early 20th century boomtown, built for efficiency around industry.
...

Well, not never:

"...by 1916 Detroit was considered the number one destination for conventions by the National Tourist Board"

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...tory/73514852/

By the 1920s, of course, the attraction for conventions may have been the easy availability of alcohol. During Prohibition, "“it was absolutely impossible to get a drink in Detroit unless you walked at least 10 feet and told the busy bartender what you wanted in a voice loud enough for him to hear you above the uproar.” - Malcolm Bingay

**jcole** · April-12-16, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by TTime

Yes I have visited all 3 either for work or driving through but unfortunately there are other cities that will be the beneficiary of my tourism dollars. Thank you for proving my point though as these cities are ok but let's face it no one wants to spend their vacation somewhere that is just ok.

You misunderstand; I would burn vaca to stay in those places. I HAVE burned vaca to stay in two of them. St Louis has one of the most iconic monuments in America, and both St Louis and Kansas City are beautiful cities with tons of places to get Q and are central to many other places to visit. St. Charles, MO is a lovely town within driving distance of St Louis and you can travel the Mississippi from there. I haven't been to Cleveland in years but I hear the restaurant scene is pretty damned good and you have Lake Erie, the Rock and Roll HOF and aren't far from Cedar Point.

**canuck** · April-12-16, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

And can I just raise the point of time? Unless you believe in the second coming of Jesus Christ and it's going to happen extremely soon, why is it that Detroit will never be something? Detroit has been around for only 300 years. Rome and Athens have been around for over 2500 years. Cairo for even more. The city isn't going anywhere. It took 50 years to nearly destroy it, how about rebuilding it so that by 2050 it's a regular, industrious, active city again? And in its entirety of history it may amount a drop in the bucket.

Abso--lewdly. Detroit has a lot going for it being in a wealthy temperate region of the richest country on earth.

**Bham1982** · April-12-16, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Abso--lewdly. Detroit has a lot going for it being in a wealthy temperate region

Wealthy and temperate? Detroit is now Manhattan paired with San Diego?

I guess it's all relative....

**canuck** · April-12-16, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Wealthy and temperate? Detroit is now Manhattan paired with San Diego?

I guess it's all relative....

Well' I guess you're right about that, Michigan's household incomes statewide are lower than the US median. Detroit's metro is where the high incomes are though, and it still packs a punch. The divide that exists is where we will have to be creative for our* metropolitan area to renasce according to old Father Richard's premonition.

*humbly speaking from your self-proclaimed honorary South East Meshugenner.

**detroitsgwenivere** · April-12-16, 07:39 PM

Many people come to visit family and friends in the metro area. I cant count the number of out-of-state folks I've given tours of the city to over the years. And my itinerary includes the war zones...

Houston kinda sucks but I'll be visiting family there for the second time in two years