New parking garage next to Comerica Park sought

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

There are numerous residential units [[new or renovated) downtown and in midtown, all started years ago, that are virtually completely occupied. To say that Illitch could not have successfully followed through on housing because of the big bad economic forces is simply not true. Lots of other folks did it.

[Zads07]

It's incredible the difference of opinion on Ilitch. I can see both sides, but generally, the issue I have with Ilitch, is the demolition and neglect of many of his properties.

[401don]

It's incredible the difference of opinion on Ilitch. I can see both sides, but generally, the issue I have with Ilitch, is the demolition and neglect of many of his properties.

I think most people's problem with Ilitch has been the promising but not delivering. If you buy a building like the Fine Arts, Detroit Life, etc. just be honest and say we are mothballing it until market conditions change and when we have firm plans and a construction start date we will make an announcement. In business, always under promise and over deliver.

[bust]

We cannot predict the future but we can certainly learn from the past. And there is a long history of Ilitch neglect.

Sure, they can suddenly change their ways. But don't be so naive as to expect it. If they can get out of something they don't want to do, they've proven they will. They've broken countless promises.

Just last year, to win their relentless campaign to demolish the Park Ave Hotel, the Ilitches conceded a promise to rehabilitate the Eddystone. But they attempted to avoid a legal commitment to do so. In a rare demonstration of backbone the city council caught that and made the commitment legally binding.

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...a-and-thats-ok

Don't be surprised if some "mishap" somehow makes rehabilitating the Eddystone impossible even still.

Yes, the "arena district" presents yet another opportunity for the Ilitches to pivot and become beneficent corporate citizens in reality instead of just in their marketing materials. I truly hope that happens.

But history suggests we would be remiss to take their pretty promises as anything other than a PR campaign to achieve their true goals. They want another stadium. They want infrastructure to support it. And they want a lot of help building it. Now they want another parking garage.

Their promises are no good any more. At this point they must prove them.

You cannot trust the Ilitches. You're a fool if you do.

I'm not predicting the future. I've learned from the past.

[royce]

Not to thread jack here, but has anyone noticed how elementary Louis Aguilar's articles are? First, why does the title of the article suggest that this new parking garage is being "sought" when previous news print reports have indicated that the building of this parking garage is going to happen? Second, why do most of his articles sound like they are written for an alien being from another planet? Is it necessary for reporters to rehash past events, when talking about current or future events, as if no one has ever heard about those past events? I understand that new readers may not know all of what occurred in the past, but isn't there a way for a reporter to state previously written events or articles in a less elementary way? For example, couldn't the reporter say, "As stated previously by this reporter...," or, "This reporter wrote back in...." I think what bothers me the most about Aguilar's articles is that it just seems like he repeats past information just to beef up his articles. This last paragraph of the article really burns me up, "The Tigers and Red Wings are owned by Mike Ilitch. He and his wife Marian co-founded Little Caesars Pizza. Other holdings include the Fox Theatre, Olympia Entertainment and extensive property near the new arena. The new hockey arena is part of an ambitious plan to overhaul 45 blocks of the city with new residences, offices and retail." Did this information have to go in the article?

BTW, why write this article prior to city council's approval? I don't know, was there a follow up article after Thursday?

[emu steve]

We cannot predict the future but we can certainly learn from the past. And there is a long history of Ilitch neglect.

Sure, they can suddenly change their ways. But don't be so naive as to expect it. If they can get out of something they don't want to do, they've proven they will. They've broken countless promises.

Just last year, to win their relentless campaign to demolish the Park Ave Hotel, the Ilitches conceded a promise to rehabilitate the Eddystone. But they attempted to avoid a legal commitment to do so. In a rare demonstration of backbone the city council caught that and made the commitment legally binding.

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...a-and-thats-ok

Don't be surprised if some "mishap" somehow makes rehabilitating the Eddystone impossible even still.

Yes, the "arena district" presents yet another opportunity for the Ilitches to pivot and become beneficent corporate citizens in reality instead of just in their marketing materials. I truly hope that happens.

But history suggests we would be remiss to take their pretty promises as anything other than a PR campaign to achieve their true goals. They want another stadium. They want infrastructure to support it. And they want a lot of help building it. Now they want another parking garage.

Their promises are no good any more. At this point they must prove them.

You cannot trust the Ilitches. You're a fool if you do.

I'm not predicting the future. I've learned from the past.

I think you are bucking to join Bham1982 in the DetroitYes "Hall of Shame" for prognosticators who were dead wrong.

One of the other exhibits in this "Hall of Shame" will be for those who said M-1 rail wouldn't happen and [[also) said it would be a cho cho to no where and wouldn't lead to any significant development [[conveniently ignoring both Brush Park and the New Center activities are HAPPENING - present tense. Both Brush Park and New Center have very bright development futures).

[michmina]

When the Illitches are involved, I find if I expect that their financial needs will always be served and community benefit just coincidence, I am never disappointed.

[emu steve]

When the Illitches are involved, I find if I expect that their financial needs will always be served and community benefit just coincidence, I am never disappointed.

I don't see the relevance to the subject of this thread [[although I understand the wider debate going on in this thread and others).

As far as this thread is concerned, there will not be any public monies involved.

There will be more covered parking very close to Comerica, Ford Field and the new arena in THIS garage.

So come winter folks can park their cars in a garage rather than on open surface lots.

And mathematically the # of garage spaces > than the number of surface lots replaced.

This is good for ALL!! Rarely do decisions, like this one, benefit all with no obvious losers.

[bust]

I think you are bucking to join Bham1982 in the DetroitYes "Hall of Shame" for prognosticators who were dead wrong...

...We [[Ilitich) can PROVE you wrong next year/2018...

Note I'm not predicting the future; I'm asserting we should receive the Ilitches' pretty promises skeptically, having learned from all the times they've broken their promises in the past.

If a few years from now little more than the arena and its supporting infrastructure is built, it would be fair to call the pretty promises of an "arena district" the "arena distract".

I truly hope they [[you) follow through on all their [[your) promises this time, finally. It's yet another chance.

[emu steve]

Note I'm not predicting the future; I'm asserting we should receive the Ilitches' pretty promises skeptically, having learned from all the times they've broken their promises in the past.

If a few years from now little more than the arena and its supporting infrastructure is built, it would be fair to call the pretty promises of an "arena district" the "arena distract".

I truly hope they [[you) follow through on all their [[your) promises this time, finally. It's yet another chance.

Sorry to disagree with you, but YOU AND I are both predicting the future.

I'm being explicit in my predictions; you implicit.

[southen]

I love the optimism emu but you also need to take into account the reality of what Illitch does when talking about development and predicting the future. You might be developing a "Hall of Shame" but I can't help but roll my eyes at half the pro-Illitch things you trumpet here and I'm an optimist! Come back to the pack a bit and feel free to rub it in all of our faces when Illitch develops the CoPa apartments, HQ, Detroit Life Building, Blenheim, Women's Exchange Building, United Artists, Fine Arts Theater, Eddystone and follows through on the Madison Lenox site. If that happens ill gladly eat crow.

[Bham1982]

I think you are bucking to join Bham1982 in the DetroitYes "Hall of Shame" for prognosticators who were dead wrong.

One of the other exhibits in this "Hall of Shame" will be for those who said M-1 rail wouldn't happen and [[also) said it would be a cho cho to no where and wouldn't lead to any significant development [[conveniently ignoring both Brush Park and the New Center activities are HAPPENING - present tense. Both Brush Park and New Center have very bright development futures).

You are kind of the Donald Trump or PT Barnum of DYes. Reality is irrelevant. Keep on blustering away, I guess.

[southen]

You are kind of the Donald Trump or PT Barnum of DYes. Reality is irrelevant. Keep on blustering away, I guess.

Oh the irony.

[gencinjay]

I'll play 'devil's advocate' and I do NOT know any of what I'm asking about...

Assuming what you say is correct, was there or is there any agreement part of the Comerica Park approval for N number of ADA parking spaces? Comerica was built after ADA became the law.

Or N number of parking spaces, period?

Couldn't the well meaning city say, "You must provide 250 ADA parking spaces". Ilitch asks: "Why?" And the city says because we are demanding it of you before approving..."

Is this analogous to a Dunkin Donuts as part of zoning be required to provide N number of parking spaces of which X must be handicapped parking?

Certainly there could have been some type of agreement with the City as part of approval for construction. I would be surprised if there was though. ADA law is usually all that is requested and most garage owners would fight anything higher to avoid the revenue restrictions inherent with providing them.

[emu steve]

I love the optimism emu but you also need to take into account the reality of what Illitch does when talking about development and predicting the future. You might be developing a "Hall of Shame" but I can't help but roll my eyes at half the pro-Illitch things you trumpet here and I'm an optimist! Come back to the pack a bit and feel free to rub it in all of our faces when Illitch develops the CoPa apartments, HQ, Detroit Life Building, Blenheim, Women's Exchange Building, United Artists, Fine Arts Theater, Eddystone and follows through on the Madison Lenox site. If that happens ill gladly eat crow.

All I can say in 'my defense', I was not on this forum nor following Detroit when THOSE other buildings were in play.

I can only speak to the CURRENT round of development, the arena, garages, apartments, headquarters, office building, hotel, bus. school, etc.

EMU Steve and the Detroit Life building [[and others) don't belong in the same sentence [[I can't even find it on a map). Ditto the casinos. Ditto the Ren Cen, etc.

I am discussing the future [[and present) not the past.

Folks are conflating the past and the present. Different time. Different circumstances. Different results, logic suggests.

ONE OTHER POINT: I am NOT making any prediction how long it will take for the entire 45 blocks to be re-developed. Knowing what I know about Detroit it could be two decades.

So we have 'Phase I' which is about 10 - 12 buildings/structure hopefully completed or in progress by 2018.

The rest by Cass Tech, near say Temple/Lodge, etc. those will take a LONG time. There is NOTHING I can see that there is demand for 1,000 housing units west of the Masonic [[development in Brush Park will sap development west of Cass. I don't see both Brush Park and Cass West both 'catching [[development) fire.'

[southen]

All I can say in 'my defense', I was not on this forum nor following Detroit when THOSE other buildings were in play.

I can only speak to the CURRENT round of development, the arena, garages, apartments, headquarters, office building, hotel, bus. school, etc.

EMU Steve and the Detroit Life building [[and others) don't belong in the same sentence [[I can't even find it on a map). Ditto the casinos. Ditto the Ren Cen, etc.

I am discussing the future [[and present) not the past.

Folks are conflating the past and the present. Different time. Different circumstances. Different results, logic suggests.

ONE OTHER POINT: I am NOT making any prediction how long it will take for the entire 45 blocks to be re-developed. Knowing what I know about Detroit it could be two decades.

So we have 'Phase I' which is about 10 - 12 buildings/structure hopefully completed or in progress by 2018.

The rest by Cass Tech, near say Temple/Lodge, etc. those will take a LONG time. There is NOTHING I can see that there is demand for 1,000 housing units west of the Masonic [[development in Brush Park will sap development west of Cass. I don't see both Brush Park and Cass West both 'catching [[development) fire.'

Predicting things without considering the past of those involved doesn't suggest logic to me. That list I provided is just a sampling of the properties under Illitch's control that have fallen into neglect or have been demolished under his watch. It is a different time with different circumstances, but it is foolish to think they will be completely different. They could have been Dan Gilbert before Dan Gilbert. They made big promises with Comerica Park and never followed through. I appreciate your optimism, but the love for the guy and what he says he will do is a bit much, especially if you aren't too familiar with his past.

[Gistok]

Emu_steve... since you can't find the Detroit Life Building on a map... let me make it easy for you... it's on the same block as the Fox Building/Theatre...

And the Blenheim Apartments are next door... on the same block as the Palms Building/Fillmore Theatre next door.... both are on Park Ave. and have lain dormant for decades.

Not sure why they're not part of the vibrant theatre district... except perhaps because they're Ilitch owned...

10 years ago the Detroit Free Press used two phrases to describe the Ilitch's... "benign neglector"... and "flawed brilliance"...

[emu steve]

Was there a quid pro quo promise to rehab those building in return for something else?

How did the Ilitches acquire the buildings? For what expressed purposes?

[[Remembering that business people don't rehab buildings to 'lose their shirt' when doing so doesn't make financial sense.).

I honestly do not know the histories of those buildings. From what I can see they are impressive structures but is there a demand for them commercially?

[401don]

Was there a quid pro quo promise to rehab those building in return for something else?

How did the Ilitches acquire the buildings? For what expressed purposes?

[[Remembering that business people don't rehab buildings to 'lose their shirt' when doing so doesn't make financial sense.).

I honestly do not know the histories of those buildings. From what I can see they are impressive structures but is there a demand for them commercially?

From 2006:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...83mt4dugb1wxVg

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I love the optimism emu but you also need to take into account the reality of what Illitch does when talking about development and predicting the future. You might be developing a "Hall of Shame" but I can't help but roll my eyes at half the pro-Illitch things you trumpet here and I'm an optimist! Come back to the pack a bit and feel free to rub it in all of our faces when Illitch develops the CoPa apartments, HQ, Detroit Life Building, Blenheim, Women's Exchange Building, United Artists, Fine Arts Theater, Eddystone and follows through on the Madison Lenox site. If that happens ill gladly eat crow.

I'd be quite happy [[and surprised) to see any ONE of these completed.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Was there a quid pro quo promise to rehab those building in return for something else?

How did the Ilitches acquire the buildings? For what expressed purposes?

[[Remembering that business people don't rehab buildings to 'lose their shirt' when doing so doesn't make financial sense.).

I honestly do not know the histories of those buildings. From what I can see they are impressive structures but is there a demand for them commercially?

Perhaps there is no demand for them commercially. But there apparently is commercial demand for the dozens of other downtown buildings that have been, or are in the process of being, renovated and occupied. Now that would be odd, indeed.

[swingline]

I love the optimism emu but you also need to take into account the reality of what Illitch does when talking about development and predicting the future. You might be developing a "Hall of Shame" but I can't help but roll my eyes at half the pro-Illitch things you trumpet here and I'm an optimist! Come back to the pack a bit and feel free to rub it in all of our faces when Illitch develops the CoPa apartments, HQ, Detroit Life Building, Blenheim, Women's Exchange Building, United Artists, Fine Arts Theater, Eddystone and follows through on the Madison Lenox site. If that happens ill gladly eat crow.

An excellent re-cap of the development fails of Olympia Development. The next non-arena/stadium related development by this organization [[which owns dozens of CBD buildings) will be the first in 30 years.

Inexplicably, I'm still optimistic about the District Detroit and everything that Olympia Development has promised. They are not really promises in the legally binding sense though are they.

[emu steve]

From 2006:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...83mt4dugb1wxVg

Am I correct that the Ilitches are building a new headquarters building on Woodward en lieu of rehabbing this building?????

I am NOT saying that it is a one for one 'trade' type decision, but IF the Ilitches did not build a new headquarters building on Woodward, would they rehab this building to meet their growing needs?

If is ALSO true, that one building would get done [[the one on Woodward) and the one NOT get done? That is, there isn't the need for both? Like a family deciding to eat out or put gas in the SUV. Can only spend the twenty bucks once...

One thing which strikes me: The date on that article: 11/2006. Lest we forget 09/2008 happened and turned the commercial world upside down...

What might have made sense in Nov. 2006 no longer made sense 24 months later.

[[next month I'm going to Vegas for 'March Madness". There are several huge projects which were 1/2 built in 2008 and stopped DEAD. And had not be resumed since.)

[ABetterDetroit]

Am I correct that the Ilitches are building a new headquarters building on Woodward en lieu of rehabbing this building?????

I am NOT saying that it is a one for one 'trade' type decision, but IF the Ilitches did not build a new headquarters building on Woodward, would they rehab this building to meet their growing needs?

If is ALSO true, that one building would get done [[the one on Woodward) and the one NOT get done? That is, there isn't the need for both? Like a family deciding to eat out or put gas in the SUV. Can only spend the twenty bucks once...

One thing which strikes me: The date on that article: 11/2006. Lest we forget 09/2008 happened and turned the commercial world upside down...

What might have made sense in Nov. 2006 no longer made sense 24 months later.

[[next month I'm going to Vegas for 'March Madness". There are several huge projects which were 1/2 built in 2008 and stopped DEAD. And had not be resumed since.)

Time to throw out your 2009 calendar Steve, the one your going to need is 2016. Once you wrap your
head around that it is indeed 2016...

When you come to town this summer for your Tiger games take a long slow walk around town and see what everyone else besides Mike has done in just the last five years. You are going to be shocked at the changes. Continuing to argue that the economic situation has not been good enough for a billionaire has already been proven to be ridiculous.

[southen]

Am I correct that the Ilitches are building a new headquarters building on Woodward en lieu of rehabbing this building?????

I am NOT saying that it is a one for one 'trade' type decision, but IF the Ilitches did not build a new headquarters building on Woodward, would they rehab this building to meet their growing needs?

If is ALSO true, that one building would get done [[the one on Woodward) and the one NOT get done? That is, there isn't the need for both? Like a family deciding to eat out or put gas in the SUV. Can only spend the twenty bucks once...

One thing which strikes me: The date on that article: 11/2006. Lest we forget 09/2008 happened and turned the commercial world upside down...

What might have made sense in Nov. 2006 no longer made sense 24 months later.

[[next month I'm going to Vegas for 'March Madness". There are several huge projects which were 1/2 built in 2008 and stopped DEAD. And had not be resumed since.)

He promised to redevelop that as well as other buildings/parcels when he was given tax dollars for Comerica Park. He did not. Also, you can't use the meltdown two years after this announcement as an excuse for not following through. Does it really take two years to make any progress with a building the size of Detroit Life when you are a billionaire? He has let multiple buildings rot without proper protection to the point that the redevelopment of them will cost much more than it would have. He has not been the great steward of Detroit as you think. Most of all of his moves are at the detriment of the built environment in this city but nicely line his pockets.